Jumping back to a 4 to "learn".

[karlbbb]

As I reflect on nearly 20 years of bass playing, I realise that almost all of it has been spent on 5-strings of various quality and pickup layouts etc. I've played in bands in the past but I'm mostly a bedroom player now. But here's the thing... I'm ****. Like, really, still quite a bit ****.

 

I've never bothered to "learn" bass properly, instead hunting for tabs and then being insanely critical of myself that I can't figure out or play every note exactly how it is in the recording. I still can barely slap a single note. Most of my first few years were spent in the 2000s pop-punk era of 8th or 16th root note plodding style basslines. I don't know my way around the fretboard. I can't move around in a song. I'm currently listening to "Inside Out" by Imelda May, and what must be the simplest of walking basslines would take me a couple of days to get all the notes down through sheer, brute force trial and error.

 

The conventional wisdom is that one should learn on a 4. Is this really the case? I have those 4 strings on my 5 string, there's just another one there to add into learning modes and other shapes. Should I be picking up a nice cheap Harley Benton jazz clone and start learning properly?

Edited July 18, 2023 by karlbbb

[Paolo85]

I can't play "properly" myself but as you said, you do have those 4 strings in your bass so even if there was for some reason a rule that one learns better on a 4, you could just use your B to rest your thumb. Unless you want to buy a 4 string bass

[TheGreek]

I'm reading this while listening to "Would I lie to you" on the telly in the background.

 

For a brief second I thought that this was a lie.

[Lozz196]

Or just take off the B string maybe.

 

But then this is Basschat, we should be encouraging you to buy a new bass!

[TheGreek]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

Or just take off the B string maybe.

 

But then this is Basschat, we should be encouraging you to buy a new bass!

 

Yep, I find it easier to learn on a new bass.

[Acebassmusic]

22 minutes ago, karlbbb said:

..... what must be the simplest of walking basslines would take me a couple of days to get all the notes down through sheer, brute force trial and error.

 

The conventional wisdom is that one should learn on a 4. Is this really the case?

 

As you've been playing 5 strings for so long I don't see any advantage to "learning on a 4" unless you plan to move back to 4. You're already familiar with playing a five so its one less thing to think about and confuse yourself whilst learning the new stuff.

 

Any new bass line is difficult until you've learned it! 🤣 Some tracks do take days or months to get all the notes down, this happens to everyone whatever their level. Even Mr Wooten needs to work on stuff. What speeds up the "brute force trial and error" part of the process is knowing note names and positions on the fretboard, scales modes, arpeggios, intervals etc. This theory stuff might sound boring and it can be a bit of a slog to get through. However when things start to fall into place and you get lightbulb moments where you are able to recongnise what the next note should be (and know why) you'll find yourself grinning and enjoying playing more 👍

 

Who said you should learn on a 4? I would say its more common because there's more 4 string basses out there. Don't let that stop you playing the 5.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Acebassmusic

[itu]

There's no such rule! In the music school I attended a long ago people had 4, 5, and 6 string basses. Including teachers.

 

If I was you, learning major and minor scales (all 4), chords (major, minor, dim, ±5, 6, 7, m7, maj7, mmaj7, ±5, dim7) and you already know quite a lot. Learning these through the fretboard gives you pretty good tools to play many songs.

 

There are two books that might be worth checking (try amazon):

Standing in the shadows of Motown.

Bass line encyclopedia.

The first one includes some tough stuff like What's going on. The second has a good selection of different playing styles.

[Burns-bass]

What do you want to achieve on bass that you can’t already do?

 

There are plenty of bass players who can’t read music, don’t know their scales or arpeggios, or modes and still get paid.

 

Don’t do something because you feel you should. Do it because you want to!

 

Sit down and figure out your goals. If it’s to play gigs and have fun, then figure out your path to get there. If it’s to sight read complex passages, all good.

 

oh, and you can achieve everything you want to on a 5-string bass. Do not buy more gear.

[Leonard Smalls]

Get a 4!

If it's good enough for Jaco...

Etc etc

😁 

 

 

[3below]

With "nearly 20 years of bass playing" and  "hunting for tabs and then being insanely critical of myself that I can't figure out or play every note exactly how it is in the recording" you have got the mechanics pretty sorted, The biggest improvements in my playing have come about when I have had to really listen to the music being played- for want of a better phrase "getting my ear in"  and playing in a context where there has been little (no) room for bass blunders. This combined with supportive band members who are musically way better than me has made the difference.  Keep going and enjoy it  No need for more kit.

[chris_b]

Are you drunk??

[3below]

Just now, chris_b said:

Are you drunk??

Which one of us?

[Jackroadkill]

OP, you're asking the wrong question; really you should be finding out which is the best 4-string for metal.

[chris_b]

23 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Are you drunk??

 

The OP.

[nilorius]

Today, everyone who starts to learn bass, can make a decition. Start with 4 string fretted/fretless, 5 string f/f or go for 6 string f/f. It is always something You can change later. Ofcourse - starters can best do the practise on 4 string fretted.....then think of other options.

[Baloney Balderdash]

That's a misconception.

 

Learn on the instrument you are actually going to play.

 

That will always be the absolutely most productive way of practicing.

 

If you plan to continue predominantly playing 5 string, learn on that, if you plan on switching to mainly playing 4 string, learn on that.

 

Also never too late to learn.

 

And I'd suggest you spend some time on practicing improvisation as well.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Phil Starr]

I'm really **** too. Probably in the same way as you and I have a terrible ear too, so probably even more ****. I too resort to brute force and repetition to learn new songs. I suspect there are lots of us here trawling BC for clues.

 

I know with certainty that learning music would improve me as a bassist and make learning new songs much easier. I've friends who are classical musicians or who have done their grades on the piano when they were kids and what they can do seems like magic to me. Sing all the harmony parts in a song, no trouble. Play along with a song they've never heard before? Locked in by the end of the first verse. We had a keyboard player once who had never listened to Dark Side Of The Moon. We played her Great Gig in the Sky and she played the piano part back to us, both hands. This is great power but I know it isn't magic, it's knowledge. I can't do music but I can do numbers and logic (I was a science teacher) my wife taught English and can spot a grammatical error or a misplaced apostrophe every single time.   The point is that my maths seems like magic to her and her command of language and ability to spot a spelling mistake seems magic to me. I got short shrift from her when the first reports came out of Wuhan and I sat down and calculated what the death toll would be. But then I can't spot a fleckle when we're watching Strictly and she can't pick the googly We drive each other to distraction

 

 

 

I know I should learn a lot more about musical theory and to read and write music. If I loved poetry not being able to read would be madness, it would shut me out of nearly everything good, I'd still be able to recite poems and learn new one, maybe even perform live at open mics but I'd still be lacking opportunity.

 

I don't think people who have skills and knowledge understand how it feels to be at the bottom of the mountain. We do know we are at the bottom using strategies to get round problems rather than addressing the problem, Telling us to learn scales, major minor and diminished isn't helping even if it is well intentioned. I wouldn't tell someone to learn their tables up to 19x and then they would be able to do maths. Learning needs to be structured, integrated and needs to understand where the pupil is. It needs to understand the fear factor and the feelings of inadequacy, of not being able to do what others seem to find so easy.

 

There's hope though, you have curiosity on your side and there are so many resources out there to help. Me I'm contemplating getting music lessons on another instrument where I have to read from the start and have to face learning the grades. My son learned to read in a couple of years of piano lessons even though he hated it. Maybe my mind is not as flexible as his but I want to do it.

 

The answer is not another bass with a string missing. Good luck

Edited July 19, 2023 by Phil Starr

[Burns-bass]

I’m going through my bass books today. Send me a message and I’ll zip you across a few that you might find useful (free, this isn’t me trying to make money!)

[toneknob]

14 hours ago, karlbbb said:

I still can barely slap a single note.

 

Do you want to?

 

 

[Franticsmurf]

It takes me ages to learn a specific bass part to play to the point where, pre-lockdown, I got in to the habit of accepting a simpler version that was quicker to learn. This was partly to do with the nature of the band I was in at the time (I have posted elsewhere about the singer who would 'wing it' through most of our songs). There was never an incentive for me to learn the accurate part (or an interesting variation of it) because we rarely played the song properly, or even consistently. 

 

During lockdown the rest of the band left the singer and as soon as we were able, began a new project and sure enough, it was still taking me ages to nail the bass parts. As the OP and others have said, things that some people pick up instantly I had to work hard at (and still do). I have a particular problem with playing riffs and runs that use a mix of open and fretted notes around the first three frets which for some reason take me longer to get right than the same pattern all fretted. But I learnt that it was worth the effort for the end result and I feel I became a better bassist as a result of learning those parts. I can't read music and have no interest in doing so (I'm not dismissing the skill and I admire those who can). I can improvise over basic chord progressions (the random arrangements, keys and even songs our singer would introduce during a gig taught me to be confident in the basics). Playing with other musicians made me better, and playing in a relaxed and  'safe' environment (rehearsals and jams with people where I felt comfortable trying new stuff out and making mistakes) meant I could learn along the way.

 

To the OP - I wonder if you're a bit too self critical? Forget what you can't do, get into jam sessions with like-minded musicians and see what you can do. Jam along to backing tracks, a drum machine, the radio. I think playing for fun, without the goal of being perfect, is a great benefit. And play the instrument you feel most comfortable with.

 

But, this being Basschat, it would be wrong of me not to add my voice to the growing mass encouraging you to buy a new bass. It won't make you a better bassist (I know, I've tried it). But it's new... 🤣

[nilorius]

11,12,6,5 strings - always ''think twice'' before You jump back to 4 !!!

[Greg Edwards69]

5 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Learn on the instrument you are actually going to play.

That will always be the absolutely most productive way of practicing.

If you plan to continue predominantly playing 5 string, learn on that, if you plan on switching to mainly playing 4 string, learn on that.

This ^^.

 

I've had a couple of 5 strings (and played one exclusively for many years) and a 6 string bass. But I realised at some point a number of years ago that I'm happier on a 4 string bass, so that's all I own.

 

If you're happier playing 5, 6, 12, or 100 strings, then play it, learn it and enjoy it. Music theory doesn't change depending on the number of strings.

 

FWIW, if I need the extended lower ranger offered by 5 strings I use a pitch shifter to simulate BEAD tuning. It's easier for me compared to switching to another bass. Although It forces me to think about what I'm doing and occasionally catches me out.

 

[karlbbb]

3 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I’m going through my bass books today. Send me a message and I’ll zip you across a few that you might find useful (free, this isn’t me trying to make money!)

That's extremely kind, I'll drop you a message shortly.

 

To everyone else, thanks so much for all the input! It's certainly given a little clarity to last night's (non-drunk) ramble. I mentioned things like slapping, learning scales and modes because the general desire is to be a more "well-rounded" player. There's no real need as I'm only a bedroom player with no immediate plans to look for some kind of jamming/band situation, but it's probably useful to improve myself as much as possible rather than let myself stagnate for another 20 years of bass playing.

 

Special thanks to those dissuading me from buying more gear, even a cheap Jazz clone 😁

[tauzero]

It's quite easy to slip into concentrating on playing what the tab says, and not manging to get it to match the music .I finish up like that sometimes, and I've found that what is needed is to listen to the bassline as a melody and hear the tune, and become familiar with it. When you know what you're trying to get to as a musical piece rather than a series of numbers on a page, it's easier to get there. I probably haven't expressed this very well, I know what I'm trying to say but I don't know whether I've conveyed it well.

[tauzero]

PS. And you obviously need another 5-string, just in case.