Careers in music

[Paolo85]

I have no good advice to give on music but, for what I have seen in other "attractive" and overcrowded sectors me and my wife worked in, there are two main approaches to the problem:

Case A, the young adult is "all in". She does not want to do anything but playing. She think she'd be unhappy doing something else. Music is her joy and she'd be happy playing anything (weddings etc..). She is aware that few years down the line working odd hours would make it more difficult to spend time with her children should she have some but she accepts it.

If that's the case, I would not necessarily start with the assumption that it will be a low-pay career. It should be very clear that this could be the case but at the same time, during the "formative" period, I believe the assumption should be that one works strategically with with the objective of being one of the few that make a good living. This is not just because it may make it easier to be one of the few lucky ones, but also because that makes it more likely that one lands somewhere "at least ok" if things do not go according to plans. That could make a good case for a university as degrees, and the experiences and connections that go with them.

Case B, the young adult is very talented, but know that she could make a living in completely different sectors and be happy. She's unsure whether working as hard as a hedge fund guy and at odd hours to play pop hits at weddings would work for her. In that case, yes it could make sense to try for a few years, without uni, and see how it goes. That's what my guitar player did when we turned 18. He was a monster for his age. Played Malmsteen solos at age 15 and had an amazing feel. He tried the music business and did not like the travelling and the pop music as much as he thought he would.

I guess for this case B, music-related degrees where one gets transferable skills could also be a compromise. But maybe not.. one could reasonably be of they mind that either they play, actually play, not teach, produce etc.. or they may as well study medicine or whatever.

 

 

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, ambient said:

Maybe. But having a portfolio of music related skills will help even more. 

 

But they have to be the right related skills. 

 

As I mentioned in my previous post I work in another creative industry - graphics - and in the days when I was still working for advertising agencies, the graphic design graduates we employed would spend most of their first 6 months unlearning most of what they had been taught at university and learning the correct way to apply their artistic skills in a real-world environment. It's not good being able to produce cutting-edge creative design when most of the people paying you are going to be very mundane with mundane products and tastes.The same, from what I have seen, applies to every creative occupation.

 

Interestingly of all the people I have worked with the ones who have the biggest artistic success are those with no formal arts or graphics education, but who were entirely self-taught, and had the required get up and go to make it happen by themselves.

[ambient]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

But they have to be the right related skills. 

 

As I mentioned in my previous post I work in another creative industry - graphics - and in the days when I was still working for advertising agencies, the graphic design graduates we employed would spend most of their first 6 months unlearning most of what they had been taught at university and learning the correct way to apply their artistic skills in a real-world environment. It's not good being able to produce cutting-edge creative design when most of the people paying you are going to be very mundane with mundane products and tastes.The same, from what I have seen, applies to every creative occupation.

 

Interestingly of all the people I have worked with the ones who have the biggest artistic success are those with no formal arts or graphics education, but who were entirely self-taught, and had the required get up and go to make it happen by themselves.

My BMus course and every course I’ve taught on have made a point of instilling in the students the requirement to have a portfolio of skills, and teaching those skills.

 

On my BMus I learned to compose and arrange string, brass and small orchestra parts. We deconstructed and rearranged songs, changing their genre. We learned the ins and outs of producing using a DAW. 
 

Performance-wise the emphasis was on our own instrument. We also did vocals, percussion and piano.

 

In the final year we could choose whether to do events management or study for a Rock School instructor qualification.

 

So, a whole gamut of skills.

 

The course I’m currently teaching on is very similar, though it also has a big element of live sound production, something my BMus didn’t have. Where I work has its own professional standard live music venue.

 

[Guest]

No right answer so I'll throw some other thoughts out there though reading through the responses, I do think @Paolo85 makes some very good points. 

 

1. How much will a degree cost? Probably tens of thousands of pounds with the burden of paying it all off over many, many, many years.  

 

2. Will that be a good investment? Will it help get a higher income? A more interesting work opportunity? Will it open doors? Is it required? It might be for teaching but then I'd be careful about going into teaching because of a passion for the subject. Teaching is a lot of crowd control, paperwork, investing in teenagers who don't necessarily want to be there while delivering the same repetitive, relatively low level subject matter. I was a secondary school Maths teacher and I loved the interaction with most of the students, hated most of the parents, got bogged down by the paperwork and then bored by doing the same thing year in, year out. I just couldn't see myself doing the same thing for the next 40 years and headed out to IT.  

 

3. What is your daughters appetite for risk? Is she happy to put tens of thousands of pounds on the roulette wheel and see what comes up? If she is in lowly paid, menial jobs or dreary jobs paying off debts that got her nowhere, will she regret it or just embrace the roll of the dice and keep going?  

 

4. What matters most? Head or heart? Everything above is generally about thinking it out straight but sometimes you just have to follow what your heart tells you. You only live once. Which do you prefer - to regret the things you did that didn't work out or regret the things you didn't do? 

 

It isn't an easy decision to make which is why I think @Paolo85 response is a useful one. Perhaps it isn't a decision that needs to be made straight away. Enjoy being young, try things out, see what she enjoys and perhaps things will become clearer. Good luck whatever she chooses. 

[baldwinbass]

On 16/08/2023 at 20:14, Fishfacefour said:

Not all music degrees are the same

And of course it's for the individual to find the right path to success - in whatever way they define that.

After our oldest daughter got her music degree a few years ago it undoubtedly helped her to progress. She has continued with her own band, whilst also working at a 'desk job' as a music management freelancer. 

A degree/qualification is a good stepping stone and worth the effort in the long run.

 

[dodge_bass]

Good luck to her. Having worked professionally as a freelance musician for 20 years I ‘got out’ last year and it was the best decision ever. It’s great in your 20s - your overheads are relatively low and you’re happy to be out playing / rehearsing / travelling all the time and you might make a little money. But as you go on it’s clear that there isn’t really much progression in the freelance world.  Gigs generally pay pretty poorly when you break it down to an hourly rate and most work is precarious as best. Fine in your 20s but less fun in your 30s and onwards when you want to get a mortgage, settle down a bit more and have more reliability / stability in your life.
 

I’d advise her to consider whether she might find another job that would facilitate her to do the music she loves rather than having to take on every thing she gets offered as a freelance musician and still be broke! 
 

 

 

[SteveXFR]

8 hours ago, dodge_bass said:

Good luck to her. Having worked professionally as a freelance musician for 20 years I ‘got out’ last year and it was the best decision ever. It’s great in your 20s - your overheads are relatively low and you’re happy to be out playing / rehearsing / travelling all the time and you might make a little money. But as you go on it’s clear that there isn’t really much progression in the freelance world.  Gigs generally pay pretty poorly when you break it down to an hourly rate and most work is precarious as best. Fine in your 20s but less fun in your 30s and onwards when you want to get a mortgage, settle down a bit more and have more reliability / stability in your life.
 

I’d advise her to consider whether she might find another job that would facilitate her to do the music she loves rather than having to take on every thing she gets offered as a freelance musician and still be broke! 
 

 

 

 

Thanks. That's something we've talked about. She's also be offered an apprenticeship as a veterinary nurse so maybe that plus session work on the side might be an option. 

I think I'd be happiest to see her in a stable job and enjoying music with her band, I may be biased but I think they have potential as an alt rock originals group with some real talent. But it's all her choice as long as she can pay for a nice care home for me!

[dodge_bass]

16 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Thanks. That's something we've talked about. She's also be offered an apprenticeship as a veterinary nurse so maybe that plus session work on the side might be an option. 

I think I'd be happiest to see her in a stable job and enjoying music with her band, I may be biased but I think they have potential as an alt rock originals group with some real talent. But it's all her choice as long as she can pay for a nice care home for me!

Honestly, IMO, this would be perfect. Stable job and good income that supports her to focus on the aspects of music she really loves. I suspect she’ll be happier and creatively the world will be better off too as she’ll be able to pour time and energy into what she really loves doing. 

[BigRedX]

The problem is that employers even for McJobs expect their job to be more important than anything else in an employees life which makes trying to simultaneously run any "career" in music almost impossible. If you're lucky you will be able to do weekend gigs down the pub with a covers band, but IME for just about everything else the important gigs (as either a band or a session player) tend to be the ones that you pick up with almost no notice.

[dodge_bass]

11 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The problem is that employers even for McJobs expect their job to be more important than anything else in an employees life which makes trying to simultaneously run any "career" in music almost impossible. If you're lucky you will be able to do weekend gigs down the pub with a covers band, but IME for just about everything else the important gigs (as either a band or a session player) tend to be the ones that you pick up with almost no notice.

Perhaps, though not always true depending upon career direction . My job is remote and flexible allowing me, for the most part, to do most things I want to musically whilst also holding down a job. I specifically chose it because of this - so it is totally feasible  Just one of many things to consider I guess. 

[Rosie C]

On 16/08/2023 at 18:35, SteveXFR said:

We had discussed this in the past and come to the conclusion that it would be a rewarding career but pretty low paid so maybe not worth investing in university. Had we got it wrong?

 

There is a middle-way. I'm currently studying for a music degree at the Open University - it's distance learning, and can be done part-time (16 hours per week) over six years. I happen to be a "mature" student, but I think it would have worked well for me when I was younger.

[NHM]

My son went through a music conservatiore, got amazing results but now is working on an Accountancy apprenticeship getting well paid and having masters-level study paid for by his employer. In a year's time he will be fully qualified and will probably earning more than me when I retired! I know money isn't everything  but he enjoys the maths and accepts the compromise of a 'dullish' career, as it has taken all the pressure off him by having a steady and secure income. His music is now his hobby. He doesn't regret the study/debt, he says it was a great thing to do, but doing the apprenticeship has got his career back into a steady state and frees him up top pick and choose what music work he does in his spare time.

[dodge_bass]

3 minutes ago, NHM said:

My son went through a music conservatiore, got amazing results but now is working on an Accountancy apprenticeship getting well paid and having masters-level study paid for by his employer. In a year's time he will be fully qualified and will probably earning more than me when I retired! I know money isn't everything  but he enjoys the maths and accepts the compromise of a 'dullish' career, as it has taken all the pressure off him by having a steady and secure income. His music is now his hobby. He doesn't regret the study/debt, he says it was a great thing to do, but doing the apprenticeship has got his career back into a steady state and frees him up top pick and choose what music work he does in his spare time.

THIS

[SteveXFR]

3 hours ago, Rosie C said:

 

There is a middle-way. I'm currently studying for a music degree at the Open University - it's distance learning, and can be done part-time (16 hours per week) over six years. I happen to be a "mature" student, but I think it would have worked well for me when I was younger.

 

I did an engineering degree through OU. It was f*****g hard

[mike257]

There's definitely viable careers to be had, and while you're young and have no significant financial commitments or dependents is the best time to have a proper crack at it. 

 

I came the long way round, and after dabbling in the industry when younger, I left a "sensible" job of 7 years at the age of 28 to come back to working in the music industry. 

 

Its a lot of hustling and you have to have a bit of a "portfolio career" and be open to doing different things. 

 

I started out with a mix of function band playing, sound engineering and driving vans for bands. Got busy enough with both that one had to give, so I stepped back from playing and shifted to the production side fully, and I now predominantly work as a tour manager, production manager and monitor engineer (with occasional bits of stage management, backline teching and FOH).

 

Whatever you're doing, it takes a few years to build a network and professional reputation but there's work out there for the taking. I'm typing this from a dressing room at Reading Festival now, waiting around to look after a headliner on one of the stages here, and I'm just a blagger from Liverpool who got lucky, so if she's actually talented, the world is her oyster 😉