Just popped into Bass Direct.

[kwmlondon]

Well, I have this thing about vintage instruments - if it's old e.g. 70s, 80s, if it's not got loads of wear then I'm not really going to want to pick it up myself. I'm always going to be drawn to the most beaten-up and worn-out basses in the shop because those are the ones that people have taken to gig after gig, week after week. You don't do that with a crappy instrument, you move it on and get a better one. Whenever I see a pristine 70s Jazz or Precision I feel no desire to play it because nobody else has wanted to play it.

 

Where have all the Fenders gone?

Well, loads will have been "modded" over the years and bits lost or destroyed. I'd say a high percentage of Fender necks will have warped and been replaced - one of the things about Fenders (the best IMO) is that you can swap things around. Most are probably sitting in someone's bedroom where they get picked up occasionally but the owner won't want to get rid of them because they spent years gigging with them and will never part with something so personally valuable.

[wateroftyne]

20 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

Well, I have this thing about vintage instruments - if it's old e.g. 70s, 80s, if it's not got loads of wear then I'm not really going to want to pick it up myself. I'm always going to be drawn to the most beaten-up and worn-out basses in the shop because those are the ones that people have taken to gig after gig, week after week.

I’m glad I don’t subscribe to that theory… 😄
 

 

[Woodinblack]

50 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

Well, I have this thing about vintage instruments - if it's old e.g. 70s, 80s, if it's not got loads of wear then I'm not really going to want to pick it up myself. I'm always going to be drawn to the most beaten-up and worn-out basses in the shop because those are the ones that people have taken to gig after gig, week after week. You don't do that with a crappy instrument, you move it on and get a better one. Whenever I see a pristine 70s Jazz or Precision I feel no desire to play it because nobody else has wanted to play it.

 

I don't think that is necessarily true.

Some people take a bass week after week to a gig, throw it in the back of the car in a  bag, play it, drop it, throw it around then put it back in the bag, lob it back in the car, get home, throw it in the corner. Its an object, they don't care.

Some people take a bass week after a week to a gig, keep it in a case, take it out when they need it, play it, wipe it down afterwards, put it back in the case, take it home and store it. It has value to them and they want to look after it.

 

I have picked up guitars that were a couple of years old that look like they were used to dig a patio, and ones that are over 20 years ago that looked like they came out of the factory yesterday. Its more to do with how they were looked after.

 

The oldest guitars are only 70 years old, there are playable good condition musical instruments that are 4/500 years old.

[bloke_zero]

9 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Some people take a bass week after a week to a gig, keep it in a case, take it out when they need it, play it, wipe it down afterwards, put it back in the case, take it home and store it. It has value to them and they want to look after it.

Absolutely - my dad was that kind - I inherited an 80's telecaster from him in just that kind of shape. Fingerboard clean, finish good - kept really carefully. I try and keep it the same way.

[kwmlondon]

17 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I don't think that is necessarily true.

Some people take a bass week after week to a gig, throw it in the back of the car in a  bag, play it, drop it, throw it around then put it back in the bag, lob it back in the car, get home, throw it in the corner. Its an object, they don't care.

Some people take a bass week after a week to a gig, keep it in a case, take it out when they need it, play it, wipe it down afterwards, put it back in the case, take it home and store it. It has value to them and they want to look after it.

 

I have picked up guitars that were a couple of years old that look like they were used to dig a patio, and ones that are over 20 years ago that looked like they came out of the factory yesterday. Its more to do with how they were looked after.

 

The oldest guitars are only 70 years old, there are playable good condition musical instruments that are 4/500 years old.

I know what you mean, but when a neck is worn, that's not down to lack of care, that's years and years of a hand playing it. There's a difference between battered and uncared for and worn through regular use and I just find myself drawn towards an instrument that's been played a lot. It may even be romantic nonsense - I am only human!

[Mokl]

Aren't the MV basses plek'd? That makes an enormous difference in my (limited) experience of Plek'd basses. Not saying the 70s bass wasn't a bit of a duffer, but if still on original frets it's probably a few ropey fret dresses down the road by now. Just a thought.

[BigRedX]

I don't get this romanticising of wear. And I'm sure that if Gibson and Fender had known just how rough the "rock n roll lifestyle" would be on the finishes of their instruments they'd have picked something more hard wearing than nitro in the first place.

 

And at what point does wear get in the way of the playability of an instrument and when it does what should you do about it?

 

Case in point my Red Gus G3 Bass will be 25 years old next year. That will probably make it "vintage". It stated off as one of the display/demo models that Simon took to various musical instrument shows and trade fairs, and at some point after the end of 2001 it was sold to the person who owned it before me. For the next 5 or so years it must have had a very hard life because when I bought it, second hand, early in 2008 both the bass and the Hiscox case it came in were severely worn. The purple/green flip paint finish had chipped off in multiple places including the back of the neck which made it somewhat uncomfortable to play. Some parts were missing and others had been replaced with non-standard items.

 

Having decided that overall the bass was a keeper, I got in touch with Simon at GusGuitars to find out what my options were. Due to the way the flip paint works it would be impossible to retouch the worn areas, and the only options would be to leave it as it was an try and smooth out the chips on the neck to make them less uncomfortable, or strip it back to the primer coat and apply a new finish. Since I wasn't particularly taken by the colour (this was the main reason why I didn't buy the bass when it was "new" back in 2001) I decided to have it refinished in Candy Apple Red and at the same time have the whole bass refurbished, which included new chrome for all the metalwork and re-profiling the aluminium horns that were somewhat out of shape. (How on earth had that happened?) When I got the bass back apart from still having the same old worn case and some slight wear to the frets it looked like a brand new instrument. For the past 15 years this has mostly been my main bass and has done well over 100 gigs, and while it has picked up a ding or two, it is not showing a fraction of the wear it displayed when I first got it.

 

Has the refinish and refurbishment affected the value? In this case it has probably made it worth slightly more. Having the work done by the person who made the bass originally probably helps. What might count against it, is that being the first 5-string bass Gus made the instrument in it's original condition is well-documented on the Gus website, and of course it not longer exists in that state...

 

[kwmlondon]

On 08/07/2023 at 10:16, BigRedX said:

I don't get this romanticising of wear. And I'm sure that if Gibson and Fender had known just how rough the "rock n roll lifestyle" would be on the finishes of their instruments they'd have picked something more hard wearing than nitro in the first place.

 

And at what point does wear get in the way of the playability of an instrument and when it does what should you do about it?

 

Case in point my Red Gus G3 Bass will be 25 years old next year. That will probably make it "vintage". It stated off as one of the display/demo models that Simon took to various musical instrument shows and trade fairs, and at some point after the end of 2001 it was sold to the person who owned it before me. For the next 5 or so years it must have had a very hard life because when I bought it, second hand, early in 2008 both the bass and the Hiscox case it came in were severely worn. The purple/green flip paint finish had chipped off in multiple places including the back of the neck which made it somewhat uncomfortable to play. Some parts were missing and others had been replaced with non-standard items.

 

Having decided that overall the bass was a keeper, I got in touch with Simon at GusGuitars to find out what my options were. Due to the way the flip paint works it would be impossible to retouch the worn areas, and the only options would be to leave it as it was an try and smooth out the chips on the neck to make them less uncomfortable, or strip it back to the primer coat and apply a new finish. Since I wasn't particularly taken by the colour (this was the main reason why I didn't buy the bass when it was "new" back in 2001) I decided to have it refinished in Candy Apple Red and at the same time have the whole bass refurbished, which included new chrome for all the metalwork and re-profiling the aluminium horns that were somewhat out of shape. (How on earth had that happened?) When I got the bass back apart from still having the same old worn case and some slight wear to the frets it looked like a brand new instrument. For the past 15 years this has mostly been my main bass and has done well over 100 gigs, and while it has picked up a ding or two, it is not showing a fraction of the wear it displayed when I first got it.

 

Has the refinish and refurbishment affected the value? In this case it has probably made it worth slightly more. Having the work done by the person who made the bass originally probably helps. What might count against it, is that being the first 5-string bass Gus made the instrument in it's original condition is well-documented on the Gus website, and of course it not longer exists in that state...

 

I think Gus basses are some of the most beautiful instruments ever made. Never seen one in the flesh.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, kwmlondon said:

I think Gus basses are some of the most beautiful instruments ever made. Never seen one in the flesh.

 

Thanks. In Isolation have a gig booked at The Fidler's Elbow in December. Come along and say "hello". I'll be using my CAR Gus.

[kwmlondon]

19 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 

Thanks. In Isolation have a gig booked at The Fidler's Elbow in December. Come along and say "hello". I'll be using my CAR Gus.

I may well do. I'm following this thread so post date up nearer the time and I'll try and get up that way. 

[Sibob]

Essentially, Modern Vintage (the brand) put out some excellent basses. The MVP62 was amazing and I was gutted to sell it on (had to buy a house didn't I), but would love one of their 70's spec P's at some point in the future. Probably the Mocha one haha.

 

Si

[Linus27]

I had a 1977 Fender Precision and a 1973 Telecaster Bass. The 1977 Precision was a thing of beauty, it played and sounded phenomenal and I wish i had it now still. The 1973 Telecaster bass sounded huge but was basically a tree trunk slightly shaped into something that looked like a bass and had no ability to be setup or adjusted. It was so heavy and chunky that you needed a rest after playing it for more than 5 minutes.

 

I also have a Japanese 1986 ESP 400 Series Jazz which was made in the same factory as the Japanese Fender's and it is the best bass I have ever played. My other Japanese 80's Fender's are also the best basses I have owned. I would love to own a genuine 70's Fender again just to have in my collection but I won't pay silly money for one.

[bubinga5]

On 12/07/2023 at 14:17, Sibob said:

Essentially, Modern Vintage (the brand) put out some excellent basses. The MVP62 was amazing and I was gutted to sell it on (had to buy a house didn't I), but would love one of their 70's spec P's at some point in the future. Probably the Mocha one haha.

 

Si

Every one ive played has been an excellent.