Fretless - Strings - Harmonics etc.

[Rayman]

So I’m on my (unlined) fretless journey, and every day is a learning curve.

 

A couple of questions for more experienced fretless players….

 

Musically I want to be able to play a relatively wide range of styles. I much prefer flats generally, but I’m finding the Rotosound Monels currently on the Dean a bit dull, and I’m struggling to get the sliding harmonics on them. I have a set of TIs on the way, which should be brighter, but do you think that rounds might be a better option for what I’m after? Are rounds better for harmonics? Are they a better option for a more versatile fretless sound?

 

The bass itself seems to have a ton of tonal options, it’s active and has lots of high and low cut and boost.

 

Any tips appreciated 

[Rodders]

I'm similar to you in that I use flats on fretted basses but I use nickel plated rounds on fretless basses, softer feel and less zing than steel but plenty of harmonics there. 

I've used my fretless P in a classic rock setting with NP rounds and it worked great, elsewhere my fretless jazz works in a country rock orginals setting. Overall I think NP rounds are more versatile than flats.

[Beedster]

Find the core tone you want and work on things from there, I prefer the core tone of flats on fretless, but find TIs a little too flexible for FL, while for example La Bella Deep Talkin' Flats would be way to stiff (and I'm no fan of nylon strings for anything other than a very specific tone, one that I certainly wouldn't think of as versatile in any way). I do have a fretless strung with rounds and there are moments where I prefer it them, but if I had to make the choice it would be flats. Good luck 👍

[Hellzero]

The Thomastik Flatwounds will be a major improvement over the dull monel strings as they are flatwounds that sound more opened than anything else in this category, but if you're looking for harmonics, you'll have to go roundwounds.

 

If you have a bit of patience, as they need to break in and it takes some time, try the Rotosound's RS66LD, they have all you're after.

 

That said the Labella White Nylon's are the best nylon strings for fretless as they don't sound plastic like all the other proposals in the nylon range (and they are roundwound inside the nylon).

 

You could also try the Elixir nickel plated and of course coated as they won't mark the fingerboard and sound excellent on fretless basses.

 

That said start unplugged with the strings and once you've found what you like, let the thunder get alive.

[Rayman]

Hmmm yep…. I’m going to try the TIs, they’re used already, so no harm in trying them for a bit. I feel like they’ll have more tonality about them than the Rotos. If I’m still not sure, there’s a new set of Newtone rounds knocking about here somewhere.

 

 It’s going to be a matter of trial and error I think.

[johnDeereJack]

I've used Roto 55's for fretless for years. They're stainless groundwounds, so you get that brightness without all the fretting noise associated with rounds, and you can slide notes and harmonics easily. 

[White Cloud]

I played unlined fretless for a number of years and always used rounds (Rotosound Swing no less). I found them far more zingy and dynamic.

 

I just don't get the current flatwound trend, especially on fretted basses. Hey ho, that's just me.  

[Rayman]

I’ve always preferred flats, except for rock, where they just don’t punch enough for me…. although, Steve Harris fans will disagree there….

 

I used to be into bright and zingy tones, Marcus style, but these days I wince at that amount of top end. So I’m trying to strike a happy medium with this fretless.

[Linus27]

I only play fretless and currently have 3 fretless basses. My fretless Jazz has LaBella Deep Talkin Black Nylon strings on it and they are very expressive with tension that's similar to rounds. It even says on the description that they are ideal for fretless and give long sustain. They are great for something like a Jazz or Stringray that is more articulate and cuts through a lot more.

 

My main gigging fretless Precision has La Bella Low Tension Flats which sound really warm but also punchy and expressive. The tension is similar if not a little more to rounds. They are super smooth and shiny. I was considering changing them but I get so many compliments on the tone that I'm just gonna keep them on. Even the first gig I played with them, I got 3 or 4 comp,moments and even my mother in law was at the gig seeing me play for the first time and said after that she has no idea what I'm doing but my bass sounded so big and amazing.

 

My other fretless Precision has Rotosound Jazz 77 Flats on it and I would probably say has the nicest, most natural tone. Warm round, punchy and can clank with the treble turned up. They do however have the highest tension which is why I just use this bass for recording only. When I recorded an EP last year, I tried all my basses in the studio and this one sounded the best, amazing in fact so everything was recorded with it. On some tracks though, I doubled up using the fretless Jazz with the La Bella Black Nylon strings because as I said earlier, these strings are very expressive so together it made quite an orchestral sound, cello like.

 

When I had my fretless Stingray, I really struggled to get a good tone out of it, that was until I strung it with a set of La Bella Deep Talkin Black Nylon string. The bass then came alive and I never looked back and it sounded wonderful.

 

If I get 5 mins together, I'll try and put together a recording of the 3 basses I do have with the 3 different strings so you can hear for yourself.

 

One thing also to consider is to really boost harmonics, a chorus pedal and reverb pedal makes them sound massive.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Linus27

[Linus27]

9 minutes ago, Rayman said:

I’ve always preferred flats, except for rock, where they just don’t punch enough for me…. although, Steve Harris fans will disagree there….

 

I used to be into bright and zingy tones, Marcus style, but these days I wince at that amount of top end. So I’m trying to strike a happy medium with this fretless.

 

I'm the same but it's also a conscious effort of my part and the band I'm playing in to separate the dynamics. Our singer/guitarist will stay in the high end with his guitar and also adds a lot of vocal harmonies and choir like effects. I play at the other end creating a warm deep rounded bass sound similar to a double bass. I'm a very melodic player but I use a lot of octave to fatten my tone. Our drummer, who only uses brushes then sits in the middle and even has his snare turned off on a lot of tracks and restricts his use of cymbals to stay away from the high end. 

[Beedster]

30 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

If I get 5 mins together, I'll try and put together a recording of the 3 basses I do have with the 3 different strings so you can hear for yourself.

 

I'm very keen to hear that also @Linus27

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Rayman said:

 It’s going to be a matter of trial and error I think.

 

That's the bottom line, informed trial and error is always the best bet 👍

[Beer of the Bass]

I have stainless steel groundwounds on my fretless, a set of Status ones that are quite a few years old. But it depends what you use a fretless bass for - these bring out the stereotypical fretless nature a little more than flats, and if you're using it as a main all-rounder bass I could see wanting to tone that down a little.

[franzbassist]

For me, it's La Bella white nylon flats on a fretless, and has been since pretty much they were introduced.  They are very versatile, aren't "thumpy" or dull at all, and have plenty of sustain right down to the low E and B. I love them.

 

[Beedster]

46 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

That's the bottom line, informed trial and error is always the best bet 👍

Although I actually think you're gonna need two fretless basses  

[tauzero]

I've tried flats on fretless, and gone back to rounds. Elites stainless 40-125 on all four 5-strings and 40-100 on the 4-string.

[Dan Dare]

I like Chromes on my fretless. They're a little brighter than many flats, but still smooth. I tend to put them on the fretless new and then switch them to a fretted when they've lost some brightness and acquired more of a traditional flats sound. I like the fact that they don't wear grooves in the board the way rounds do.

[Linus27]

Here are some sound samples of the different strings on my three different fretless basses. The strings in question are LaBella Deep Talking Black Nylon, LaBella Low Tension Flats and Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. Please note that this was just something I knocked together very quickly off the top of my head with a Tascam digital recorder stuck in front of the amp so its very crude so apologies for the bum notes and not so exciting bass lines

 

The first samples (A1, A2 and A3) are just a quick generic bass line that I was making up on the spot to show the three different strings. 

 

The second samples (B1, B2, B3) are the effects I use which is reverb and chorus and something played higher up the neck.

 

The third samples (C1, C2 and C3) is again something being made up on the spot but using an octave pedal.

 

To be fair, the differences are not huge but are noticeable. One of the basses sounded very smooth, balanced and creamy which was a nice surprise whilst another sounded a lot more Precision like than I was expecting. Anyway, hopefully it all works and you can get an idea on the differences.

 

A3

A2

A1

B1

B2

B3

C1

C2

C3

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Linus27

[Beedster]

47 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Here are some sound samples of the different strings on my three different fretless basses. The strings in question are LaBella Deep Talking Black Nylon, LaBella Low Tension Flats and Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. Please note that this was just something I knocked together very quickly off the top of my head with a Tascam digital recorder stuck in front of the amp so its very crude so apologies for the bum notes and not so exciting bass lines

 

The first samples (A1, A2 and A3) are just a quick generic bass line that I was making up on the spot to show the three different strings. 

 

The second samples (B1, B2, B3) are the effects I use which is reverb and chorus and something played higher up the neck.

 

The third samples (C1, C2 and C3) is again something being made up on the spot but using an octave pedal.

 

To be fair, the differences are not huge but are noticeable. One of the basses sounded very smooth, balanced and creamy which was a nice surprise whilst another sounded a lot more Precision like than I was expecting. Anyway, hopefully it all works and you can get an idea on the differences.

 

A3

 

A2

 

A1

 

B1

 

B2

 

B3

 

C1

 

C2

 

C3

 

 

 

Many thanks @Linus27, look forward to listening this evening 👍

[Boodang]

Flats I use on my fretless (I only play fretless); D'addario nylon (much brighter than the La Bellas),TI's obviously (you'll like those), and my fav which are the Galle Synthesis with nylon core (they're bright enough but not as much as the TIs but they have a great buttery feel).

[Rayman]

Thank you all so much! What a massive wealth of knowledge and information you all are!

 

Ace…. well TIs first, and I’ll go from there

[StickyDBRmf]

Wow. I used D'Addario nickel rounds on all my fretless basses. Same as any other bass I ever had. One string, work from there. I can't imagine using different strings on different basses. When I bought a shortscale bass, I couldn't get my D'Addarios, had to put something else on, and HATED it. Couldn't play it. Had to wait for the D'Addarios to come in. Different strings-it's like different underwear.

[GuyR]

I play a lot with harmonics and harmonic chords and like to be able to slide them as easily and effectively as possible when required. 
I have found DR Hi-beam stainless rounds to be the most compatible with that requirement, tension is ideal for me with 45-105/125 and they last for ages. I have them on my Godin A5, at least 3 years old and they remain zingy, full and rich. I have them on my fretless Jazzes too. The tone softens very nicely plucked over the fingerboard.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by GuyR

[Rayman]

5 hours ago, Linus27 said:

Here are some sound samples of the different strings on my three different fretless basses. The strings in question are LaBella Deep Talking Black Nylon, LaBella Low Tension Flats and Rotosound 77 Jazz Flats. Please note that this was just something I knocked together very quickly off the top of my head with a Tascam digital recorder stuck in front of the amp so its very crude so apologies for the bum notes and not so exciting bass lines

 

The first samples (A1, A2 and A3) are just a quick generic bass line that I was making up on the spot to show the three different strings. 

 

The second samples (B1, B2, B3) are the effects I use which is reverb and chorus and something played higher up the neck.

 

The third samples (C1, C2 and C3) is again something being made up on the spot but using an octave pedal.

 

To be fair, the differences are not huge but are noticeable. One of the basses sounded very smooth, balanced and creamy which was a nice surprise whilst another sounded a lot more Precision like than I was expecting. Anyway, hopefully it all works and you can get an idea on the differences.

 

A3

 

A2

 

A1

 

B1

 

B2

 

B3

 

C1

 

C2

 

C3

 

 

Stellar work sir

[alyctes]

Cobalt flats are worth a look.  I don't know if anyone other than EB make them.