Double bass advice

[joelcmj]

Hello I want to add double bass to my arsenal, I’ve played bass guitar for 17 years. I would be looking to play jazz, blues and musicals specifically so a 3/4 would be best. I have looked at a couple of basses on gear4music as I would have to get a bass on finance (no way I could afford one outright). The two I’ve seen on there are 

 

https://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Stentor-Student-Double-Bass-3-4/US1

 

https://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Stentor-Student-2-Double-Bass-3-4/V0C
 

are either of these basses any good? Would I be able to play it from the box or have to spend a fortune on setup too. There isn’t a luthier in Cardiff as far as I’m aware. It makes me consider a good EUB instead but I’m worried I would be turned down for work with one of them as it’s not the authentic real thing.

 

look forward to hearing advice 

Joel 

[TheRev]

I have a Stentor 2 in our rehearsal room and it's totally decent.  I'd be happy for it to be my main bass.

As for a setup,  every double bass will need a setup at some point to get it playing how you want it - the difficult thing is knowing what you want!   You can certainly play one 'out of the box' but if this is your first DB and the action is set high (as they tend to be to allow for later adjustment)  then you may struggle to stop a note properly and could even injure yourself.  If you're a bit handy with wood, it's not that difficult to cut the bridge slots a bit deeper and sand down the top of the bridge to get a playable action - just take your time and don't take off too much at once..

Is there a specific reason you want to buy new? There's a bunch of decent double basses in the for sale forum and all of them will have already been fully fettled for optimum playability. 

 

Dave

[joelcmj]

Buying new so I can go on finance and pay monthly. The injury thing is what I am worried about too! 

[petebassist]

The setup thing is a bit of a pain if you buy from somewhere like G4M. If you took a trip up to somewhere like Bass Bags in Derby you could pick up a new bass and get a setup at the same time - I did this for my Eastman, and can recommend the service.

Or as suggested, by a used model that's been setup already.

Best of luck with your search.

[joelcmj]

I’m happy to consider an electric upright if they are set up from the get go for jazz. I’m just worried some people would be picky it’s not a real acoustic. I know it’s a different instrument but the technique is surely the same? 

[TheRev]

36 minutes ago, joelcmj said:

I’m happy to consider an electric upright if they are set up from the get go for jazz. I’m just worried some people would be picky it’s not a real acoustic. I know it’s a different instrument but the technique is surely the same? 

The technique is the same but the sound isn't quite the same. Im my experience musicals/pit gigs don't care too much about whether its acoustic or electric, as long as you can play the dots and it sounds ok - a decent EUB would be fine in this setting.

Die hard jazzers are more picky but you can point them at Eberhard Webber and Esperanza Spalding.

 

What's the most important criteria for you? If you want to get out there and playing ASAP, then EUB will get the job done. If, 6 or 12 months down the line you still have that DB itch, you'll at least be in a better position to decide what you want from your DB setup. This was the route I took, and while part of me feels I should have gone direct to DB, I was out gigging the EUB; n a matter of weeks, which probably wouldn't have been thae case with an acoustic double bass.

Edited July 18, 2023 by TheRev

[joelcmj]

That's great news what eub would you recommended?

[TheRev]

1 hour ago, joelcmj said:

That's great news what eub would you recommended?

Gage Eminence or Yamaha SLB200. I own an Eminence and have played the Yamaha on a number of occasions and they both replicate the feel of an acoustic bass.  The Larkin Blen in the for sale form would be good as well.

The NS Wav gets a decent DB like sound but to me, it's a different playing experience.

[jrixn1]

@joelcmj

If you qualify for gear4music credit, you can just as likely get a bank loan - then you can buy privately.

 

I'd vote for acoustic upright.  I'm sure I wouldn't have a lot of my work (jazz, theatre) if I was playing EUB. Like you say, people do value authenticity - certainly, an acoustic player isn't going to lose gigs because he didn't play EUB.  Probably depends on your specific network though - perhaps you can just ask your bandleaders/contacts outright. 

 

I had my adjusters fitted by mail order - https://www.mjbl.co.uk/double-bass-bridge-adjusters-for-sale.  I posted him my bridge and he returned it with the adjusters fitted.  It's about £100.

 

Alternatively, http://bristol-violin-shop.co.uk/ is an hour from Cardiff and comes highly recommended by many basschatters.

[Burns-bass]

44 minutes ago, TheRev said:

Gage Eminence or Yamaha SLB200. I own an Eminence and have played the Yamaha on a number of occasions and they both replicate the feel of an acoustic bass.  The Larkin Blen in the for sale form would be good as well.

The NS Wav gets a decent DB like sound but to me, it's a different playing experience.

Agreed. You need to find a EUB with the correct scale length so you can apply the same technique. You should also try and find a bass with genuine DB strings and learn how to pull the string back using your bicep (not using your thumb as a pivot).

Playing DB is hard and you need to put in a lot of hours to get anywhere near competent. I can busk a jazz gig but earn my cash playing blues in a loud band where my technique is less apparent.

 

I wish you well in your DB adventures and I’d love to hear how you get on. 

 

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

@joelcmj

If you qualify for gear4music credit, you can just as likely get a bank loan - then you can buy privately.

 

I'd vote for acoustic upright.  I'm sure I wouldn't have a lot of my work (jazz, theatre) if I was playing EUB. Like you say, people do value authenticity - certainly, an acoustic player isn't going to lose gigs because he didn't play EUB.  Probably depends on your specific network though - perhaps you can just ask your bandleaders/contacts outright. 

 

I had my adjusters fitted by mail order - https://www.mjbl.co.uk/double-bass-bridge-adjusters-for-sale.  I posted him my bridge and he returned it with the adjusters fitted.  It's about £100.

 

Alternatively, http://bristol-violin-shop.co.uk/ is an hour from Cardiff and comes highly recommended by many basschatters.

Excellent advice.

 

I think you can still rent a bass with the violin shop, so that’s an option too.

 

As soon as you play DB I was offered gigs that were far beyond my ability, in many cases because of the aesthetic. Im pretty awful and I still get paid (mad world).

 

The guys here are proper gigging experts so I’d go with what they recommend.

[Burns-bass]

http://bristol-violin-shop.co.uk/instrument-hire-scheme/

[joelcmj]

Thank you for all the information you are right it should be an acoustic one,  will have a look into rentals but I also found a website Caswell strings that do finance but will wait it out because summer is quiet  (teach guitar in schools) and have a family but I did look at this one. 

https://caswells-strings.co.uk/product/andreas-zeller-laminate-back-double-bass-outfit/

 

anyone familiar with this brand? Caswell strings would charge delivery which is fine but have told me that they would set it up for jazz with the right strings. 
 

in the meantime I suppose I will practice my walking lines and transcribe the greats on my electric bass. 
 

thank you for all your advice! 

 

[Burns-bass]

Not sure if you can get a credit card and pay that back, but you’d get a better deal on here buying second hand.

 

To get you gigging, you also need:

 

- A pickup

- Bag

- Pre-amp / HPF

 

When I started I got all that on here for £500. 

[jrixn1]

13 minutes ago, joelcmj said:

will have a look into rentals but I also found a website Caswell strings that do finance but will wait it out because summer is quiet  (teach guitar in schools)

 

If you decide to rent, consider doing it before September, because what I've heard is that all the instruments get snapped up by students when term starts.

[NickA]

Better a decent EUB than an substandard Double Bass I think. 

 

Bass Direct has a couple of nice NS design EUBs right now for a bit less than the more expensive of the two Stentors (https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/NS_Design_CR4.html)... and offer 0% finance.

 

Bit harder with a double bass I think.

 

A brand new cheap Gear4Music / Caswells bass is likely to be short on tone and sustain and I've found the bottom end of modern lamianted bass a bit quiet (though an amp could correct it to an extent). Also you can assume that a Gear4Music bass will come with cheap strings and poor setup; you'll end up spending £100s to get it up and running properly (good jazz / hybrid strings are £200+ new; though a kind BassChat member might sell you some for much less ).  Remember to factor in £150 - £300 for a pickup (unless you have friends who play really quietly!)  Also, it might be hard to pass on when you want to upgrade (and you will) at anything like the purchase price.   And finally.. I really wouldn't buy a bass before trying it out and comparing to a few others.  At least with Caswells, you can go to their shop and have a go (though their stock is limited).

 

Bassbags near Derby have these:  https://www.bassbags.co.uk/product/eastman-vb80-double-bass/   it's very much a beginner bass but I guarantee it will come with nice strings / bridge / setup.  Plus the proprietor will insist you try a load of (more expensive) other basses (in the hope you will buy one) .. but even if you stick with the cheapest you will get an idea of the variety and what you'd get for more money.  Also he'll take a trade in against a better bass later on.  I don't think they do finance (ask) but they would lease you one.

 

My best advice is to save up the £1800 and take it bassbags or better stil to the doublebassroom in Hastings and try a load (eg https://www.thedoublebassroom.com/product/1950s-west-german-bubenruth-3-4-size/).  If you can, take another double bass player with you, to advise and to listen from a distance (the sound "under the ear" can be deceptive).   If you have doubts about what to look for ... well really it's a matter of do you like the tone and feel of it.  Does it buzz or rattle (hope not), is everything sturdy (hope so), does it make a sound you like on all four strings, open and fingered? (must do).

 

 

In my own case, (back in 1991), I tried new Stentors etc (they were about £600 - £800 then) in a london shop (now gone), talked to a couple of makers (too expensive, a George Stoppani was £4500 and a Ronald Prentice was £5000!!! ... both would be worth >£20k now!) and eventually spent my entire £2000 savings on the nicest 4/4 I could find; an 1880s German "factory bass". I still have it.  Still play Jazz and Classical on it every week.  It's needed some work over the years ... new strings and end-pin from bassbags, bridge modification from Tim Bachelar) but sounds better than ever - I've never regretted that £2k.

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, NickA said:

My best advice is to save up the £1800 and take it bassbags or better stil to the doublebassroom in Hastings and try a load (eg https://www.thedoublebassroom.com/product/1950s-west-german-bubenruth-3-4-size/).

 

Good call - and btw he takes credit cards, if that helps with the finance side of things.

[Burns-bass]

10 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

 

Good call - and btw he takes credit cards, if that helps with the finance side of things.

 

The 10-hour round trip from south Wales may be a bit of a stretch, but certainly worth it if you can mange it.

[Beer of the Bass]

I found the few years when I owned an EUB and no double bass quite frustrating, and I think my playing came on in leaps and bounds when I was able to own a double bass. EUB is useful as a tool for travel, loud gigs or more overtly "electric" uses, but I feel like a background in acoustic double bass makes it a lot easier to use one well.

[calduggan]

If you want to play double bass, I’d recommend getting a double bass, not an EUB. 
 

Mike Morgan in Llantrisant or Martin Jones in Caerphilly could set up a bass for you (Mike’s done good work on my basses over the years), I’d echo what others have said that it’s worth earmarking a couple of hundred quid for a set-up, as it can make a fairly ordinary bass sound and feel a lot better!

 

 

[tinyd]

Yep, I agree on going DB if that's what you want. Somebody here (sorry, can't remember who) phrased it something like "there's nothing like pulling a note out of a big piece of wood" and I have to say that it was bang on. You will also end up getting gigs (and you can debate about how shallow this is) based purely on the look of a DB.

Of course, EUBs are great and if I had room and money I'd get one as well....

[Jakester]

6 minutes ago, tinyd said:

You will also end up getting gigs (and you can debate about how shallow this is) based purely on the look of a DB.

 

There's the old chestnut, "the first week, I got my DB and had my first lesson on how to bow. The second week, I worked on intonation. I missed my third lesson because I was out gigging!" 

[timmyta]

my spare double is a 3/4 5 string fully carved Gedo (currently high C), you are welcome to borrow it on a long term basis to see how well you get on with an upright etc the only issue is getting her to you, I am up in north Wales

Edited July 22, 2023 by timmyta

[NickA]

17 hours ago, timmyta said:

you are welcome to borrow it on a long term basis

Well that's a non refusable offer surely!  Looks like a decent bass too.

 

..might spoil the op for an £1800 Stentor tho.😉

Edited July 23, 2023 by NickA

[Rosie C]

On 18/07/2023 at 12:56, joelcmj said:

There isn’t a luthier in Cardiff as far as I’m aware. It makes me consider a good EUB instead but I’m worried I would be turned down for work with one of them as it’s not the authentic real thing.

 

 

Martin's Violin's in Caerphilly have worked on my double bass - doing general setup and fitting a pickup a couple of years ago. 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Rosie C