Controlled volume boosts

[uk_lefty]

Is there a rule of thumb or magic formula for keeping volumes under control? I've got various effects that I need to use to add texture and make up for one guitar dropping out that all come with their own volume boost. It confused the sound man no end at my last gig, even though I had told him, so I ended up having to use the boost for the whole set after he lowered my volume so much it was the only way to be heard. 

 

My guitarist says he's been told 3db of boost is enough, and he has a pedal that tells him where 3db is. Is there a similar magic formula for bass? What would be the best way to set that across pedals? Is it a case of get it right through my rig at low volumes at home then it's all ok? Or is it something that can only really be done through the gig rig and PA at full volume?

 

Thanks!

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I've got various effects that I need to use to add texture and make up for one guitar dropping out that all come with their own volume boost. It confused the sound man no end at my last gig, even though I had told him, so I ended up having to use the boost for the whole set after he lowered my volume so much it was the only way to be heard

Two issues here.

 

You probably don't have your pedals under control as well as they need to be.

 

Your soundman has a different idea from you about how much bass should be stepping up when a guitar drops out.

 

If you get the boosts under control first you may not have the 2nd issue but I am picking you weren't all that overbearing so maybe you will.

 

Another way to go about it would be to untity gain all your pedals and have a separate overall boost capability. Is that what you were meaning to ask about?

 

To do that you really have to have gig levels going on for pedals that come alive at volume. Lows jump out of hiding when the loud knob gets employed. Filters don't trip right until driven. You know the drill by now?

 

Can you "thicken the tone" without getting any louder? Is the $64k question.

 

Then you can boost a little or a little more with a Sansamp multi channel set for 3 levels of clean. Regular,+1.759dB, +3.284dB.

 

If the pedals won't comply with unity then you could set up the Sansamp

Regular

-1.874dB for Naughty Pedal 1 OR 2

-3.587dB for Naughty pedal 1 AND Naughty pedal 2.

 

And if you had a Deluxe version Sansamp you could run Bank2 at an overall boost but otherwise same differentials.

[Downunderwonder]

Btw @uk_lefty your guitar man is correct that a 3dB boost is about all you can get away with before some sound folk will automatically see red that you are "stomping all over their finely crafted mix", while neglecting to notice it actually sounds ok with the missing guitar.

 

On the other hand you could have been stomping over the remaining mix without knowing.

 

It is near impossible to set a 3dB gain by ear and if you did then having two pedals on would put you at +6dB. For this reason I suggest getting them to work at unity or close.

 

If you have access to a mixer you can use your headphones at home and it should be quite representative of what FOH gets from your DI. Assuming you usually DI.

 

You have to bear in mind the lows may come over very differently by the time FOH have finished with them and probably less zing too. Your main concern is tweaking gains rather than intricacies of tone. Hopefully they are still set where they would normally be. Leave them be and put up with the hokey tone.

 

Play away and get the input gain on your mixer channel well up so it is only flicking last green on a really heavy thwack. Don't blow your ears out in the headphones! Probably best take them off for next step if you haven't already...

 

Kick in pedals and see just how bad you are.

 

If you can get them functional only going into red on the heaviest thwack you have got it to 3dB.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Downunderwonder

[Boodang]

I control all my effects pedals through the EHX tri mixer. 3 parallel channels each with input and output gain. That way I can keep the gain structure and thus volume, under control. Some of my pedals are sensitive but with the mixer I can make sure the signals are not too hot for them, and then I can set the return gain to where I need it so no jumps or dips in volume when I kick them in. 

[uk_lefty]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

If you have access to a mixer you can use your headphones at home and it should be quite representative of what FOH gets from your DI. Assuming you usually DI.

Excellent tips, thank you. I'll run it all through my mixer tomorrow. This is all quite new to me in the sense that I used to use multi fx and have things under control. I've now got more individual pedals (better sound, more time practicing less time programming) and this I think is where my volume issues are coming from. I've bought some tiny sticker "gems" from a craft shop, seeing my daughter use them in her artworks, and will use these to colour code where I want my settings on the more sensitive pedals.

[fretmeister]

I never boost behind solos, and never turn on a pedal just for that reason either.

 

I either enjoy the space, or I re-write the bass part to make the arrangement work better for when the mix sounds "thin".

I do a variety of things but aim to build the bass part as the guitar solo is building. Assuming 4/4 time - roots on 2 beats in the bar, then rising to all 4 beats to add some momentum, then maybe some octaves linking the root and octave with the kick and snare, and then make the part a walking line to get up the neck a bit

 

The order of all that depends on the song and the solo - it could all the other way round if that suits better.

 

But no amount of pedals can fix an arrangement that needs improving.

[Downunderwonder]

37 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I never boost behind solos, and never turn on a pedal just for that reason either.

 

I either enjoy the space, or I re-write the bass part to make the arrangement work better for when the mix sounds "thin".

I do a variety of things but aim to build the bass part as the guitar solo is building. Assuming 4/4 time - roots on 2 beats in the bar, then rising to all 4 beats to add some momentum, then maybe some octaves linking the root and octave with the kick and snare, and then make the part a walking line to get up the neck a bit

 

The order of all that depends on the song and the solo - it could all the other way round if that suits better.

 

But no amount of pedals can fix an arrangement that needs improving.

Dif'rent strokes.

[uk_lefty]

58 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I never boost behind solos, and never turn on a pedal just for that reason either.

 

I either enjoy the space, or I re-write the bass part to make the arrangement work better for when the mix sounds "thin".

I do a variety of things but aim to build the bass part as the guitar solo is building. Assuming 4/4 time - roots on 2 beats in the bar, then rising to all 4 beats to add some momentum, then maybe some octaves linking the root and octave with the kick and snare, and then make the part a walking line to get up the neck a bit

 

The order of all that depends on the song and the solo - it could all the other way round if that suits better.

 

But no amount of pedals can fix an arrangement that needs improving.

Thank you, fully understand your point and for some scenarios I completely agree. 

[Boodang]

7 hours ago, fretmeister said:

But no amount of pedals can fix an arrangement that needs improving.

... and no amount of arrangement can fix pedals that need improving!

[uk_lefty]

On 09/07/2023 at 23:55, Downunderwonder said:

Play away and get the input gain on your mixer channel well up so it is only flicking last green on a really heavy thwack. Don't blow your ears out in the headphones! Probably best take them off for next step if you haven't already

Tried this last night. The mixer isn't very sophisticated so I'm not sure it's perfect but I think I've managed to get to an even volume across the board by setting my DI Pedal to 12 o'clock then setting levels on all other pedals. It's my Marshall Jackhammer OD/ Distortion that's causing the issue. I need only the tiniest, tiniest smidge of volume on that pedal, and the volume and gain are on concentric pots so I have to be v careful. I've got it where I want it for Saturday without too much fuss though, thanks for the advice on the mixer, would never have thought of that!