Sine Effects HPF and LPF pedals (and EQ stuff too)

[fretmeister]

Youtube randomly suggested a demo of Sine Effects (Scottish company) HPF

 

 

 

 

Website: https://sineeffect.company.site/

 

They look pretty good. I've always got a Thumpinator on my board as I like to control Octave and Synth pedals a bit more before they hit the front of the amp.

 

It would be good if the slope was a bit more drastic though. I like a more obvious chop off!

[Baloney Balderdash]

I just use the switchable HPF build into my ART Tube MP Project Series tube preamp, which is placed at the end of the signal chain of my "amp-less" setup.

 

It is not adjustable though, fixed @ 40Hz 12dB/Oct, but it does really help a lot tightening up the low end.

 

That's right, your low end actually gets, not only more defined and articulate, but actually also more pronounced and punchy, from cutting off all that sub bass low end rumble that only serves to muddy up your signal anyway.

 

Other than that a HPF will allow for your amp and speaker cab(s) to work much more efficiently, and could actually mean that you will be able to turn up a bit higher as well, because their power is not sucked up by sub bass (the lower you go the more power is used), as well as it might prolong the life of your speakers as well.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BlueMoon]

I find that an HPF in the chain does improve my sound. Some of the merits claimed in the video are more significant (or discernible) than others, but I have no doubt there are multiple benefits to the use of HPF and LPF’s.

 

I wonder why more preamp pedals do not routinely include variable filter controls as standard. I use a Genzler ReQ on a small pedal-board where I can vary each filter frequency or by-pass, as required.

[fretmeister]

Yeah - I mean I know all amps have an HPF in them somewhere but apart from some of the Bergantino heads I don't know any that have controls for the cut off freq.

[Baloney Balderdash]

56 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Youtube randomly suggested a demo of Sine Effects (Scottish company) HPF

 

It would be good if the slope was a bit more drastic though. I like a more obvious chop off!

The 24dB/Oct of this pedal is actually a quite drastic HPF, typically most HPF'rs commonly used for this purpose is 12dB/Oct.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[LukeFRC]

On 28/07/2023 at 10:46, Baloney Balderdash said:

The 24dB/Oct of this pedal is actually a quite drastic HPF, typically most HPF'rs commonly used for this purpose is 12dB/Oct.

 

I was about to say similar - the well reguarded Broughton is 12dB/oct 

[uncle psychosis]

I'm trying to decide between one of these and a thumpinator. 

 

The thumpinator appeals because of the simplicity and the fact it has a known pedigree. But it also costs quite a lot more than this which makes the decision harder... 

[Al Krow]

This looks like a really neat HPF!

 

By way of comparison:

 

Sineeffect: variable HPF (25 - 400Hz) with 24db/oct slope, £89

Broughton: variable HPF (25 - 190Hz) with 12dB/oct slope, around £95 (with import costs)?

Thumpinator Mk2: fixed HPF (c. 25Hz) with 36dB/oct slope, £139

 

I've had a Thumpinator Mk1 sitting at the start of my various pedal boards as an "always on crud cleaner" for several years, but the Sineeffect pedal looks to be the better option with the ability to set the cut off frequency to suit whilst providing a pretty aggressive slope. 

[LukeFRC]

There’s also two uses - cleaning out crud, but also something like the Vong with a LPF too means you can kinda do a simple pseudo cab sim 

[LukeFRC]

Vong 

adjustable HighPass-Filter (30-140Hz)4th Order-Filter -> -24dB/Oct.

(-12dB/Oct. fixed at 30Hz

-12dB/Oct. adjustable)

 

adjustable LowPass-Filter (.250-22kHz) 2nd Order-Filter

-12dB/Okt. adjustable

DI-Out

 

£45 ish - but you have to build it yourself 

[PaulWarning]

the Zoom B1 four has a high pass filter as well as a load of other stuff for around £80

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 30/07/2023 at 11:09, PaulWarning said:

the Zoom B1 four has a high pass filter as well as a load of other stuff for around £80

Yes, fully adjustable HPF and LPF effect models, with adjustable slope as well, though 12dB/Oct being the max applicable slope (but you could easily get around that by stacking multiple filters (a 12dB/Oct HPF stacked into a 12dB/Oct HPF for instance set at the same frequency essentially is the exact same as a 24dB/Oct HPF)). 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[LukeFRC]

Once you get to digital it’s a lot simpler - a lot of ir loaders include a HPF/LPF - it depends what you are doing with it , it’s a different use case than a thumponator

[JohnDaBass]

On 28/07/2023 at 10:45, fretmeister said:

Yeah - I mean I know all amps have an HPF in them somewhere but apart from some of the Bergantino heads I don't know any that have controls for the cut off freq.

Mesa Subway D 800+ has a variable HPF. My Subway D800 has it built-in so not as flexible as it's big brother. Not an issue for me as my "always on" Zoom B1-4 has 2x HPF stacked at the start of each patch. (Set at 30Hz for most of my basses but set to 40Hz for EB3)

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

the Zoom B1 four has a high pass filter as well as a load of other stuff for around £80

 

42 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

Mesa Subway D 800+ has a variable HPF. My Subway D800 has it built-in so not as flexible as it's big brother. Not an issue for me as my "always on" Zoom B1-4 has 2x HPF stacked at the start of each patch. (Set at 30Hz for most of my basses but set to 40Hz for EB3)

 

Good shout re. the Zoom B1-4 and I've similarly loaded all my Zoom patches with the HPF (= "low EQ" patch).

So I've got a Thumpinator acting to get rid of low end crud --> B1-4 variable HPF.

Maybe that's a little bit overkill?

Just sensing that the Sine Effects could do a better possibly more "musical" clean up as there's always going to be a trace of digital noise with something like the B1-4 (definitely not an issue in a band mix), but for the price the unit is ridiculously good value. Probably still can't justify having 3 of them though, haha!

Be interested to explore what the HPF capability is like on the Boss GT100 Core and whether that's noise free.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Al Krow

[Rodders]

I might have to add one of these to my board in place of the Thumpinator, its cut off is 31hz I think (fundamental of a Low B?) but I still find myself vibrating rooms. As others have mentioned, this one from Sine seems more useful being adjustable without the hassle of having to order and potentially pay extra from Broughton.

[BillyBass]

I've had the Sine effects HPF on my board for about a month or so and I have just acquired the Genzler Re-Q pedal, which is a 5 way eq pedal with high and low pass filters.  There is a noticeable difference in the high pass filters on both.  The Sine Effects 24db cut is a step off a cliff, whereas the Genzler pedal is more of an EQ pedal with the HPF and LPF being used interactively with the EQ for tone shaping.  

 

I also have a Rafferty HPF and a Thumpinator.

 

I was after a step off a cliff under a certain frequency, say 35hz, not tone shaping, and I wanted a stomp box, not a desk top unit, so I'm keeping the Sine Effects and will be moving the Genzler and Rafferty HPFs on.

 

My Thumpinator is faulty.  They are expensive for what they are and, in my experience, not very good.

[SumOne]

I'm tempted with the sine effects micro para instead (I had the mega para and it's a decent bit of kit). 

 

-15 dB (or adjustable up to +15dB boost) from 25Hz up to 6KHz, and can adjust the Q and shelf type. £114, makes it similar price and size to the HPF pedals while also being much more adjustable....and if you're in a situation where you need to cut or boost some specific other frequency then it can do that instead. In fact, I'm tempted to get two as having them in different parts of the signal chain would be useful. 

 

Of course, digital fx pedals are more cost effective. But EQ is something I value having physical controls and 'what you see is what you get' as it is something quite dependent on the room and bandmates - sometimes needing adjusting mid gig, which is something I'd prefer if I can avoid doing with multi fx menu diving. 

 

 

[thisisswanbon]

I've always liked the idea of using these to tighten up lows, but I struggle to comprehend where they go in your chain!

 

To my underdeveloped brain, it makes more sense to go at the end of your chain to filter any effects units too, but when going to FOH it wouldn't hit your DI.  At the beginning of your chain just feels like it would suck all of the fundamental of your raw bass whilst not addressing the added lows from effects and preamp EQs...

[Al Krow]

59 minutes ago, thisisswanbon said:

I've always liked the idea of using these to tighten up lows, but I struggle to comprehend where they go in your chain!

 

To my underdeveloped brain, it makes more sense to go at the end of your chain to filter any effects units too, but when going to FOH it wouldn't hit your DI.  At the beginning of your chain just feels like it would suck all of the fundamental of your raw bass whilst not addressing the added lows from effects and preamp EQs...

 

I think there's an argument for both positions 

- at the start to clean up the low end crud from your bass to give a clean signal for your pedals to latch onto

- at the end to clean up low end crud introduced by the pedals and to tighten up the bass more generally.

 

May even be an argument for having two in the chain - although most would likely think that overkill? If you've got a cheap multifx e.g. a Zoom B1-4 you can include HPF even in your "clean" patches, so very possible to have two in the chain on that basis without taking up extra space / cost.

 

The HPF on our desk is pretty basic and kicks in at 100Hz across the board for any channels we engage it on. Maybe a touch too high and end up with the fundamental-suck you mention and which can remove the "feel" of the bass particularly for a more clubby set, although in terms of sound most of what we're hearing won't likely be the fundamental (ie first harmonic) but the second harmonic and up i.e. 62 Hz+ for the low B string.

 

I really do like the look of the Sine HPF - I think its feature set is considerably better compared to something like the fixed approx. 25Hz and below cut Thumpinator, which was an always on HPF on my board for years. If I get another one to use instead of the making do with our desk PA, it will likely be the Sine.

[fretmeister]

2 hours ago, thisisswanbon said:

I've always liked the idea of using these to tighten up lows, but I struggle to comprehend where they go in your chain!

 

To my underdeveloped brain, it makes more sense to go at the end of your chain to filter any effects units too, but when going to FOH it wouldn't hit your DI.  At the beginning of your chain just feels like it would suck all of the fundamental of your raw bass whilst not addressing the added lows from effects and preamp EQs...

 

 

I go last on my pedal board. I tried it at the beginning as well but I thought that didn't work with pedals so well. I felt like the pedals were designed to get a full signal from the bass and I wanted to preserve that, and then deal with flub after.

 

There's no harm taking a DI after it with a dedicated box, or from the amp head if it has one.

 

Although the amp EQ controls are after it, the amp cannot boost what isn't there. So if I boost at 65Hz centre freq the Thumpinator effectively narrows the Q because it has cut off everything under about 30Hz. If I remove the Thumpinator the bass control on the amp does lead to more lows, and more flub.

Edited November 13, 2023 by fretmeister

[Baloney Balderdash]

33 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

 

I go last on my pedal board. I tried it at the beginning as well but I thought that didn't work with pedals so well. I felt like the pedals were designed to get a full signal from the bass and I wanted to preserve that, and then deal with flub after.

 

There's no harm taking a DI after it with a dedicated box, or from the amp head if it has one.

 

Although the amp EQ controls are after it, the amp cannot boost what isn't there. So if I boost at 65Hz centre freq the Thumpinator effectively narrows the Q because it has cut off everything under about 30Hz. If I remove the Thumpinator the bass control on the amp does lead to more lows, and more flub.

And actually it doesn't just narrow the Q, it alters the frequency curve effected in a different a asymmetrical way that is different from simply narrowing the bandwidth affected, as it only limits the boost on the lower end frequency part of the affected EQ curve, which can be used for your advantage to dial in more punchy low end, without causing mud, as mentioned in the video linked to in the OP, referred to as the Pultec trick.

 

Pultec being a legendary mixing console, where you commonly would boost the Bass control, but then activate the build in HPF after it, resulting in a unique punchy, well defined and articulate, bass response.  

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Al Krow]

@fretmeister interesting point about whether pedals are "designed" to handle the very low end: e.g. an octave down dealing with a 41Hz low E fundamental = producing more flub at the 20Hz end and also several pedals double up as guitar pedals. But appreciate your experience was different here.

 

Max's (Thumpinator) advice was to put it at the start of the chain.

 

 

[tauzero]

13 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I go last on my pedal board. I tried it at the beginning as well but I thought that didn't work with pedals so well. I felt like the pedals were designed to get a full signal from the bass and I wanted to preserve that, and then deal with flub after.

 

Conversely, compressors in particular would compress the audible signal in response to a subsonic peak. I think it's one of those "whatever works for you" things with no right answer but something to be said for either approach.

[Stofferson]

Picked up the MegaPara from Sine Effects, Ordered Wednesday arrived Thursday!

 

Really tweakable and usable EQ!