Template Agreement for buying, sharing and splitting cost of PA - has anyone got one I could use?

[fleabag]

6 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Has the rest of the band agreed this? Your expectation may not match reality. 

 

The guitarist owns the PA we use, I don't expect to be paying to fix it if any of it requires repair unless I'm personally responsible for breaking it.

 

 

Yes it was agreed.  The whole band uses it, and if it goes pop,  we will all chip in for any repair.

[Count Bassy]

6 hours ago, TimR said:

The guitarist owns the PA we use, I don't expect to be paying to fix it if any of it requires repair unless I'm personally responsible for breaking it.

In which case he should perhaps be charging the rest of you a hire fee for every gig.

[Dan Dare]

14 hours ago, TimR said:

Precisely because if this situation occurs the remaining members are left having to find a brand new bit of kit as well as a new band member. 

 

Great for the person jumping ship. Not great for those left behind. 

 

And? The gear was mine. I was free to do as I wished with it. "Brand new"? They could have (and did) bought something used. Had they bought mine, that too would have been used. Actually, I didn't "jump ship". We agreed mutually that I should go - musical differences and all that... Don't you think you're clutching at straws?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Dan Dare

[tauzero]

1 minute ago, Dan Dare said:

 

And? The gear was mine. I was free to do as I wished with it. "Brand new"? They could have (and did) bought something used. Had they bought mine, that too would have been used. Actually, I didn't "jump ship". We agreed mutually that I should go - musical differences and al that... Don't you think you're clutching at straws?

 

Have you not encountered TimR before? 😁

[Dan Dare]

1 minute ago, tauzero said:

 

Have you not encountered TimR before? 😁

 

Oh yes. See my previous comment about his loving a barney on here. I'm just amusing myself. I don't really care what he thinks or does.

[TimR]

3 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

And? The gear was mine. I was free to do as I wished with it. "Brand new"? They could have (and did) bought something used. Had they bought mine, that too would have been used. Actually, I didn't "jump ship". We agreed mutually that I should go - musical differences and all that... Don't you think you're clutching at straws?

 

I'm not arguing. I just don't see the point of splitting up a system and then having hassle later buying bits when someone leaves. 

 

What happens if you get a dep in? Do you then have to hire the missing part from the person not playing?

 

I've seen this happen before. I had a friend with a pair of speakers in his house for years. Couldn't sell them and couldn't use them. 

[lozkerr]

12 hours ago, Angelus said:

I own our current PA, desk, most of the back line, cables and lights. I also bought a crew cab, ULEZ compliant van for us. 

Similar here. I own the PA and lights, although my elderly Peavey mixer is usually replaced by the Behringer XR-18 another band member has. I keep the Peavey in the van in case the Behringer decides to sulk, which it has done once or twice.

 

For me, it's a no-brainer. If we're playing somewhere where PA and lights are provided, I just rock up in my own car with backline, unless that's provided as well, plus pedalboard and basses. If we need the PA and lights, everyone chips in for the van hire. It's worked well so far.

 

And if it all goes tits-up, I will still have a complete PA and lighting rig to use with my next band.

[Gasman]

Sorry for the delayed response, had a mental, no, dental appointment this morning, NHS so unmissable! 

 

There seems to be an even split between those who recommend that the gear is owned by just one person (not necessarily in the band) and those that feel that a shared purchase followed by depreciation calculations to cover departing member pay-offs and (possibly) incoming member buy-ins is best. So what ought we to do?

 

Our old PA was owned by the singer with no charge to use it or buy-in payment required from our BVs guy and my sax set, so that was a clear type 1, with no drums, guitars, bass going through it.

 

Our new PA is now a ownership hybrid. The purchased twin tower Bose set up cost £3000. That excludes the Bluetooth mixer, iPad, cables and drum mics, which the guitarist is loaning to the band free until such time as he leaves, and the active fold back speakers that formed part of the old PA, owned by the singer. All instruments will go through it...

 

We have all dobbed in £600 towards the Bose items.

 

As you can see, this has the makings of a classic flustercluck when people join or leave...

 

I’m minded to focus on just the Bose gear and propose an agreement based on @TimR ‘s depreciation formula, as tbh the mixer,  mics, cables, iPad and fold back kit could be replaced easily enough from gear already owned in the background by other band members, or replaced with new stuff at a relatively modest price compared with the Bose setup.

 

It’s still a potential ‘mare, but we’re all reasonable people (I think!)🤓

 

Oh bu##er, belay that, I’m told that our rhythm guitarist has just handed in his notice!🤪

Edited July 17, 2023 by Gasman
Extra info and grammar

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Gasman said:

Oh bu##er, belay that, I’m told that our rhythm guitarist has just handed in his notice!🤪

 

Let's hope he isn't expecting his full £600 back...

 

Unless you've not bought the gear yet. 

[Gasman]

We've all paid, so its a good test situation - can we find a replacement member who's prepared to cough up £600? Why he paid his share then decided to leave (or maybe the other way round) is slightly baffling... 

[tauzero]

Although I'm in the single member ownership class, I wouldn't advocate it over shared ownership - which is the best fit for you is going to depend on many things. You've made a big investment for which shared ownership is a good way of spreading the cost but could be troublesome in the future. With a member leaving, as I see it, there's three ways of approaching it.

1. Split the cost of buying him out among the remaining members and keep the PA owned just by those members
2. Have any new member buy in an entire share immediately
3. Have any new member buy in gradually from gig proceeds. If they're using the PA from the very start, depreciation doesn't come into it.

Option 2 would be the least likely to work as it's a steep buy-in.

 

I suppose option 4 is carry on without a rhythm guitar.

[EssexBuccaneer]

If I’m joining a band, I’ll accept my share of any expenses from that day onwards. I’ll chip in bits myself without expecting repayment (have just knocked up some t-shirts for us, I don’t expect nor ask for repayment) - but if a band asked me to pay up front for my share of the PA, I’m out. 

[Woodinblack]

23 minutes ago, Gasman said:

We've all paid, so its a good test situation - can we find a replacement member who's prepared to cough up £600?

 

If you can, can you let us know, I I have a bridge I would like to sell him

 

[Dan Dare]

49 minutes ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

If I’m joining a band, I’ll accept my share of any expenses from that day onwards. I’ll chip in bits myself without expecting repayment (have just knocked up some t-shirts for us, I don’t expect nor ask for repayment) - but if a band asked me to pay up front for my share of the PA, I’m out. 

 

So if a band had recently spent £10k on a quality PA (less than mine cost, incidentally) and you were invited to join a month later, you'd expect to benefit from it for nowt?

[EssexBuccaneer]

16 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

So if a band had recently spent £10k on a quality PA (less than mine cost, incidentally) and you were invited to join a month later, you'd expect to benefit from it for nowt?

I don’t see joining the band in that sense. 
 

The benefit is joining the band, and hopefully they benefit from me joining them - we work together to progress as a band from that date onwards.

 

No I’m not going to pay for a decision the band made prior to me joining. 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

20 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

So if a band had recently spent £10k on a quality PA (less than mine cost, incidentally) and you were invited to join a month later, you'd expect to benefit from it for nowt?

 

There is next to no band I would join on that basis ever, unless I guess they were a name group with a recording deal and the job had a guaranteed minimum payback. Happy to pay a share going forward of my pay for the use of the PA, but I would hope that if that situation happened it would be clear before the auditioning as I wouldn't want to waste my time. 

[Burns-bass]

“Guitarist wanted. Must have pro gear, the right attitude and £600 to pay for the PA.”

 

Not sure it’ll be a huge success!

[MacDaddy]

On 13/07/2023 at 17:59, Gasman said:

Our guitarist has just got as a deal on a new Bose PA - he has paid for it all, so the rest of us have agreed to reimburse him by paying him 20% each (5 piece outfit)- equal shares.

 

I would like us all to sign up to an agreement that states specifically what happens when members leave and new ones join, repair costs, and divvying up the proceeds if we split and sell it.

 

Has anyone got a template agreement that they would share with me?

 

Here's hoping!

 

 

 

I'm guessing you all, are not MU members?

 

[Gasman]

No, I'm not, haven't asked the others, although I believe at least one is. 

 

Your point was?

[MacDaddy]

7 minutes ago, Gasman said:

No, I'm not, haven't asked the others, although I believe at least one is. 

 

Your point was?

 

They do various agreements tailored for each band, but only if you are all members.

[Gasman]

OK, thanks! 😀

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

“Guitarist wanted. Must have pro gear, the right attitude and £600 to pay for the PA.”

 

Not sure it’ll be a huge success!

 

Let's flip it on its head - "Guitar player seeks band. I will not contribute towards any jointly used equipment or expenses, but I expect to enjoy the benefits of the money the rest of you have spent and be treated as a full partner and receive an equal share of anything the band makes".

 

Not sure that'll be a huge success, either. Is that what is meant by "the right attitude"?

 

£600 is peanuts. For a 5 piece band, that equates to a PA that cost £3k, which is a little (but not much) above entry level.

 

4 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

There is next to no band I would join on that basis ever, unless I guess they were a name group with a recording deal and the job had a guaranteed minimum payback. Happy to pay a share going forward of my pay for the use of the PA, but I would hope that if that situation happened it would be clear before the auditioning as I wouldn't want to waste my time. 

 

There is no guaranteed minimum payback in life and especially not in business. You invest in equipment, acquire the right knowledge and skills, etc, work hard and hope you will recoup. If you want a guaranteed minimum payback, you need a job that pays a fixed wage. Would you be happy to join a band on a fixed wage, regardless of how much money the band made? Or would you want to be an equal partner when it came to dividing the spoils? If the latter, you need to make a similar investment as your colleagues. Otherwise, you are expecting a free (or at least subsidised) ride from them.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Dan Dare

[Dad3353]

All of this one of several reasons why we play for free, as this removes any of the hassles, pitfalls and anguish from these pecuniary matters. It's just for fun, for us, and not a job; we don't need (nor would we want...) the income. Life can be simple. 

[Dan Dare]

1 minute ago, Dad3353 said:

All of this one of several reasons why we play for free, as this removes any of the hassles, pitfalls and anguish from these pecuniary matters. It's just for fun, for us, and not a job; we don't need (nor would we want...) the income. Life can be simple. 

 

I'm in a similar position. I've made my money, am comfortably retired and do not need to earn from playing (or anything I do, for that matter). I have all the toys I've ever wanted and, crucially, own my home. I suspect you are in the same position. Relatively few are in our fortunate position. The hippy idyll is not a realistic possibility for most. Life can only be simple if you can afford to make it so, which you and I can.

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, EssexBuccaneer said:

No I’m not going to pay for a decision the band made prior to me joining. 

 

Then you cannot expect to share in the benefits of that decision.