Is 5 String pointless?

[pineweasel]

7 hours ago, MJJS said:

Just to restate the original point of the thread.

 

If you’re moving on from 4 strings, is there any point in going to 5 instead of 6.

I thought this when I played a 4 string only. It seems obvious; if you're going to upend your playing as you learn a new instrument why not go straight to 6?

 

But each added string brings compromises, and I think the 5 is the sweet spot for most players who want to move beyond a 4. You get the benefit of being able to play across the board, and the useful extra low notes. I feel the upper C is unnecessary unless you frequently play high register solos or chords.

 

The market has spoken too; 5s are much easier to find, new and used, than 6s. So no, far from being pointless, for many of us the 5 string is the ideal bass.

 

 

 

[snorkie635]

This ^

[markorbit]

I think six strings are pointless for a bassist but not five.

 

I took the leap to five about four years ago after 35 years on four. It felt alien and still does to some degree. The thing is, now a four is missing something and I just can't go back. In that respect I agree with joel406. I am getting better on five so I'll carry on. No choice anyway because the band I'm in need the low notes. Even songs originally recorded on four are keyed down so I needed somewhere to go.

 

I think if a bass guitar was designed for the first time today it wouldn't stop at low E.

[Baloney Balderdash]

16 minutes ago, markorbit said:

I think six strings are pointless for a bassist but not five.

 

I took the leap to five about four years ago after 35 years on four. It felt alien and still does to some degree. The thing is, now a four is missing something and I just can't go back. In that respect I agree with joel406. I am getting better on five so I'll carry on. No choice anyway because the band I'm in need the low notes. Even songs originally recorded on four are keyed down so I needed somewhere to go.

 

I think if a bass guitar was designed for the first time today it wouldn't stop at low E.

I think the individual bass player should be allowed to decide for themself whether they prefer playing a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 string bass, and as such non of these are by default pointless for bass players in general.

 

I don't gatekeep playing bass by making up rules for how low or high a bass i allowed to be able to go to be a real bass, if it exists it is by definition a real bass, and if just one person in the Universe finds it useful then it is by definition not pointless.

 

This thread however for a large part is, even if definitely still indeed being very real.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[crazycloud]

On 15/07/2023 at 06:53, MJJS said:

Your thoughts?

I only play 5s and 6s. My 4s gather dust,

[BigRedX]

I sold the last of my 4-string basses a couple of years ago. I now own just two 5-strings and three Bass VIs.

[LewisK1975]

I dabbled in 5s a few years ago (Fender mex V, Sandberg PM5, USA Musicman Sub5), and enjoyed them greatly, necessary for the band I was in at the time.  The USA MM Sub had the best B string of the 3 I went through.

 

When I got one first, I only thought about the B string in terms of below the 5th fret, but the more I played, I started using the B string all the way up the neck, was a bit of an eye opener.

 

Still though whenever I picked up a 4 string, it just felt like home and I ended up shifting all the 5s and using an octaver for low notes.

 

Not quite the same, but in a live situation I find it's enough for me! YMMV!

[NickA]

On 16/07/2023 at 20:29, Hellzero said:

And Yves only needed two.

I've been waiting for that one to show up.  Wonder if he can play Chromatic Fantasy on it too?

 

tbh it doesn't look a bad proposition as although there are a lot of position changes, there are far fewer string crossings!

[andybassdoyle]

The C string gives you some great options, but options which take you outside of the core role of the bass. You could argue the same is true of the B string, personally though I think the B gives a more logical extension of the bass role as it adds the additional 5 bass notes whereas the C adds 5 additional notes above the regular range of a 4 string

 

These are not notes that most of us would use often which means the C essentially opens the range of the bass 'horizontally' for lines and voicings (as does the B of course). Nothing invalid there but you could reasonably argue that this is not the regular function of bass in music (I mean any bass as opposed to the job of the bass guitar).

 

There is of course a physical dimension to all of this too. Wide necks and longer scale lengths can be more challenging to get around - 4 string regular scale is generally easier and more comfortable.

 

Bottom line for me - I love the options the high C gives and I'd like to think I can integrate it reasonably well into the music I'm playing. If I asked them which bass to use though, the majority of musos that I play with would say 'just bring the normal one' meaning a 4 string P or J. I suspect if they would also say 'with flats on' if they knew what flats were.

[Hellzero]

31 minutes ago, NickA said:

I've been waiting for that one to show up.  Wonder if he can play Chromatic Fantasy on it too?

 

tbh it doesn't look a bad proposition as although there are a lot of position changes, there are far fewer string crossings!

Don't know if he can play Chromatic Fantasy on his 2 strings bass, but he can play Donna Lee. 😉

 

 

 

[TeresaFR]

I know if I had a 5, I'd very definitely use the extra string - I do tend to write songs that use every string at my disposal. What I'm not good at is going above the 12th fret, and even going that far is me being adventurous. I'm not sure I'd find more strings comfortable though. As for 6, that's not for me - though my previous distaste for their use has softened since I found out about Peter Hook's use of one.

[12stringbassist]

Answering the original question, whatever you want to play, play it.
I'm mainly a 4 string player, because I don't take the 5-string out often enough to feel 100% confident on it.

[itu]

 

This is something I wrote long ago:

 

Double basses and basses have this ancestor called viola da gamba. We know that gambas and double basses have had 1 - 9 strings as well as frets. Yes, several centuries ago! Players have used bow and certainly different kinds of plectra. What is new here?

 

Is four strings actually a step backwards, or just a simplification of this incredible instrument? Standard it certainly isn't.

 

Even the one string washtub bass has been used with success. It is not the instrument, but the player. Technology does not make music, we do.

 

[Dragonetti needed just one, so please buy an Atlansia Solitaire. The fretless one.]

[Hellzero]

15 minutes ago, itu said:

Dragonetti needed just one

He used a 3 strings double bass, just like any player of the same period, definitely not a 1 string double bass. 😉

 

That said he played a few instruments too including guitar and violin...

[itu]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

He used a 3 strings double bass, just like any player of the same period, definitely not a 1 string double bass. 😉

Wait a minute, I'll need to check the photo of him and the bass!

https://www.stretta-music.com/dragonetti-six-waltzes-nr-122681.html

 

Yes, sure he used a three string bass. I just wanted to upgrade that irritating "Jaco only...". That's so lame!

 

Electric bass is so new an instrument, it's still evolving. Fender wasn't the only or the first inventor. His idea of a cheap mass produced instrument just happened to be in a right place at a right time. Functional, yes. Popular, yes. Standard, not. Remember Leo was developing his own creations through his whole life.

Edited July 20, 2023 by itu
wrds

[Hellzero]

50 minutes ago, itu said:

Yes, sure he used a three string bass. I just wanted to upgrade that irritating "Jaco only...". That's so lame!

That's why I wrote Yves only needs 2 and put his versions of Teen Town and Donna Lee.

 

But Yves Carbonne also plays a 12 strings (no octave) fretless bass, so he plays (like I do) whatever he wants or what the music needs at that moment.

 

It's not lame to say every time someone points out a fiver, sixer or higher "Jaco only needed 4", when he's known to have played a fiver for some time: it's just silly stupid.

[smithy]

On 15/07/2023 at 11:45, Hellzero said:

This one isn't pointless.

 

At least not when playing with a guitarist suffering from arachnophobia.

[diskwave]

Any bass is pointless if you look into the crowd and their either chatting , looking away or simply waiting for the band to finish for the DJ to begin. In other words irrespective of how many strings, they all sound the same to the punters who after all is why we do this.

[NickA]

Now, here's a thing.  Playing the double bass in an orchestra I often have to retune (aka scordatura) as the notes go below E, often to a C (thanks Elgar ..who seemed to think it was a big cello.  Thanks Bach, who was writing, probably, for a 6 string violone).

 

A few people play 5-string DBs.  Despite some Jazzers using EADGC, there are no 6ers ( bar Violines).  Some people have 4s with an extension on the E that goes back to C ( ugly clanky things).

 

So D, A, D, G.   C, A, D, G.  C, G, D, G.  I guess you can avoid the width of a 6 strings fingerboard by retuning your 5.  Drop D and BEAG tuning aside, doesn't seem popular with electric bassists.  

[Hellzero]

@NickA, I own a made to measure Leduc sixer EUB that I used a lot when playing in a jazz duet making rearranged covers of French "standards".

 

 

 

[NickA]

Nice.  Bet that's fun.

 

Still not seen a 6er DB..but it will probably happen eventually.  I was close to commissioning a violone once, but reckoned there wouldn't be many opportunities to use or, having already failed at viola da gamba.. teachers to show me how.  NB these DO come in 4, 5 & 6er versions.

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by NickA

[Kiwi]

I've owned a Spector NS6 Euro and still own a Shuker 6.  I've discovered the c string on a 6 is hard to hear in the mix.  It overlaps with too many other instruments in the mix and it's rarely required for meat and potatoes type songs.  Plus it makes the neck really wide if it's rarely used and, if I'm honest, finding the A string with muscle memory can be a little overwhelming sometimes.  I've concluded that the 6 is probably best left for trios or duos where it has the space in the mix to be heard.

I find fours kind of limiting in the low end.  I like having that B string to stamp some authority on things.  I did consider at one point restringing the Shuker F#-B-E-A-D-G for an experiment but it's days in my care are probably numbered now.

[obi 2 kenobi]

Personally 4 string is pointless😁
Left 4s behind many years ago 

[lowdown]

On 15/07/2023 at 13:56, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

Jaco only needed four

 

     ...ducks for cover

 

Indeed. Marcus Miller nearly always uses a four.

 

        ....runs for cover.

[chris_b]

27 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Indeed. Marcus Miller nearly always uses a four.

 

 

Marcus Miller uses 4, 5 and 6 string basses, plus fretless. There are pictures of Jaco playing a 5 string bass.

 

The number of strings that should or shouldn't be on a bass is a very pointless discussion.