I should really know this but (jazz chart question)

[toneknob]

When reading a chart for a standard at your local jazz night, what's the significance of the chord symbols in a smaller font above the bigger typed chords? Here's an example thanks to Sonny Rollins.

 

So it's the Eb7 in bar 1, the D7 in bar 2, same again in bars 5 and 6. I'm sure it's google-able if you know the right term for it, which I don't. Thanks!

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by toneknob

[Nail Soup]

Don't know, but I'm going to have  guess: passing chord.

[Man.about.Tyne]

I’m guessing too… tritone substitution?

 

[toneknob]

8 minutes ago, Man.about.Tyne said:

I’m guessing too… tritone substitution?

 

in this case they are tritones, just coincidence I think. Found another example, Stella By Starlight with a Edim7 with a Gm7 and C7 on top. Is it one chord for soloists, another for compers?

[toneknob]

24 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Don't know, but I'm going to have  guess: passing chord.

 

I see what you're getting at - but I've also seen charts with say four chords per bar, which seems to cater for momentary chords.

[Burns-bass]

The large chords are for melody-instruments and soloing. The smaller chords are the bass notes. The melody players will need you to play these notes to bounce off, so keep it simple and avoid substitutions I’d say.

 

 

[OliverBlackman]

I thought it was possible alternative chords used in solo sections.

[jrixn1]

They are just alternative chords; whether to use them comes down to personal taste/preference.  Probably best though to discuss with the rest of the band in advance whether to play the default or the alternative.  Sometimes e.g. tritones you can play them spontaneously, but e.g. I Remember You has a AbM as an alternative to Am7 so you can't just chuck that in willy nilly if the others aren't expecting it.

 

[jrixn1]

8 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

The large chords are for melody-instruments and soloing. The smaller chords are the bass notes. The melody players will need you to play these notes to bounce off, so keep it simple and avoid substitutions I’d say.

 

Isn't that slash chords, which is something else?

 

E.g. here it's saying the the first seven bars to play an Eb pedal.

 

 

[Burns-bass]

2 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Isn't that slash chords, which is something else?

 

E.g. here it's saying the the first seven bars to play an Eb pedal.

 

 

No wonder Jamie Cullum never called back.

[spencer.b]

They're alternative chord changes, the chromatic descending chords go with the melody and the bracketed ones I think get played in the solos on the original recording, they are technically tritone subs but I think of them as a different route to get from chord 1 (Bb) to chord 6(G7) so although different chords they have the same harmonic function and are in that way interchangeable, the bracketed chords are 1,4,3,6 which are pretty common changes for the first 2 bars of a standard and they work better for a walking line in the solos as opposed to the 2 feel with the descending chords when playing behind the melody 

Don't be embarrassed just to discuss it with the piano/guitarist before you start, with these tunes there's often not really a definitive version, the more you do it the quicker you'll be able to recognise the harmonic function and make confident choices about your route through and also you'll be quicker to hear if one of the others is playing the alternative changes, it's often the case on gigs that some people are reading a charts and others are not which makes listening even more important 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by spencer.b

[Oomo]

Yup, alternative chords as others have mentioned.

 

In irealpro (which is what it looks like the chart is from) I've noticed that a bunch of pieces use this to show common versions of a tune on a single sheet for convenience (e.g. the original version, then maybe alternate chords from a popular Miles/Coltrane recording).

[dclaassen]

The first few examples show alternative chords, as has been well covered. I would ask the pianist what chords to follow…nobody else will know or care. The chord symbol with the slash like Dmaj7/B indicates that you should include a B somewhere in that section, preferably on the downbeat.

[toneknob]

thanks all! so digging into the iReal Pro docs leads to these chords being called (as mentioned above) 'alternate chords', but doesn't give any indication of when they should be played, just how to notate them in iReal Pro charts

then googling around variations on 'when to use alternate chords on a jazz chart' only leads to either altered chords or chord substitutions, neither of which is what we're looking for here.

 

advice from this thread (again thanks) can be distilled down to "it depends", which is pretty much what I've discovered is the general guideline for most questions arising from trying to get hip to learning jazz! 

 

 

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, toneknob said:

thanks all! so digging into the iReal Pro docs leads to these chords being called (as mentioned above) 'alternate chords', but doesn't give any indication of when they should be played, just how to notate them in iReal Pro charts

then googling around variations on 'when to use alternate chords on a jazz chart' only leads to either altered chords or chord substitutions, neither of which is what we're looking for here.

 

advice from this thread (again thanks) can be distilled down to "it depends", which is pretty much what I've discovered is the general guideline for most questions arising from trying to get hip to learning jazz! 

 

I'm not at all sure what the issue is, here ^^^^. I can think of little to differentiate between 'alternate chords' and 'chord substitution', and which 'alternate' or 'substitute' is appropriate is entirely a question of context. If it helps the piece along in any way, it's all good; if there are potential clashes with other players, either it's understood beforehand, or discovered when the clash occurs..! These notions are more typically found in 'standards', often from the Real Books and such, and there are often variants from different executions of the piece over time, from different performers with differing styles. Once one has some familiarity with some of this, it gets easier to 'know' what to play; this experience is gained mostly by playing the pieces, listening to what is going on and discussion with fellow musicians. It's not really a mathematical issue (tritone-shmitone...); simply the way certain styles of music have 'rules' that can be bent, broken or ignored by the players. If in doubt, play the main stuff, and leave the optional bits unless they've been clarified in advance, or didn't work the last time you (all...) played that number. It's not rocket surgery, so no real need to over-think this stuff. Being aware, and studying it, is great, but the pudding gets proven only when it's being played. Rehearsals can help in sorting out issues like this, although that's a luxury that a dep doesn't often have. It only takes a few moments to consult with the keys/guitar colleague; he/she will already have an idea of what's to be done, so it only needs a little agreement. Usually. Until someone forgets, and a bum note is played. Ho hum... That's jazz, innit...