Cookies

[Silvia Bluejay]

I get this message when I log on:

 

Quote

We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.

 

Well, I don't want that to happen. I don't want this website to share any information about my use of this site with your partners. But I'm only offered a button called "Got it!", so I can't deny permission. I'm not sure this is legal in the UK?

[DGBass]

Having an option to opt out of uneccessary cookies and I guess GDPR regulations would be a reasoanble guide as to what constitutes an unecessary cookie would I think go someway to helping forum users not get the fear from the "Got It" pop up. At the moment it serves no real purpose in my mind other than to tell a user we are using cookies to profile you for advertising purposes and there is no choice other than to agree to make the pop up go away. I've also noticed on my browser that posts are now re-arranged by likes and not date by default? It's easy enough to re-order but i'm not sure if its a bug from the new implementation or deliberate to push the most likes to the top of a thread? Using different browsers has a marked effect on what you now see when browsing basschat whether logged in or lurking. Firefox on strict as @Silvia Bluejay mentioned is fairly useable and helps minimise ads so far. 

[Woodinblack]

55 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I don't believe that a cookie is the ONLY way to identify paying and non-paying subscribers after sign-in

 

It isnt - it is the way the advert suppliers do it though. The cookie is to say not to provide adverts as now the site is going through their gateway.

 

8 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I wonder if this is based on your IP address?

 

I doubt it - It is in french on one of my machines and english on the other.

 

7 minutes ago, DGBass said:

I've also noticed on my browser that posts are now re-arranged by likes and not date by default? It's easy enough to re-order but i'm not sure if its a bug from the new implementation or deliberate to push the most likes to the top of a thread?

 

That has always been the way on the site issues forum, but not on any others, as this is designed for a question / answer type layout. This hasn't changed at all. It is designed to push the most popular answer (ie, the one most people thought answered the question) to the top.

[binky_bass]

As a general rule, I reject all requests for cookie acceptance. 99% of website have an option to decline cookies or to manage them at least. I've not come across a site that simply crudely says 'got it'. There should be an option to reject. If there isn't, personally for me this is a bit of a deal breaker. As a near 20 year member of the various iterations of Basschat, I'd hate to have to abandon ship, but unless I have the option to manage cookies to my preference, then I'll be left with not much option but to leave the site and with it my membership. I expect others will probably do similar, so in an attempt to draw an income to the site you might inadvertently loose a good few paying members... I get you need to balance the books, but not at the cost of selling our data please. I'd be happier paying more towards membership.

[fleabag]

I found the  Got it !   this morning, but there are links to go to the Cookie Policy page, which is one of those generic annoying types, where instead of just putting up  a "  Reject All "   button, you have to untick all the boxes that you dont want, which of course, is all of them.  I've seen this type  many times on websites.  Tiresome , because they could just implement a standard cookie policy with a reject all button, but some, like the one here, means manually unticking about 8 or 9 boxes.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by fleabag

[Reggaebass]

6 minutes ago, fleabag said:

there are links to go to the Cookie Policy page,

I found this one but unless I’m missing something how do I not consent 

[Reggaebass]

Just now, Reggaebass said:

I found this one but unless I’m missing something how do I not consent 

 

[fleabag]

Those white ticks in blue boxes need unticking.  That's a generic Cookie Policy  page that i've seen many times on other websites.  More than annoying as it needs you to manually decline every blue tick.  They must figure you cant bothered or something.  I've sometimes opened a website which uses this generic cookie page, and simply moved on to another website selling the same stuff i was looking for.  But being this is Basschat, i  went ahead and declined every blue tick that was possible to decline

Edited August 31, 2023 by fleabag

[Reggaebass]

1 minute ago, fleabag said:

Those blue ticks in boxes need unticking.  That's a generic Cookie Policy  page that i've seen many times on other websites.  More than annoying as it needs you to manually decline every blue tick.  They must figure you cant bothered or something.  I've sometimes opened a website which uses this generic cookie page, and simply moved on to another website selling the same stuff i was looking for.  But being this is Basschat, i  went ahead and declined every blue tick that was possible to decline

Thanks fb 

[BigRedX]

BTW none of the new cookies from Ezoic appear to be listed on the Basschat cookies page. Does that not need updating? 

[Gardenerben]

Supporting Member here and for feedback, I won't support the site if I can't reject all cookies. I will just stop using it.

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, Kiwi said:

...

Just a reminder that this is a trial.  That means initial testing for four weeks from today. ...

 

OK for a trial period. I shall not log into BC for four weeks; if there is still any sign of this stuff after that period, I'll renounce BC until it goes away. I'm not a paranoid 'they're following me' freak, but this is totally over the limit. If the site needs more money, I'll gladly consider any other means of contributing (modestly...); this kind of 'partnership' is not acceptable to me. I'll be deleting all unwanted cookies when I exit here (I do this regularly anyway...). Thanks for all the hard work and tough decisions involved in keeping BC afloat; back in four week's time. Meanwhile...

 

Have a splendid day.

 

Douglas

 

PS : I'll log in just for the BC Compo Challenge Certificate this evening; next month's Challenge is, however, compromised. 'Sigh...'

[Rumple]

Not only is there no opt out option but even if I begrudgingly press 'Got it' it reappears the next time I visit BC, it was even in French one time!

[fleabag]

There is an option to opt out.  I've already posted it.  I opted out, saved this action, and then logged out of BC, cleared BC cookies in CC cleaner, then logged back in to BC and the cookie popup has disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by fleabag

[binky_bass]

@Kiwi - This new policy is clearly going to alienate a good number of very loyal members. The fact that the cookie notification pop-up is extremely unclear as to how to reject said cookies does bring into discussion the morality of the company you've partnered with. If the pop-up was a typical one where you can simply click 'reject' then I'd have no issues, as I assume few people would. The way this has been set up comes across as dishonest and makes people feel like they are having their privacy violated which is not the Basschat way. I appreciate you're in the unenviable position of balancing this website in all the ways it need balancing, but this isnt going to do the site any favours when some of the most long serving members are going to pack it in because there's no clear and honest way to reject cookies. 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

OK for a trial period. I shall not log into BC for four weeks; if there is still any sign of this stuff after that period, I'll renounce BC until it goes away.

 

Dont' forget it is the same on GC.

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I don't believe that a cookie is the ONLY way to identify paying and non-paying subscribers after sign-in.

 

It is if you don't want to sign in afresh every time you visit the site.

[Stub Mandrel]

Personally, I got fed up with worrying about this stuff years ago.

 

I just ticked OK and got on with life.

 

But all this discussion piqued my interest.

 

I see that despite being a recently renewed supporting member Adblock is blocking 17 items on this page. But turning adblock off doesn't make them visible. So what are these invisibles?

 

Incidentally, I have 'show acceptable ads' enabled in Adblock.

[Woodinblack]

I would add here, about cookies, I have never understood the problem with cookies for site specific cookies - I mean there isn't a shopping site or general internet site that would work without them, while agreeing wholeheartedly about internet wide cookies for advertising. I am not a fan of those but I know  the site has to get money somehow, I know there are people saying I am happy to contribute more, but there was a banner for months and it didn't happen really. But I don't know anything about the finances.

 

The only cookie that I know anything about in this change is a cookie from a plugin on this site, which tells the ezoic gateway whether you are a member or not, to ensure that they don't get adverts on the page. Yes, there could be a different way of doing that but I was too busy to rewrite pages, so it was an easier way that others could get on with stuff. if you look in your cookies, you will see it as the one starting ips4_ezoic.... You can remove it, and then you get adverts, which I assume people also want to block.

 

There do seem to be a load of ezoic cookies, whcih I haven't seen before and obviously something to do with their advert system. I am not sure why they have to exist if you are a supporting member, but I haven't really dealt with much of this stuff.

 

Then there are a load of forum ones that the site doesn't work without - the ones that say what view you are in, what your last page was, what your session is (so you can log in) and preferences for push notifications and the little orange flags up the top that say about new posts and loads more - obviously there are more of those than anything else. There are also a bunch of what are probably google and other search type ones.

None of that has changed, just the ezoic ones

 

So when people say they can't deal with cookies, I assume they mean the new ezoic ones?

 

Clearly if those things are very bad and you can't cope with them, then that has to come down to your choice

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I don't believe that a cookie is the ONLY way to identify paying and non-paying subscribers after sign-in.

 

It isn't - the best way was for me to write something which modified the HTML output of the main page to provide the clue to the adverising framework, but that was quite a bit of work, I have quite a lot on that pays money, and I was too lazy to write it.

But technically I am not sure what the technical difference between writing the HTML output and using a  cookie is? why is one bad and one ok? They have the same zero output ouside the site.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I see that despite being a recently renewed supporting member Adblock is blocking 17 items on this page. But turning adblock off doesn't make them visible. So what are these invisibles?

 

I am guessing the google analytics stuff and maybe security for the invision license

[jrixn1]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The only cookie that I know anything about in this change is a cookie from a plugin on this site, which tells the ezoic gateway whether you are a member or not, to ensure that they don't get adverts on the page.

 

@Woodinblack

@Kiwi

Is that functionality working? I am getting adverts when logged in as a supporting member:

 

 

 

 

My understanding is that I shouldn't be seeing adverts (it says paying a subscription would "remove all advertising" ) 

 

 

 

[Silvia Bluejay]

The more I delve into the Privacy Policy and list of advertisers on Ezoic the more horrified I am. I've turned off all I could turn off, but the Strict setting on Firefox and a similar setting on my newly-enabled Adblock for this site will stay.

 

Remember that GDPR does not exist in the US, where Ezoic is based and where our data is open to far more manipulation and selling than anywhere in Europe.

 

I'm not a happy bunny.

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Silvia Bluejay

[Baloney Balderdash]

Do I get part of your advertising money for this?

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

It is if you don't want to sign in afresh every time you visit the site.

 

My browser it is set to remove cookies at the end of each session.  I shut down my browser after I visit.  I do have to sign in but that's exactly how I want it.  The "Remember Me" button is unchecked when I do so.

 

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, fleabag said:

... means manually unticking about 8 or 9 boxes...

 

Yes, but there's also a 'Vendor List' button, which brings up the long, long list of their clients, very many of which have a 'Legitimate Interest' box ticked by default. This 'Legitimate Interest' is a sort of 'Get Out of Jail Free' card for taking info for whatever purpose they deem legitimate; I unchecked them all, which took quite a long time. Several hundred, not '8 or 9'; they're just the visible ones to make one think it's all been covered. It has not; there' a lot of sneaky, hidden stuff that one has to be really motivated to not consent to. It's at the grey borderline of scammy as a method of operating, and I'll have none of it, just because it's so cleverly designed to make it very, very difficult to opt out. It's these methods I object more to than the use of any commercial info I might be giving away. As it happens, my statistics are so 'far out' that they are more 'noise' for any analysis, but it's for the principle of openness and transparency that wrankles. This company has as much contempt from me as I can spare, and severely taints any others using it.
 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dad3353

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Dont' forget it is the same on GC.

 

I've not seen any sign of it on GC; if I do, I shall abstain from there too until it's gone.