Using an EQ pedal...for vocals?

[Al Krow]

A singer I work closely with is a soprano and she finds her vocal strength/power/volume considerably diminishes below a certain pitch, which is in an alto's comfort zone (165Hz to 330 Hz range). We deal with this with a lot of our material simply by taking the key we are playing in up to suit her vocal register, but there are some songs that span quite a pitch range and taking them up inkey would make the top end too high.

 

We don't have the luxury of a sound engineer for our gigs and making volume adjustments on the fly and trying to dial that in just for the low register and then cutting back when she hits the higher notes is not going to be practical in a live setting. So ideally we'd like to come up with a "set and forget" option to give her a volume boost just in her lower range.

 

Our desk is decent, but not amazing in terms of its channel strip EQ, which is 3 band. We do have a variable mids-boost/cut which we could set at 200Hz and maybe give that a 3dB to 6dB boost - will be giving that a try. I'm a little reluctant to be cutting the mids for the other instruments (other than maybe the kick drum) as we would lose the mid-punch for guitar & bass. Just also wondering if an EQ pedal (e.g. the Boss EQ200) would add some value given that it will offer multiple EQ points?

 

Be very interested to get your thoughts if this is an issue you've come across and solved - I'm aware a fair few on BC have far more in-depth sound engineering expertise than I do! 

[Dad3353]

Maybe a little difficult to 'sell', but would singing coaching from an experienced vocal tutor be an option..? Most vocal 'loudness' issues can be addressed with breath control etc, whatever the vocal range. Just an idea...

As a pedal option, how about a compressor, set to reduce the more powerful upper register, allowing the PA to bring up the quieter lower range..? 

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Maybe a little difficult to 'sell', but would singing coaching from an experienced vocal tutor be an option..? Most vocal 'loudness' issues can be addressed with breath control etc, whatever the vocal range. Just an idea...

As a pedal option, how about a compressor, set to reduce the more powerful upper register, allowing the PA to bring up the quieter lower range..? 

 

Yup understand where you're coming from, but she's a very experienced and formally trained singer with plenty of stage experience, and also a professional vocal coach herself 😊

 

The issue with a compressor is its impact on dynamic range and potentially also vocal timbre - the ability for her to let fly at the top end is not something we want to lose.  My sense from the research I've done is that EQ'ing vocals rather than applying an across the board compression seems to be a more common route, but generally cutting rather than boosting certain frequencies to get an overall better vocal sound is the more common approach, which unfortunately doesn't address the specific feature we have here.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Al Krow

[MuddBass]

49 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A singer I work closely with is a soprano and she finds her vocal strength/power/volume considerably diminishes below a certain pitch, which is in an alto's comfort zone (165Hz to 330 Hz range). We deal with this with a lot of our material simply by taking the key we are playing in up to suit her vocal register, but there are some songs that span quite a pitch range and taking them up inkey would make the top end too high.

 

We don't have the luxury of a sound engineer for our gigs and making volume adjustments on the fly and trying to dial that in just for the low register and then cutting back when she hits the higher notes is not going to be practical in a live setting. So ideally we'd like to come up with a "set and forget" option to give her a volume boost just in her lower range.

 

Our desk is decent, but not amazing in terms of its channel strip EQ, which is 3 band. We do have a variable mids-boost/cut which we could set at 200Hz and maybe give that a 3dB to 6dB boost - will be giving that a try. I'm a little reluctant to be cutting the mids for the other instruments (other than maybe the kick drum) as we would lose the mid-punch for guitar & bass. Just also wondering if an EQ pedal (e.g. the Boss EQ200) would add some value given that it will offer multiple EQ points?

 

Be very interested to get your thoughts if this is an issue you've come across and solved - I'm aware a fair few on BC have far more in-depth sound engineering expertise than I do! 

 

EQ and/or mulitband compressor might work for one or two songs - so worth experimenting a little. However, this might be a lot of faffing about when other easier and 'less destructive' soloutions might work. For example (you've probably already discussed this), but can Backing Vocals support her with certain passages?

 

 

 

 

[Al Krow]

We do have male BVs, but some songs e.g. the intro to Fleetwood Mac Go your own way don't really lend themselves to that with our set up. 

 

Hoping that once we've come up with a solution there shouldn't be too much faffing though ie it will be a permanent "set and forget".

[BigRedX]

Could work. Time for a technical rehearsal to see if it does.

 

For a situation like this, you'll probably be much better off with a decent parametric EQ with at least 4 bands all with level frequency and Q controls, or a graphic with a lot more bands than those on the Boss so you can hone in on just the problem frequencies.

[Osiris]

43 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Maybe a little difficult to 'sell', but would singing coaching from an experienced vocal tutor be an option..? Most vocal 'loudness' issues can be addressed with breath control etc, whatever the vocal range. Just an idea...

As a pedal option, how about a compressor, set to reduce the more powerful upper register, allowing the PA to bring up the quieter lower range..? 

 

Come on Dad, don't ever mention the C word around Al Krow... 

 

Spoiler

Compression 🤣🤣🤣

 

...that way madness lies. 

[Dad3353]

21 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

... Fleetwood Mac Go your own way...

 

That particular song could be bumped up a tone, or tone and a half, without becoming too 'squeaky', to get the intro into range, I would think..? No..?

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 

Come on Dad, don't ever mention the C word around Al Krow... 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Compression 🤣🤣🤣

 

...that way madness lies. 

 

If I was doing the FOH, that's how I would resolve a 'dynamics' issue... 

[Al Krow]

5 minutes ago, Osiris said:

 

Come on Dad, don't ever mention the C word around Al Krow... 

 

  Hide contents

Compression 🤣🤣🤣

 

...that way madness lies. 

Now why did I somehow expect you to be rousting from your slumber at the very mention of the C word? 😅

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Could work. Time for a technical rehearsal to see if it does.

 

For a situation like this, you'll probably be much better off with a decent parametric EQ with at least 4 bands all with level frequency and Q controls, or a graphic with a lot more bands than those on the Boss so you can hone in on just the problem frequencies.

 

Cheers BRX, that's helpful. The only thing that comes to mind is the Source Audio EQ2 with that sort of capability in a pedal. 

[NHM]

our singer, who is an alto, uses a TC Electronic Mic Mechanic pedal on her mic. This has a preset (non-tweakable) 'enhancement' switch which really brightens her lower frequencies - for a preset device it sounds pretty decent. Also it has a (controllable) reverb and delay built in, so we've found it a useful solution to get her better sitting on the mix.

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Cheers BRX, that's helpful. The only thing that comes to mind is the Source Audio EQ2 with that sort of capability in a pedal. 

 

IME most pedals are aimed at guitar and bass instruments and although there are some companies like TC Electronic who make pedals for vocals, however you will need something with a mic level input (which guitar pedals don't have) and in XLR format.

 

All the serious stuff to do what you want will be in the form of rack mounting gear and would be plumbed into your mixer using a channel insert.

[BassAdder60]

the Behringer Feedback Destroyer worked for a singer that always struggled with volume and feedback when trying to boost her vocals. It was an amazing bit of kit that killed off offending frequencies and allowed you to increase the volume and non offending frequencies to gain better volume 

Cost around £200 in rack format 

Edited July 13, 2023 by BassAdder60

[Brucegill]

Not sure if it would help, but OBNE have a pedal for vocal FX, maybe that could help, though maybe ott. 
 

https://oldbloodnoise.com/pedals/p/maw-xlr-pedal

 

and Eventide Mixing Link could help as it has a FX loop and switchable 

 

https://www.eventideaudio.com/pedals/mixinglink/

 

 

[JoeEvans]

If you put the mic into a pre-amp on stage, you could then run it through standard FX pedals before sending it to the PA. I've done that with *ahem* accordion in the past and it's worked really well. The ART Tube Pre is great and seems to add a little je ne sais quois of its own too.

That way you could take your pick of classy EQ pedals.

[Downunderwonder]

I bet she is a mic hog.

 

Mic hogs use all the gain they can get out of the mic and then overpower it in their strong register. If the engineer lowers the gain so they don't blow it out then they are left lacking down low.

 

Mic control. Mic control. Mic control.

 

Singers' dynamic range is higher than what the electronics can reproduce, something's gotta give. No mic control, no free fully transparent compression.

 

[Bolo]

Perhaps overly obvious, but why not pick songs that are nearer to her comfortable range? 

[Nail Soup]

Low-tech suggestion: Could it be handled by moving her mouth nearer the mic for those parts? Mic technique I guess.

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, Bolo said:

Perhaps overly obvious, but why not pick songs that are nearer to her comfortable range? 

 

Sure - as you say it's an obvious thing and therefore something that we very much already do. I'd say 90% of our songs fall into her comfortable range category because we also make sure to change key where that's an easy fix.

But in 4 hours+ of set material there are going to be a few songs where the vocal range goes outside her (or frankly most singer's) comfort zone. Equally if she's depping for other bands then there may be a few songs that aren't ideal for her vocal register.

So if we can find a technical fix for this, it also opens up more some excellent material for our band which straddle the alto and soprano ranges.

So it's about widening the choice of rep that we're able to do.

[BassAdder60]

Look at the Helicon foot pedal series for vocalists 

Edited July 14, 2023 by BassAdder60

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

Low-tech suggestion: Could it be handled by moving her mouth nearer the mic for those parts? Mic technique I guess.

Mic technique aka Mic Control, very likely lacking.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 13/07/2023 at 13:21, Al Krow said:

 

Cheers BRX, that's helpful. The only thing that comes to mind is the Source Audio EQ2 with that sort of capability in a pedal. 

 

On 13/07/2023 at 23:42, JoeEvans said:

If you put the mic into a pre-amp on stage, you could then run it through standard FX pedals before sending it to the PA. I've done that with *ahem* accordion in the past and it's worked really well. The ART Tube Pre is great and seems to add a little je ne sais quois of its own too.

That way you could take your pick of classy EQ pedals.

Sound pieces of advice! 

[Al Krow]

On 14/07/2023 at 10:29, Nail Soup said:

Low-tech suggestion: Could it be handled by moving her mouth nearer the mic for those parts? Mic technique I guess.

 

On 14/07/2023 at 21:27, Downunderwonder said:

Mic technique aka Mic Control, very likely lacking.

 

Cheers guys - if it were only so simple a fix! 😊

 

She's actually got superb mic control as might be expected from a professional singer doing both solo and band work and which I saw in action at the wedding we were playing at on Sat.

 

The one thing I was able to adjust on the desk over the weekend, was to give her mid EQ a boost at around 200Hz, which is bang smack in the middle of her lower vocal range. I'm going to bake that into the desk settings going forward and then hopefully we can put in some time for a technical rehearsal in the near future as @BigRedX quite rightly suggested.

[Al Krow]

On 13/07/2023 at 12:35, BigRedX said:

IME most pedals are aimed at guitar and bass instruments and although there are some companies like TC Electronic who make pedals for vocals, however you will need something with a mic level input (which guitar pedals don't have) and in XLR format.

 

On 13/07/2023 at 22:42, JoeEvans said:

If you put the mic into a pre-amp on stage, you could then run it through standard FX pedals before sending it to the PA. I've done that with *ahem* accordion in the past and it's worked really well. The ART Tube Pre is great and seems to add a little je ne sais quois of its own too.

That way you could take your pick of classy EQ pedals.

 

@JoeEvans - nice solution to the very valid point @BigRedX raised about needing a mic level input / XLR format. 

 

I've spotted that several EQ pedals also provide an EQ boost which could be a neat way of getting there with one piece of kit and keeping costs/and the amount of additional gear down?

 

I note that the Source Audio EQ2 has a +12dB volume boost and also provides a combination graphic and parametric equalizer with 10 fully adjustable frequency bands and up to 8 onboard presets (And the ability to simultaneously run two tailored EQ settings which can be independently routed to either stereo output).