Active electronics?? Real differences?

[Jamesemt]

I've only recently been converted to active, and am starting to get ideas together for a custom build.

Are there many real differences with active pickups/preamps?

I've only used EMG pickups - are they 'typical' of most active gear?

If this has been asked before then can anyone point me towards the thread?

[Dubs]

Not sure I can help I terms of identifying the differences between different brands, but I started a thread about the differences between 9V and 18V preamps – might be some help to you?

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35505"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35505[/url]

Edited May 5, 2009 by benwhiteuk

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='480190' date='May 5 2009, 05:57 PM']Not sure I can help I terms of identifying the differences between different brands, but I started a thread about the differences between 9V and 18V preamps – might be some help to you?

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35505"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35505[/url][/quote]

That was quite informative cheers!!

Anyone else?

[umph]

better signal strength, high impedence, less likely to pick up noise, more flexible etc etc.

[~tl]

EMGs are unusual in the fact that they are special low impedance pickups with built in pre-amps that are then fed through a normal-ish passive volume/tone circuit (unless you also have one of their "systems" installed which give active treble/mid/bass controls as well). "Normal" active systems use standard, high-impedance, pickups (the kind you get in a passive bass) coupled with an active pre-amp and active tone controls on a board that's separate from the pickups. There is more choice that you can shake a proverbial stick at when it comes to pre-amp/pickup combinations – so as you can imagine the range of tones available is pretty vast. The quality of pre-amps varies greatly, but most of the after-market ones are of a high standard. Most pre-amps are either have treble & bass controls (2-band) or treble, middle & bass (3-band). The exact sound of each control (i.e. the exact frequencies they boost/cut) and what extras you get (bright switches, passive modes, semi-parametric mids, etc) vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[url="http://east-uk.com/"]John East[/url]'s designs are highly praised and he also makes Alan's [url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/"]ACG EQ 02[/url] which is a strange beast. Rather than the traditional layout it's a "filter" based design that's hard to explain and gives rise to some interesting sonic possibilities (but takes a bit of getting used to). I have the ACG in my Precision V and it's a truly versatile beast. The [url="http://sadowsky.com/"]Sadowsky[/url] pre-amp also gets good reviews and there are many others to choose from ([url="http://glockenklang.de/"]Glockenklang[/url], [url="http://www.audereaudio.com/"]Audere[/url] and [url="http://www.bartolini.net/"]Bartolini[/url] spring to mind). Of course, you could couple any of them with any type of pickups – so the choice is not even that simple. The first thing to decide on is whether you want a 2-band or 3-band layout (or something in the middle like the ACG), what sort of price you want to spend, and go from there.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='~tl' post='480299' date='May 5 2009, 07:41 PM'][url="http://east-uk.com/"]John East[/url]'s designs are highly praised and he also makes Alan's [url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/"]ACG EQ 02[/url] which is a strange beast. Rather than the traditional layout it's a "filter" based design that's hard to explain and gives rise to some interesting sonic possibilities (but takes a bit of getting used to).[/quote]

Is that what Entwhistle's buzzard has in that mmade it sound like a wah when he turns the knobs?

[steve-soar]

[quote name='~tl' post='480299' date='May 5 2009, 07:41 PM']EMGs are unusual in the fact that they are special low impedance pickups with built in pre-amps that are then fed through a normal-ish passive volume/tone circuit (unless you also have one of their "systems" installed which give active treble/mid/bass controls as well). "Normal" active systems use standard, high-impedance, pickups (the kind you get in a passive bass) coupled with an active pre-amp and active tone controls on a board that's separate from the pickups. There is more choice that you can shake a proverbial stick at when it comes to pre-amp/pickup combinations – so as you can imagine the range of tones available is pretty vast. The quality of pre-amps varies greatly, but most of the after-market ones are of a high standard. Most pre-amps are either have treble & bass controls (2-band) or treble, middle & bass (3-band). The exact sound of each control (i.e. the exact frequencies they boost/cut) and what extras you get (bright switches, passive modes, semi-parametric mids, etc) vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[url="http://east-uk.com/"]John East[/url]'s designs are highly praised and he also makes Alan's [url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/"]ACG EQ 02[/url] which is a strange beast. Rather than the traditional layout it's a "filter" based design that's hard to explain and gives rise to some interesting sonic possibilities (but takes a bit of getting used to). I have the ACG in my Precision V and it's a truly versatile beast. The [url="http://sadowsky.com/"]Sadowsky[/url] pre-amp also gets good reviews and there are many others to choose from ([url="http://glockenklang.de/"]Glockenklang[/url], [url="http://www.audereaudio.com/"]Audere[/url] and [url="http://www.bartolini.net/"]Bartolini[/url] spring to mind). Of course, you could couple any of them with any type of pickups – so the choice is not even that simple. The first thing to decide on is whether you want a 2-band or 3-band layout (or something in the middle like the ACG), what sort of price you want to spend, and go from there.[/quote]This is the kind of reply that should be in a "Basschat Gold" section, informative, clear, impartial and well researched.

[Kiwi]

FWIW, I'm going off the idea of active electronics and especially EMG pickups.

I've had a load of active eqs in my instruments over the years and none of them could compensate very well for crappy stage acoustics or poor wood selection by the luthier. I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that all the eq-ing should be taken care of by the amp anyway, not the bass. If the bass sounds crap then change the bass or maybe change the amp but there's no point in making a silk purse out of a sows ear.

After having EMG's in my Spector(s) I'm going off the idea of their colouring too. They're [i]practical[/i] pickups but coloured and they suck some of the dynamics out of the instrument.

[budget bassist]

personally i like active onboard preamps, you can change the sound at your fingertips, plus i've never liked the sound of a passive bass much, no amp EQing will change that, they just tend to sound dull and thuddy and you have no real control over the sound, at least not from the bass end. Not my style.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='479888' date='May 5 2009, 02:38 PM']I've only recently been converted to active, and am starting to get ideas together for a custom build.

Are there many real differences with active pickups/preamps?

I've only used EMG pickups - are they 'typical' of most active gear?

If this has been asked before then can anyone point me towards the thread?[/quote]

Funny that, but I've been mulling the same question over in my mind today. There definitely seem to be active and passive fans out there, but it's really just down to taste and how much money you're willing to spend. You could go for some nice, warm sounding alnico passive pickups but have a good active tone circuit you can switch in and out should you need to dial in a different sound or tweak the bass to match the venue/song/mood. Then you'll have the best of both worlds.

EMGs are a bit of both, being clearer and more efficient (or colder and more clinical if you're into passive basses) but without the extra flexibility. The ACG preamp isn't as weird as it sounds - it's a bit like getting the right tone by using a wah wah pedal so it's a bit more intuitive and 'alive' feeling, but it's a bit more difficult if you just want the natural sound of the bass with say, a bit of a treble boost or bass rolled off. Hope this hasn't confused you too much, 'cos I am....

[BigRedX]

Apart from esoteric designs like the ACG filter pre-amp, electronics on basses offer nothing that your amp's controls ought to be able to do better.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='480435' date='May 5 2009, 10:05 PM']Apart from esoteric designs like the ACG filter pre-amp, electronics on basses offer nothing that your amp's controls ought to be able to do better.[/quote]

this brings me to anthony jacksons concept...

[url="http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html"]http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html[/url]

an instrument all about the woods and metals with a single high quality pickup going through some seriously powerful amplification. (and an equally serious price tag....)

the problem is that if you have a very flat/sterile amplifier (if (heaven forbid) you're using house equipment for instance) and you have no onboard EQ, you find yourself stuck with a sound you're unhappy with. Active EQ gives you more options IMO, by allowing greater manipulation of your bass sound.

Active circuit with a proper active bypass (with passive tone controls) is the way to go IMHO.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='480535' date='May 5 2009, 11:35 PM']Active EQ gives you more options IMO, by allowing greater manipulation of your bass sound.[/quote]
Well that's the thing for me, I don't think it does! Most onboard eq's aren't sophisticated enough to compensate for stage acoustics. They were first used before tweeters were built into cabs and back line was pretty lo-fi by comparison to todays equipment. So back in the 70's it did make a difference to have that extra boost at either end of the frequency spectrum. But with brands like the Hartke, Behringer and Peavey being so affordable, is there any need for it?

If you use it to help emulate the sounds of other basses most of them are passive anyway and dependent more on pickup design and placement than what kind of eq is onboard. If you have to use it to get your bass to sound right before you start playing then you've got the wrong tool for the job and even if you choose to use it mid set because you can't hear yourself then it buggers up the levels on the FOH desk.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='480400' date='May 5 2009, 09:24 PM']...plus i've never liked the sound of a passive bass much, no amp EQing will change that, they just tend to sound dull and thuddy and you have no real control over the sound, at least not from the bass end. Not my style.[/quote]

You really do need to try a GOOD passive bass!

Alex

[alexclaber]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='480535' date='May 5 2009, 11:35 PM']this brings me to anthony jacksons concept...

[url="http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html"]http://www.fodera.com/a_jackson.html[/url]

an instrument all about the woods and metals with a single high quality pickup going through some seriously powerful amplification. (and an equally serious price tag....)

the problem is that if you have a very flat/sterile amplifier (if (heaven forbid) you're using house equipment for instance) and you have no onboard EQ, you find yourself stuck with a sound you're unhappy with. Active EQ gives you more options IMO, by allowing greater manipulation of your bass sound.

Active circuit with a proper active bypass (with passive tone controls) is the way to go IMHO.[/quote]

If you have a very flat amplifier (not sterile) then you will hear the true sound of the bass. And if the bass sounds good then it will sound good once amplified. Anthony Jackson uses a high-end mic preamp with totally flat frequency response and essentially zero distortion which then goes through Meyer Sound cabs (which have as flat response and as low distortion as is possible from loudspeakers) and I'm sure he sounds great.

I do the same thing on a lower budget (though with two pickups and 4-way switch giving me four starting points for my sound) with Q-Tuner passive pickups, Avalon U5 preamp, QSC PLX power amp and my own Barefaced Big One speaker cab. There is as little colouration as possible from the output jack of the bass to the sound hitting my ears and it sounds consistently fantastic.

Let me put it another way - do cellists and classical guitarists need EQ to sound good or give them a range of sounds? So why should we?

Alex

[alexclaber]

P.S. I really do like good active electronics, I just don't need it. But I can't stand the proliferation of cheap active electronics when the money would be better spent on superior pickups.

Alex

[dub]

EMGs are good pickups, but it would be worth checking out some others to compare the different tones.

The best idea is to go to some shops with a good preamp and headphones, try a lot of basses and take notes on pickups, pickup placement, electronics, woods and strings.

That doesn't mean that you'll be able to recreate an individual bass, but you'll get an idea. Each piece of wood is unique. If you find a bass that sounds fantastic to your ears, then buy it.

If you want a brighter sound on your existing bass, try elixir strings.

The advantage of active electronics is the ability to boost frequencies rather than cut them. There is also a closer match to the input impedance of most modern amps and DIs.

There's a lot of choice in preamps now, and it really is down to personal taste.

Out of the ones I've used I think the John East and Aguilar preamps are excellent. They also both make an external preamp which is a good thing to have if you like your passive bass but want to try active electronics without altering the bass.

Edited May 6, 2009 by dub

[simon1964]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='480639' date='May 6 2009, 08:31 AM']You really do need to try a GOOD passive bass!

Alex[/quote]

You may have a point! I've always liked active electronics, and felt they give me more versatility. With my Shuker, the active/passive option was a bit of an afterthought if I'm honest, but I've actually found myself using the passive tone more and more.

[Delberthot]

I was a huge fan of active electronics for a number of years but got fed up turning controls constantly to try and get a decent sound so I went back to a single passive pickup with a simple volume and tone control and let the amp do the work.

Active EQ can be a problem with active EQ, EQ type pedals and amps - you can end up boosting a frequency on your bass, cutting it on a pedal and then boosting it on your amp when simply using one control on your amp would suffice. Why do you think a sound engineer wants a DI, directly from the bass when he can? its so he can take the sound and tailor it to the room without it going through 10 processors before getting to his.

[sifi2112]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='480639' date='May 6 2009, 08:31 AM']You really do need to try a GOOD passive bass!

Alex[/quote]Well put Alex !!
Not a fan of 'active' myself (EMG's seem to 'honk' a bit to me) .. Bongo I 'had' had an awesome preamp but still prefer passive (singles) ..

my 2c

Simon

[bassbloke]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='480648' date='May 6 2009, 08:38 AM']P.S. I really do like good active electronics, I just don't need it. But I can't stand the proliferation of cheap active electronics when the money would be better spent on superior pickups.

Alex[/quote]

+1,000,000

Plenty of manufacturers are guilty of selling basses with atrocious pickups and a fancy active circuit to compensate. I remember a Bass Player article with Rick Turner where he pretty much stated that if you're spending less than USD1500 on a bass, stick to passive because the electronics will suck.

[johnnylager]

I'm a recent active convert - Spector [EMG's with Tone Pump] & KSD [unknown with EBS pre], +/- pre-EB 'Ray. I think they're great and they work really well for me in my bands. Not for everyone though, I guess. I like the increased volume, more bass & the way they drive me amp.

[umph]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='483530' date='May 9 2009, 06:53 AM']+1,000,000

Plenty of manufacturers are guilty of selling basses with atrocious pickups and a fancy active circuit to compensate. I remember a Bass Player article with Rick Turner where he pretty much stated that if you're spending less than USD1500 on a bass, stick to passive because the electronics will suck.[/quote]
it doesn't cost a grand to design and make a good simple buffer ;<

[henry norton]

It's interesting how nobody's talked about the tonal range inherent in the most important and influential part of bass playing - the bass player and his/her fingers! I went from a (very complicated back in 1990) Stingray 5 with a 3 band EQ and a series/parallel/single switch back to a bog standard Precision (with a decent DiMarzio pickup) and I'm convinced it made me a better, more dynamic and sensitive player. Having said that, regarding the Anthony Jackson bass, he is really a 'one sound' bass player, and although his is a very good (and pioneering) sound, not many of us can afford to change our strings every week!!!!

[quote name='sifi2112' post='483188' date='May 8 2009, 07:07 PM']Not a fan of 'active' myself (EMG's seem to 'honk' a bit to me) .. Bongo I 'had' had an awesome preamp but still prefer passive (singles) ..

my 2c

Simon[/quote]

My EMG pickup doesn't smell at all - maybe you got a duffer there

[Kiwi]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='480646' date='May 6 2009, 08:37 AM']do cellists and classical guitarists need EQ to sound good or give them a range of sounds? So why should we?

Alex[/quote]
Because they don't have sound engineers eq-ing the FOH to be bass heavy?! EMG record OK but live they do lack something.