DGCF

[TeresaFR]

I'm increasingly considering tuning my 4 string Schecter SLS Evil Twin to D standard tuning, with a professional set-up using heavy gauge (50-75-95-110) Roto flats (I typically use standard 45-65-85-105 gauge) flats and wonder whether there's any thing I maybe should be aware of? The Evil Twin has a really thin neck, 38mm nut, 20mm depth at 1st fret, 22mm at 12th fret, modern "C" shape through neck. Thanks.

[Waddo Soqable]

I've tuned various "normal" 4 string basses down that far (and drop tunings too) with the same strings that happened to be on them anyway, in every case they worked fine with no fiddling about needed at all.  

Just tune it down and see what you think.. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Tuning your bass down, while using the appropriate gauge of string for that given tuning, should not increase tension on the neck, so you should be perfectly safe as long as you are sensible.

 

Also I would advice you to learn how to do your own setups, no guitar technician, no matter how experienced and skilled will know you personal preferences better than you, and it's not exactly rocket science (plenty of great guides only a Google or YouTube search away).

 

You can use this calculator to determine the gauge of strings for your new lower tuning that will approximately match the tension of the ones you have currently installed and tuned to E standard tuning: https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_tension_from_size.htm

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Lozz196]

In the years before I understood anything about string gauges or set ups a band I was in tuned to D and it never caused any problems.

[TeresaFR]

Thanks everyone, that's a good few things to consider. I guess one thing I should think on is how I feel about the tension difference of the strings on the bass I have in drop D, because clearly the low D is less taut than the other strings. Would I be happy with that across all strings? This is kinda relevant because I have two remaining unopen packs of standard gauge flats that I don't want going to waste if I just jump on to buying heavy gauge.

[TeresaFR]

On 01/08/2023 at 20:17, Waddo Soqable said:

I've tuned various "normal" 4 string basses down that far (and drop tunings too) with the same strings that happened to be on them anyway, in every case they worked fine with no fiddling about needed at all.  

Just tune it down and see what you think.. 

I just realised, on both my Schecters, they came with nickel round strings and I just switched them out for flats and never even gave much of a thought to the extra tension I was putting the necks under, so loosening all the strings for lower tuning probably won't screw them up either.

[Waddo Soqable]

Lower tuning, hence lower string tension, will put less "pull" on the neck naturally. Assuming string gauges are the same or v. similar. 

[TeresaFR]

14 hours ago, Waddo Soqable said:

Lower tuning, hence lower string tension, will put less "pull" on the neck naturally. Assuming string gauges are the same or v. similar. 

Yes, that was intended to be my point I could perhaps have been clearer though.

[TeresaFR]

Well, I ordered a set of heavy gauge flats (50-75-95-110) so looks like that's decided, I am going D standard. Let's hope I don't hate them!

[Andyjr1515]

The neck itself should be structurally fine with most reasonable changes of string tension and tuning. 

 

The thing that will be affected, however, is the neck relief and most major changes of either string gauge or tuning are improved by a check of the relief and, if necessary, a tweak of the trussrod.  The string tension pulls the neck into a small 'bow-and-arrow' bow and the trussrod counteracts that by creating a back bow resulting in an 'almost straight'** neck - and so if you down-tune a bass previously properly set up in standard tuning, the string tension will be less and the neck will be pulled back by the truss rod, potentially into a back-bow.

 

 

**'almost straight' because it is necessary to leave a teeny bit of bow-and-arrow bow (the relief)

 

Shout if you need a simple ABC of checking and adjusting the neck relief.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[TeresaFR]

48 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The neck itself should be structurally fine with most reasonable changes of string tension and tuning. 

 

The thing that will be affected, however, is the neck relief and most major changes of either string gauge or tuning are improved by a check of the relief and, if necessary, a tweak of the trussrod.  The string tension pulls the neck into a small 'bow-and-arrow' bow and the trussrod counteracts that by creating a back bow resulting in an 'almost straight'** neck - and so if you down-tune a bass previously properly set up in standard tuning, the string tension will be less and the neck will be pulled back by the truss rod, potentially into a back-bow.

 

 

**'almost straight' because it is necessary to leave a teeny bit of bow-and-arrow bow (the relief)

 

Shout if you need a simple ABC of checking and adjusting the neck relief.

Thanks, I might do, I can never tell whether the necks on any of my basses have been straight or not - they always look fine, but having never adjusted a truss rod even once in 15 years makes me wonder whether I'm missing problems. 

 

That being said, the string tension on the Ernie Ball nickels my Evil Twin came with was lower than the current set of flats, and the new set of flats in the new tuning should fall between the original tension and the current tension.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I had this issue with a G&L SB-2 Tribute. 

It came with a set of 50-110s on, and too much neck relief. The strings were absurdly stiff,  so I dropped it from E standard to D standard, primarily to take the pressure off of the neck. 

It actually settled rather wonderfully,  so I left well enough alone (for once!) 

I now just use a capo if I need any other standard tuning other than D standard.

[TeresaFR]

35 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

I had this issue with a G&L SB-2 Tribute. 

It came with a set of 50-110s on, and too much neck relief. The strings were absurdly stiff,  so I dropped it from E standard to D standard, primarily to take the pressure off of the neck. 

It actually settled rather wonderfully,  so I left well enough alone (for once!) 

I now just use a capo if I need any other standard tuning other than D standard.

I was contemplating doing the capo thing on the songs I'd been recording in E standard, then my keyboard guy left and now I'm just dropping everything not in drop D down into D standard because, why not? I'd been regretting not recording them like that anyway, so I may as well take advantage of the situation.  Glad to hear it all worked out nicely on your G&L.

[Andyjr1515]

On 09/08/2023 at 09:48, TeresaFR said:

Thanks, I might do, I can never tell whether the necks on any of my basses have been straight or not - they always look fine, but having never adjusted a truss rod even once in 15 years makes me wonder whether I'm missing problems. 

 

Fear not - other than a couple of scenarios, then the truss rod adjustment is rarely the difference between not being able to play a bass and being able to playing it OK.

 

But a properly set-up truss rod - all other things being equal - will generally make a bass play better and easier. 

 

And checking it is easy:

- Remember that what we are after, ideally, is that the neck is very-nearly-almost straight. 

- The big no-no is a back-bow, where the fretboard basically has a hump in the middle...this can lead to buzzing frets. 

- And the easiest way to check that you don't have a back bow is to make sure you have a teeny bit of forward bow-and-arrow bow.

 

So to check:

- (you may need a capo or a friend here)  Hold down the top string at the 1st fret and the 14th fret both at the same time. 

- While still holding those down, tap the string onto the fret nearest the middle (usually, around 5th or 6th fret)

-  Is there a perceptible gap between the string and fret (ie it 'taps') or is the string hard against that middle fret? 

 

If the string is hard against that middle fret, then the trussrod needs loosening.  For most basses, that means turning the adjuster anti-clockwise.  The general rule is turn it 1/8 turn, recheck and if still hard against the fret, then loosen it another 1/8th.  If there still no tangible gap when you tap the string after a 1/4 turn it is usually wise to ask (and asking here is fine).

 

But if, on the first check, there is a tangible gap, then it is about how big that gap is from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret.  Don't worry about feeler gauges, etc., near enough is good enough.

- if it is about the thickness of a business card or less, it is fine.   

- if the gap is much greater than the thickness of a business card, then the string tension is bowing the neck a touch too much and, for an ideal set-up, the truss rod needs tightening a touch to reduce that gap.  On most basses that means turning the adjuster clockwise.  It can be quite stiff to turn and so, if the gap on your bass is excessive, I would suggest you report back here and we can give you some more detailed guidance.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[Richard R]

We really should have recorded a video of the setup demonstration @Andyjr1515 gave at the last bass bash!

 

[Guest]

Tu seras peut être aussi obligé de remonter un peu l'action, car du 110 en D ça risque de friser ..

[Richard R]

1 hour ago, toonet said:

Tu seras peut être aussi obligé de remonter un peu l'action, car du 110 en D ça risque de friser ..

Merci pour vos messages. J’ai oublié la plupart de la Français que j’ai appris il y a 40 ans. Maintenant, je dois l’utiliser à nouveau, ce qui est une bonne chose.

(Corrected with MS Translator!)

[Rich]

1 hour ago, toonet said:

Tu seras peut être aussi obligé de remonter un peu l'action, car du 110 en D ça risque de friser ..

Veuillez rédiger vos messages en Anglais. Merci.