Phil Jones Double Four alternative anyone?

[Paddy Morris]

Morning all.  I've had a PJ Two Four for a few years now.   There's no doubting that they are a very clever piece of kit.

 

But I've gone off it. The tone is so highly tuned that it's a permanent feedback hazard at the sort of small room gigs it was designed for.  At outdoor busking gigs, no feedback. But the tone is all that muddy, plumby boxy stuff that makes an upright sound like a cheap Hofner McCartney bass copy.  Or at least, it does for me.

 

Given that the design is a few years old now, and amp designers are clever people, I was wondering if there's anything else out there now that does this job better.  The Two Four is incredibly compact, but it's actually more compact than it needs to be for me. I'd be happy with something twice as big (still very small, after all) but with a nicer, more neutral tone.

 

Has anyone discovered a new killer compact combo?

[NickA]

I thought the double 4 was intended as a practice amp?  Just not enough surface area to project double bass frequencies any distance ( ie why the double bass itself is so big!)

 

I've got a pjb the flight case  (4x 5") but even that is supposed to be used near a rear wall for bass reinforcement.  It's very good with double bass tho still a bit quiet for anywhere bigger than a small pub.

 

And as per another similar thread, all these tiny class d amps ( elf's gnomes etc ) paired with a modern light cab ( Barefaced, GR ) combine sound with portability too.  Worth checking out.

[jrixn1]

14 hours ago, Paddy Morris said:

Morning all.  I've had a PJ Two Four for a few years now.

 

You asked about amps last year and received a few replies - but I'm not sure you followed up.  Did you try any of those suggestions (just so we don't go round in circles)?

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/467819-boomy-amp-issues/?do=findComment&comment=4833787

[Paddy Morris]

It's true. I did ask last year. I had actually forgotten that I did.

 

But the quest to get a decent amplified sound from a difficult instrument seems never-ending to me.  And I work on the principle that everyone is here because they're broadly interested in the subject, so there's no harm in asking.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Paddy Morris

[jrixn1]

I'm not saying don't ask - apologies if it came across like I was discouraging discussion.  You received good suggestions, including: variable HPF, powered speakers, GK combos, a larger Phil Jones, Markbass - I'm wondering if you had any luck with any of those? Otherwise you might just receive the same suggestions each time.  There are indeed some new killer combos out there like carbon GR Bass and Markbass's MB58R lines, but they won't solve your problems of boxy sound and feedback - they still have the same EQ options and limitations as less cutting-edge combos. They are just lighter in weight.

[Paddy Morris]

All true. There's loads of amp threads I could go at, including my own previous ones.

 

Part of the difficulty is that you only have the recommendations of other players to go on.  The gear is too expensive to just buy on spec.  And most music stores don't have a double bass avaliable for you to try out an amp.

[JoeEvans]

I've started using a Turbosound iP300 for DB instead of a bass amp, with a Prodipe mic and an ART Tube pre-amp. It's the first time I've been really happy with an amplified sound.

[Paddy Morris]

That's good to know.  I just had a quick look at the IP300. That's a pretty convenient-sized rig if you're getting a sound you like 

[JPJ]

The one that always amazes me is the little TC Electronics BG250 208 - a 2 x 8” combo that just loves my NS NXT EUB. I’ve used mine for personal monitoring and for back line on ‘acoustic’ gigs and I am constantly amazed by how open and natural it makes the NS sound. They often pop up on here used for not a lot of money and are well worth the outlay. I have upgraded the speakers in mine to get the full 250W in a one hand lift small box. 

[Marty Forrer]

A GK MB200 head with a Barefaced 1x10 works for me. For big gigs a GK MB500 with a Barefaced 2x10 will handle anything, and still light as a light thing.

[adriansmith247]

I use EA amps and cabs (now discontinued) EA micro head is 500W at around 3lbs while the 10" cab with a neo driver is pretty light too. I never really need much more but if I do I have a 4 ohm 12" Whizzy Cab. They were the best for double bass for some time. In fact their iamp 350 head is still considered one of the best amps every made for DB (heavy though)

[tinyd]

On 23/08/2023 at 11:26, JPJ said:

The one that always amazes me is the little TC Electronics BG250 208 - a 2 x 8” combo that just loves my NS NXT EUB. I’ve used mine for personal monitoring and for back line on ‘acoustic’ gigs and I am constantly amazed by how open and natural it makes the NS sound. They often pop up on here used for not a lot of money and are well worth the outlay. I have upgraded the speakers in mine to get the full 250W in a one hand lift small box. 

There's a guy on Talkbass who recommended a Warwick Gnome + TC BC208, which is along the lines of what you're describing. I reckon I'm going to try that combination when I scrape some cash together....

[Bloopdad1]

My go to double bass solution is a Acoustic Image Clarus II coupled to a Barefaced Super Midget (1x12).

The built-in HPF on the Clarus is superb (plus no need for a preamp) 

Loads of headroom, great arco sound too. 

(using either a Realist or a twin sensor Yamahiko on my old English bass). 

Great stuff. 

[JPJ]

There is an absolute steal of a bargain on a TC BG250 208 in the for sale section right now, only £125 and you can't go wrong at that money. Note, I am not affiliated with the seller in anyway. Just highlighting it here for interested parties.

 

[Graynote]

I use a TC electronics BG250 208 as a small drummerless gig highly portable combo. I also sit down fairly low when playing so can use it as a stool…

works well for EUB and double bass gigs.  Also for electric bass gigs but sometimes put some sort of pre amp in front of it if I want a less ‘pure’ tone for electric bass.

 

For anything a little louder, up to stupidly loud, I use one of my acoustic image heads, but they have recently ceased manufacturing as the founder Rick Jones tragically died recently.

Best sounding DB amps I have ever played, and I’ve tried most of those mentioned in the thread.  Worth looking out for one second hand if you can find one.

 

I used to use some cabs I made myself that were like a handmade individually tuned version of the EA wizzy cab (I tuned them side by side with a wizzy until it sounded better than the wizzy).

 

However I recently got really obsessed by weight and now use an Eich 12’’ cab which is stupidly light and rated at about 400w so don’t need to worry about turning up the acoustic image head.  Just use 2 of these cabs for very loud gigs.

 

Looked into the PJB stuff.  Really couldn’t see the point.  The smaller stuff was too quiet to use on even some drummerless gigs.  The more powerful stuff is pretty compact but massively heavy compared to the alternatives so ruled all their gear out on weight grounds as I’m well past the stage of carrying heavy gear about for no good reason!

[NickA]

I like the transparency and modularity of my pjb stuff ... but it's not loud and it is heavy "per decibel.  Tried a friend's TC bg208 this week and for the price and portability it's pretty good and louder than my little flight case.... the sound is a bit muffled compared to the flghtcase though, it's not "up there" with AER, PJB, AI and he is thinking of trading up to a Markbass.

 

Maybe we're being a bit precious..... saw Roy Babbngton with soft machine a few years back, playing through a cheap line six combo (sounded fine) and someone on here a while back ( gypsyjazzer?) Said they'd given up fussing about amps and bought a fender rumble...weighs nothing, sounds ok..audience don't care 😂.

 

Loads of options these days with tiny class d amps and super light cabs.....wouldn't know where to start!

[Paddy Morris]

Yes agreed. Too much choice.

[Paddy Morris]

On 19/08/2023 at 22:04, NickA said:

I thought the double 4 was intended as a practice amp?  Just not enough surface area to project double bass frequencies any distance ( ie why the double bass itself is so big!)

 

I've got a pjb the flight case  (4x 5") but even that is supposed to be used near a rear wall for bass reinforcement.  It's very good with double bass tho still a bit quiet for anywhere bigger than a small pub.

 

And as per another similar thread, all these tiny class d amps ( elf's gnomes etc ) paired with a modern light cab ( Barefaced, GR ) combine sound with portability too.  Worth checking out.

This is exactly what I did @NickA thanks for suggesting.  A gnome with a BF Super Mini.  Perfect.