Some PA advice please

[Downunderwonder]

Photograph the ins and outs of your mixer for someone to tell you how to patch in another amp all crossed over for your subs. There should be some external fx route or main mix insert that you can fire the whole orchestra through to a crossover. Easy and cheap.

[Dan Dare]

Following from Down Under's post, your mixer may even have a sub output (both my Soundcraft and Allen & Heath do), so you may only need a power amp (assuming you continue with your passive subs). Used power amps can be had cheaply if you don't mind old school/heavy.

[Phil Starr]

@stevie is the crossover expert but your amplifiers can push up to 10A through 8ohms and double that through 4 ohms. A coil that will handle that and work at sub crossover frequencies wouldn't fit in the box that crossover comes in. 

 

 

17 hours ago, martthebass said:

.  I have no idea on active crossovers, could anyone advise?

 

Read the manual  I just had a quick look and it gives some hints as to how to hook up to an active crossover. The master outputs on your Dynacord are specifically there to use with active speakers. You take the output from there to your active crossover. That will then give you two outputs to feed back to your tops and one or two outputs to go to an active sub. In all probability your active sub will have a crossover built in and a single sub will usually cope with a stereo input too. Then you can either go straight from the sub to a pair of active tops or feed the stereo outputs from the back of your subs back to the power amp inputs on your Dynacord mixer. Luckily Dynacord have anticipated your needs and made it relatively easy for you.

[martthebass]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

@stevie is the crossover expert but your amplifiers can push up to 10A through 8ohms and double that through 4 ohms. A coil that will handle that and work at sub crossover frequencies wouldn't fit in the box that crossover comes in. 

 

 

 

Read the manual  I just had a quick look and it gives some hints as to how to hook up to an active crossover. The master outputs on your Dynacord are specifically there to use with active speakers. You take the output from there to your active crossover. That will then give you two outputs to feed back to your tops and one or two outputs to go to an active sub. In all probability your active sub will have a crossover built in and a single sub will usually cope with a stereo input too. Then you can either go straight from the sub to a pair of active tops or feed the stereo outputs from the back of your subs back to the power amp inputs on your Dynacord mixer. Luckily Dynacord have anticipated your needs and made it relatively easy for you.

Thanks for this Phil.

We were hoping that there would be a relatively cheap fix to adding the subs, unfortunately that doesn't look like it's the case.  We were advised to go down the passive route by the vendor.....I wish I'd listened to myself and gone with my original gut of adding a high power active single sub with an active stereo Xover into the tops. 

Thanks for the comment on the passive Xovers....I also had my doubts they could handle the current but we were assured they could.  They have now been returned but we are left with 2 passive subs which are no use to us.

Edited September 20, 2023 by martthebass

[Downunderwonder]

27 minutes ago, martthebass said:

the vendor.....I

 

If I had been your vendor there is no way you would have even gone down this road let alone been blowing up stuff.

 

I have never seen a mixer that could not have a crossover applied to the mix before the amp send. Quid pro quo, your vendor is an idiot.

[Downunderwonder]

Found an image on Thomman of a Dynacord Powermate 600 2x 1000w mixer. It is plastered in outputs and inputs for your amp section. RTFM. And tell me that's not a rebranding of B'ringer.

 

You need a crossover and a power amp and a few cables. Go somewhere else to get them. Plenty of used available.

 

You don't even need a big amp as a piddly little one can do your tops while the mixer does the subs.

 

If your speaker cables for your subs are on the short side you would be better getting long signal cables and a sub amp can go along with the subs over by the wall.

[martthebass]

3 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Found an image on Thomman of a Dynacord Powermate 600 2x 1000w mixer. It is plastered in outputs and inputs for your amp section. RTFM. And tell me that's not a rebranding of B'ringer.

 

You need a crossover and a power amp and a few cables. Go somewhere else to get them. Plenty of used available.

 

You don't even need a big amp as a piddly little one can do your tops while the mixer does the subs.

 

If your speaker cables for your subs are on the short side you would be better getting long signal cables and a sub amp can go along with the subs over by the wall.

Can you give some examples of suitable products.  I've got a 600W power amp lying around that could be used for the tops.

[Downunderwonder]

1 minute ago, martthebass said:

Can you give some examples of suitable products.  I've got a 600W power amp lying around that could be used for the tops.

Any crossover will do the trick so long as you have the right cabling. You can go all fancy with a Driverack, or just a simple rack crossover unit.

[Jakester]

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

We were advised to go down the passive route by the vendor....

 

At the risk of straying into my day job a touch, s10 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides that goods must be reasonably fit for a particular purpose that the buyer makes known to the vendor before sale. So if you bought the crossovers from a shop on the advise of the salesman, I'd be going back, quoting that section, and asking for my money back. 

[martthebass]

5 minutes ago, Jakester said:

 

At the risk of straying into my day job a touch, s10 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides that goods must be reasonably fit for a particular purpose that the buyer makes known to the vendor before sale. So if you bought the crossovers from a shop on the advise of the salesman, I'd be going back, quoting that section, and asking for my money back. 

The Xovers have been returned but we still need to resolve the passive subs which we can't now employ.

[Downunderwonder]

2 minutes ago, martthebass said:

The Xovers have been returned but we still need to resolve the passive subs which we can't now employ.

Sure you can. Active crossover and your spare amp. Boom.

[Phil Starr]

It's a bind but you have at least two options. 

 

buy an active crossover and use your spare amp. Used there are several on FB marketplace going for £20-35 up to £100 for  a big brand model. When people go active the crossovers become redundant so there are plenty up for sale. 

 

Sell your passive subs and buy an active one.

 

Like most of us you are probably operating in mono, ie all your faders are set to centre and not faded left or right. At a pinch you could drive both tops off one channel of your mixers built in amp and the sub off the other channel, You'd still need an active crossover though.

[Downunderwonder]

16 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Sell your passive subs and buy an active one.

Not so great unless the active sub can do the filtering for the tops. Sending full range to the tops is what he was wanting to avoid in the first place.

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

buy an active crossover and use your spare amp. Used there are several on FB marketplace going for £20-35 up to £100 for  a big brand model. When people go active the crossovers become redundant so there are plenty up for sale. 

 

This looks to be the easiest/cheapest option. You already have the passive subs and a spare power amp, so you won't have to sell the passives and buy actives (which almost inevitably means incurring a loss). You only need a simple 2 way active crossover to spilt sub and top feeds. Plenty of companies offer them - DBX, Behringer, LD Systems (their X223 looks good value at around £100), etc. All you want is a few extra XLR cables to feed the crossover and spare power amp and a couple of additional speaker cables (if you don't already have them). Even buying new, less than £300 should see you sorted.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Dan Dare

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Not so great unless the active sub can do the filtering for the tops. Sending full range to the tops is what he was wanting to avoid in the first place.

 

Don't most active subs have crossovers for this very purpose?

[martthebass]

3 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Don't most active subs have crossovers for this very purpose?

The one I’m looking at does and I think that might be the easiest solution. I’d probably opt for a single active sub taking the mixer feed and use the internal crossover feeding the tops. Just trying to convince the band after the first failure….

[Phil Starr]

2 hours ago, martthebass said:

The one I’m looking at does and I think that might be the easiest solution. I’d probably opt for a single active sub taking the mixer feed and use the internal crossover feeding the tops. Just trying to convince the band after the first failure….

That's a good solution if you can afford it. If budgets are tight then upgrading is best when it is gradual accumulation with a plan. So long as you buy well this will continue to be your sub when you next decide to upgrade. Hope it goes well for you.