Totally Underwhelmed

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

19 minutes ago, jazzyvee said:

Geddy Lee gets the thumbs up from me.🖕

I think you might be confusing Geddy with Leland.

Why did you stop at one album if you really liked MP?

[ezbass]

3 hours ago, sammybee said:

So could you suggest maybe something a little more 'accessible' by them?

Closer To The Heart

Spirit Of Radio

Time Stand Still

[Paolo85]

I guess it's a matter of taste, which is always fair enough. I wouldn't say I am a massive Rush fan but I do like their 70s stuff, I used to listen to it quite a bit in my early 20s and I like Geddy Lee.
Now, if the question is why a lot of people like him (or adore him) and you don't, a couple considerations may be helpful:
Space, rythm and groove, the way you get them for example from a funk/soul player, and the way the vast majority of bass players seem to enjoy it, are not a necessity in music. They are just one possible style out of many. Very very important in the history of pop music but maybe less of a thing in the history of music more broadly.
If you look at jazz through the hard bop period, most doublebass players would just play quarter notes with a swing - except for ballads. You find in my opinion way more space and rythmic variety in Geddy Lee.
As doublebass evolved, groove was not an immediate priority, at least to my understanding. Scott LaFaro with Bill Evans, while he could be seen as groovy in a way, mostly was trying to move the bass away from its role as rythmic section. This went quite far and during the free jazz period Monk lamented that he'd struggle to find a doblebass player who could "swing". Paradoxically, freeing the bass from keeping the time (that is just the beat, as it was originally) did pave the way for the introduction of groove in the modern sense but that was not the original intention.
If you look at classical music (which prog rock bands to an extent were trying to imitate) space is plentiful but groove is not a thing.
When I started playing as a metalhead I had no interest in groove. I guess I was more trying to create a "flow". I had very mixed feelings about groove and a band like Jamiroquay wold irritate me. Now I like funk but I think to a large extent this is function of the fact that I am back to playing the bass.
Also, I think an important consideration is that some players such as Geddy Lee or Steve Harris in my opinion cannot be disentangled from their songs. Bass and guitar riffs largely move together and are the pillar of the songs. There is no such thing as a bass line to be considered "in isolation" while somebody plays chords. In a way, if you like the song you like the bass line or viceversa.

[White Cloud]

6 hours ago, sammybee said:

I was asked to think about covering some 'Rush' (Geddy Lee)....

 

I was totally underwhelmed by what I heard in the bass department.

Fair enough, horses for courses.

 

Out of interest, who does impress you in the bass department? 

[Paolo85]

To summarise my post above with songs: there's a world of music that is not really about the groove

 

https://youtu.be/rARGPAkIcw4

 

(My favourite Rush song)

https://youtu.be/NJPAjiSX7Rk

 

https://youtu.be/NU9F126WCUc

 

[Skybone]

If you don't get it, you don't get it.  

 

If you get it though, it's a masterclass.

[tony_m]

Coincidentally, this just popped up on my FB feed via the "Basses I'd Like To Pluck" page...

 

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/how-geddy-lee-found-his-sound-with-rush

[diskwave]

Again as with so many good things in life especially music collaboration, its the sum of its parts.  Could never really get into them and grew up with them as a kid from when they first broke. My best friend at the time has had a deep musical love affair with them for 50 years. 

They are musically very clever and they are great 'rock' musicians but Geddy Lees playing and style of playing leaves me cold and empty inside. They are a monumental phenomenon with huge musical depth and gravitas who's music will be revered in 100's of years time .....For me? No thanks.

[sammybee]

1 hour ago, White Cloud said:

Out of interest, who does impress you in the bass department? 

There are too many great players out there to mention... a few that spring to mind who I rate.... Verdine White, Bootsy, Marcus Miller, Anthony Wellington, Chuck Rainey... I could go on all night.. but these give you a flavour of what I consider a good bassist. Often prominent in the song, but not overplaying

 

[sammybee]

55 minutes ago, Skybone said:

If you don't get it, you don't get it.  

 

If you get it though, it's a masterclass.

I really wish I could. I approached it with fresh ears, expecting to be blown away..but alas no, twas a very damp squib for me

[ezbass]

2 minutes ago, sammybee said:

I really wish I could. I approached it with fresh ears, expecting to be blown away..but alas no, twas a very damp squib for me

Fortunately, there is plenty of other music out there that you do like, Rush isn’t for everybody and it wasn’t for me for a long time (Geddy’s voice was a big barrier, but I’ve learnt to embrace it). Tell the band that you’d rather you didn’t play Rush tunes and why, plenty of other stuff, from other artists, to pick from.

[sammybee]

1 hour ago, Paolo85 said:

To summarise my post above with songs: there's a world of music that is not really about the groove

 

https://youtu.be/rARGPAkIcw4

 

(My favourite Rush song)

https://youtu.be/NJPAjiSX7Rk

 

https://youtu.be/NU9F126WCUc

 

I could understand, and indeed really enjoy that first one! Unfortunately (to my ears) the others were a bit too far out there!

[Baloney Balderdash]

I think that I could actually listen to Rush it and enjoy it, perhaps maybe possibly even learn to love it... if it weren't for those "cliché 80's heavy metal vocalist on constant helium air supply" vocals.

 

For sure killer musicians though, and not least Geddy Lee.

 

But those vocals just ruins everything completely.

 

For me it's kind of like an otherwise really delicious looking gourmet dish, but served with a steamy turd on top of it.

 

It's like nails on chalkboard to me, it doesn't just turn me off, I get almost physically ill every time he starts to sing, which is why I will never really get to learn to know Rush, sadly.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Wilco]

Listening to Geddy’s playing was the main reason I started playing bass ooh, 42 odd years ago. All this time later I still get the same enjoyment listening to his bass lines. The band had such a long career, there’s so much variety to what he played. The fact he was singing whilst playing some of those lines is astonishing. Not one to hang on to a certain period of Rush’s music (I admire the way they didn’t stand still musically), I actually think their last album Clockwork Angels was their best. Have a listen to the following bass parts (a very small selection) if you don’t know them:-

Twighlight Zone, Vital Signs, Digital Man, Big Money, Malignant Narcissism. 
 

Chris Squire was another of my favourites, but I’m not a Prog fanboy as Derek Forbes (early Simple Minds) & John Taylor (Duran Duran obviously) are others!!

 

Music is highly subjective (as are thoughts on musicians) which is kind of one of the great things about it all. 🙂

 

[nikon F]

i like G.L's vocals.

[White Cloud]

10 hours ago, sammybee said:

There are too many great players out there to mention... a few that spring to mind who I rate.... Verdine White, Bootsy, Marcus Miller, Anthony Wellington, Chuck Rainey... I could go on all night.. but these give you a flavour of what I consider a good bassist. Often prominent in the song, but not overplaying

 

Great players for sure! 

[BigRedX]

My interest in Rush lasted all of 4 days from seeing the gear-porn cover of "All The World's A Stage" in the new releases section of my local record shop on the Saturday to hearing the first few minutes of the copy of "2112" I borrowed from a friend at school on the Tuesday. I couldn't get past the voice. I tried a couple of other tracks at random just in case it had been done as an effect on the first song, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. By the time I had become more used to that style of singing via bands such as Placebo, I was no longer interested in the prog-rock noodling music.

[Paul S]

Another vote against the vocals, I just can't get past them so avoid listening to Rush at all costs now. 

 

I'm sure a lot of the stuff I enjoy would have folks reaching for the off switch - we're all different 🙂

Edited August 2, 2023 by Paul S

[NancyJohnson]

Sometimes I wonder whether the original posts on the occasional thread here are simply put up to disgruntle the masses.

 

Let's see.  First off, my Rush experience.  Saw them several times from the first UK tour (Hammersmith) through to one of the Wembley shows.  Genuinely like them as individuals, adore the rapport and chemistry.  My first Rush album purchase was All The World's A Stage on Canadian/Anthem import (double vinyl/triple gatefold), after which I went backwards to the first album; 2112, Caress Of Steel, Fly By Night, Rush.  Of the first four albums I only really connected with the tracks that featured in the live album and a lot of Caress Of Steel was frankly unlistenable (it still is).  Moving forward, I went up to Grace Under Pressure but probably only listened to it once (looking at the track listing a couple of moments ago I could recall how any of the songs went) and that was pretty much it.  I do have some live BluRays and enjoy these, although I'm not familiar with a lot of the material.  I don't have any issue with Geddy's voice.  Shrill at times, but it is what it is.  It's Rush.

 

Moving forward to Geddy's chops.  The bloke is off the scale.  I know it's all horses for courses, but within the prog/hard rock genre he's easily in the top five bassists ever.  I mean the guy is never going to fit into Living Colour or Nine Inch Nails, but he's easily up there with all the greats.  Just did a quick search for 'top rock bassists' on google and look at the list that comes back; there's a lot of big names there.  He's a country mile ahead of most of them.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by NancyJohnson
For the sake of clarity.

[sammybee]

4 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Sometimes I wonder whether the original posts on the occasional thread here are simply put up to disgruntle the masses.

I was/am genuinely curious to enquire if my reaction to Rush/Geddy Lee was 'just me' - I think this thread shows he's a bit Marmite, even some of their stuff to their fans is a bit variable.

[Rich]

All the folks complaining about the vocals... you do realised his voice has changed a lot since 2112, right? He couldn't hit those high notes now if he tried. The cackling witch is long gone! 

[ahpook]

"What about the voice of Geddy Lee
How did it get so high?
I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?"

"I know him and he does!"

"Well, you're my fact-checkin' 'cuz"

 

'Stereo' - Pavement

 

[gjones]

Technically challenging, mostly due to the stops, starts and changes in time signatures but, although I like a bit of Rock, not my cup of tea.

 

I like Geddy Lee though - he seems like a nice fella.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gjones

[Woodinblack]

54 minutes ago, sammybee said:

 I think this thread shows he's a bit Marmite, even some of their stuff to their fans is a bit variable.

 

They continually reinvented their sound over their 50 year run, so yes, it will be variable to a lot of people and like all groups it depends when you started listening. I started in 1980, so first heard 2112, went backwards and forwards up to hemispheres, was into them already when permenant waves came out, queued at the Portsmouth Virgin record shop to get Moving Pictures (the only record I have ever queued to get from an ordinary shop) and got everything from there to hold your fire  - didn't realy bother that much after that, as I was going in a different direction to them. But that is the way of changing direction, they never were going to be a group that just knocked out record after record of the same thing.

 

44 minutes ago, Rich said:

All the folks complaining about the vocals... you do realised his voice has changed a lot since 2112, right? He couldn't hit those high notes now if he tried. The cackling witch is long gone! 

 

Sadly yes it did. Which is why I didn't want to go and see their last tour, even though it woudl have been on my birthday, his singing voice matured fine but then didn't really work for a decade or so. for me.

[Doctor J]

For the type of music he plays, he's the final End of Level Boss. The funk bassists listed, fantastic as they are, would not do as good a job in Rush as Geddy did, just as Geddy would probably not flourish in their respective genres of employment. He's the right man for that Rush job in particular, but maybe people just don't like the job. Hate the game, not the player, brahs.

 

As for his vocals, I couldn't stand them until that Rush in Rio DVD came out. Based on a mate's recommendation, I thought I'd give it a try and, finally, Rush and their divisive music and vocals all clicked for me. Love the band now, from beginning to end. They're the best Rush-style band there has ever been and he's the best bassist they could ever have gotten for the music they ended up playing.