Cookies

[Silvia Bluejay]

I get this message when I log on:

 

Quote

We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.

 

Well, I don't want that to happen. I don't want this website to share any information about my use of this site with your partners. But I'm only offered a button called "Got it!", so I can't deny permission. I'm not sure this is legal in the UK?

[Woodinblack]

I would add here, about cookies, I have never understood the problem with cookies for site specific cookies - I mean there isn't a shopping site or general internet site that would work without them, while agreeing wholeheartedly about internet wide cookies for advertising. I am not a fan of those but I know  the site has to get money somehow, I know there are people saying I am happy to contribute more, but there was a banner for months and it didn't happen really. But I don't know anything about the finances.

 

The only cookie that I know anything about in this change is a cookie from a plugin on this site, which tells the ezoic gateway whether you are a member or not, to ensure that they don't get adverts on the page. Yes, there could be a different way of doing that but I was too busy to rewrite pages, so it was an easier way that others could get on with stuff. if you look in your cookies, you will see it as the one starting ips4_ezoic.... You can remove it, and then you get adverts, which I assume people also want to block.

 

There do seem to be a load of ezoic cookies, whcih I haven't seen before and obviously something to do with their advert system. I am not sure why they have to exist if you are a supporting member, but I haven't really dealt with much of this stuff.

 

Then there are a load of forum ones that the site doesn't work without - the ones that say what view you are in, what your last page was, what your session is (so you can log in) and preferences for push notifications and the little orange flags up the top that say about new posts and loads more - obviously there are more of those than anything else. There are also a bunch of what are probably google and other search type ones.

None of that has changed, just the ezoic ones

 

So when people say they can't deal with cookies, I assume they mean the new ezoic ones?

 

Clearly if those things are very bad and you can't cope with them, then that has to come down to your choice

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, SpondonBassed said:

I don't believe that a cookie is the ONLY way to identify paying and non-paying subscribers after sign-in.

 

It isn't - the best way was for me to write something which modified the HTML output of the main page to provide the clue to the adverising framework, but that was quite a bit of work, I have quite a lot on that pays money, and I was too lazy to write it.

But technically I am not sure what the technical difference between writing the HTML output and using a  cookie is? why is one bad and one ok? They have the same zero output ouside the site.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I see that despite being a recently renewed supporting member Adblock is blocking 17 items on this page. But turning adblock off doesn't make them visible. So what are these invisibles?

 

I am guessing the google analytics stuff and maybe security for the invision license

[jrixn1]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

The only cookie that I know anything about in this change is a cookie from a plugin on this site, which tells the ezoic gateway whether you are a member or not, to ensure that they don't get adverts on the page.

 

@Woodinblack

@Kiwi

Is that functionality working? I am getting adverts when logged in as a supporting member:

 

 

 

 

My understanding is that I shouldn't be seeing adverts (it says paying a subscription would "remove all advertising" ) 

 

 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

Do I get part of your advertising money for this?

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

It is if you don't want to sign in afresh every time you visit the site.

 

My browser it is set to remove cookies at the end of each session.  I shut down my browser after I visit.  I do have to sign in but that's exactly how I want it.  The "Remember Me" button is unchecked when I do so.

 

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, fleabag said:

... means manually unticking about 8 or 9 boxes...

 

Yes, but there's also a 'Vendor List' button, which brings up the long, long list of their clients, very many of which have a 'Legitimate Interest' box ticked by default. This 'Legitimate Interest' is a sort of 'Get Out of Jail Free' card for taking info for whatever purpose they deem legitimate; I unchecked them all, which took quite a long time. Several hundred, not '8 or 9'; they're just the visible ones to make one think it's all been covered. It has not; there' a lot of sneaky, hidden stuff that one has to be really motivated to not consent to. It's at the grey borderline of scammy as a method of operating, and I'll have none of it, just because it's so cleverly designed to make it very, very difficult to opt out. It's these methods I object more to than the use of any commercial info I might be giving away. As it happens, my statistics are so 'far out' that they are more 'noise' for any analysis, but it's for the principle of openness and transparency that wrankles. This company has as much contempt from me as I can spare, and severely taints any others using it.
 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dad3353

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Dont' forget it is the same on GC.

 

I've not seen any sign of it on GC; if I do, I shall abstain from there too until it's gone. 

 

[binky_bass]

48 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Yes, but there's also a 'Vendor List' button, which brings up the long, long list of their clients, very many of which have a 'Legitimate Interest' box ticked by default. This 'Legitimate Interest' is a sort of 'Get Out of Jail Free' card for taking info for whatever purpose they deem legitimate; I unchecked them all, which took quite a long time. Several hundred, not '8 or 9'; they're just the visible ones to make one think it's all been covered. It has not; there' a lot of sneaky, hidden stuff that one has to be really motivated to not consent to. It's at the grey borderline of scammy as a method of operating, and I'll have none of it, just because it's so cleverly designed to make it very, very difficult to opt out. It's these methods I object more to than the use of any commercial info I might be giving away. As it happens, my statistics are so 'far out' that they are more 'noise' for any analysis, but it's for the principle of openness and transparency that wrankles. This company has as much contempt from me as I can spare, and severely taints any others using it.
 

@Dad3353 is dead on - this feels very dishonest and scam-ish. Companies that specifically design complex and unobvious processes to effect the outcome they want are not companies I'd expect Basschat to affiliate themselves with. 

 

@Kiwi - You have to agree that the massively overly complex way to actually truly 'opt out' of their cookie gathering process is not morally acceptable. Again, if the pop-up (like 80% of cookie pop-ups) simply gave the 'reject all' option, then no one would have any issue. This particular cookie pop-up isn't acceptable and I expect is legally grey as companies have a duty to not purposefully and obviously skirt data gathering permissions.

[TheGreek]

As a non supporting, but long standing member I really don't like the idea of BC "selling" my info without my consent. I am another member who will be leaving (despite being active in the current SE Bash) if the proposed partnership goes ahead. 

 

I still haven't read anything explaining why the "Reject all" option can't be implemented during this trial period.

[3below]

As per @TheGreek , "As a non supporting, but long standing member I really don't like the idea of BC "selling" my info without my consent."   I will be also considering leaving, although not a supporting member I have purchased a vast amount of kit from supporting members (too much!).  Privacy Badger currently shows 5 trackers, Ezoic as mentioned previously and Quantserve  - Guardian article interesting https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/apr/23/quantcast-tracking-trackers-cookies-web-monitoring.   AdblockPlus shows 60 items blocked on this thread page. 

 

 

I understand the tension between funding (running) BC and the views of the community that create the content of BC i.e. the people (us) who are BC.  It would be interesting to know how many supporting members are needed to make it viable without 'selling out' our data. Yes, I should put my money into being a supporter, I just need to get round to it but will now wait to see what develops. 

[Guest]

I'm out.

I find this unacceptable and I'm not jumping through hoops to prevent being tracked.

 

Lots of good people here. Wish you all the best.

[BigRedX]

Until the cookies and tracking policy is more transparent and all cookies over than ones essential for the login functions of Basschat to work can be easily to rejected without having the deselect each one separately, Basschat has been relegated to its own browser where all cookies and other browsing history are automatically flushed on quit. No links in posts will be followed and no other sites will be visited from this browser rendering all the tracking data useless.

[choob.squeemer]

Well - I saw the pop up last night when I entered the site - I did not click "got it"  

 

absolutely not - don't want it - don't want any tracking on me - very unhappy about this 

 

adverts all over the place - in the middle of the screen - between the written lines - totally unacceptable 

 

so then I'm no longer logged in - wtf - so does this mean that if I don't agree to their "got it" then there are consequences 

 

I am not a supporting member , but would be happy to become one if it meant getting rid of this nonsense 

 

if this is the way its going then I'm out - shame really like this site - the members are great - lots of interesting stuff to read 

 

have bought nice stuff here - but tracking me and filling the page up with ads NOOO

[Hellzero]

This what I've got today after the Ezoic era is, I really hope, over.

 

Check at the right, these are the ads and the trackers blocked since yesterday evening when I activated the ad blocker only for BassChat, where I logged in and out 13 or 14 times to check what was going on, and each time cleaning all the mess to start from scrap.

 

Just check what happened today after Ezoic has been paused: only 3 ads blocked and absolutely no tracker, which is totally standard.

 

Don't tell us there isn't a big issue with Ezoic.

 

Furthermore, not allowing people to have the ability to refuse cookies is a violation of the GDPR (where it applies) and as I already wrote, BassChat is de facto a worldwide website, so even if it's not mandatory in the U.K. anymore, it's elsewhere, like in the EEC.

 

According to all answers, it looks like no moderator, except @Silvia Bluejay really understood that this inability to refuse cookies (ads and trackers) was the real issue.

 

[Velarian]

I’ve been watching this topic with interest and, as a supporting member, the only annoyance for me was the pointless “Got it” pop up with its lacking functionality. 

 

However, before the trial was suspended, I logged out to see what the fuss was all about and was shocked to see the plethora of poorly placed adverts. Logging back in again restored the calm, clear look and feel that I appreciate about the site.

 

What it confirmed for me was just one benefit of being a supporting member which, at a cost of around 5p per day, to me is a small price to pay for such a fantastic resource.

 

Surely the answer to keep the site running as painlessly as possible is for more users to become supporting members?

[choob.squeemer]

I agree about the supporting members not getting adverts - however I still don't want all those bodies tracking me - what I want is to be able to refuse tracking - 

 

I did a quick click on there to see how many there were - but as soon as I saw all the ones beginning with A and scrolled down - B was a long way down - so it 

 

means they are probably in the hundreds rather than the tens - I don't want to need to turn off all those every time - its not good enough . 

 

I am happy to become a supporting member even if it is more expensive than 20 quid   if it means getting rid of all that nonsense.

[Hellzero]

1 hour ago, choob.squeemer said:

I did a quick click on there to see how many there were - but as soon as I saw all the ones beginning with A and scrolled down - B was a long way down - so it 

 

means they are probably in the hundreds rather than the tens - I don't want to need to turn off all those every time - its not good enough .

There were around 250 adverts and a bit more trackers: simply deliriously amazing!

 

Check my post above.

[Stub Mandrel]

Signed out, saw only Rotosound ads (one very annoying as it keeps cycling).

 

Signed in, got six new message notifications for messages up to a year or more old that I've already read...

[Phil Starr]

I feel so sorry about all this. I do love everything about BassChat. The sense of community, the general good manners and positive contributions everyone has made over the years. I'm trying very hard not to have a knee jerk reaction to this but I am not happy to be part of this world where everything I do is tracked and ultimately to have no control over where data about me ends up. I have read through each and every post on this thread and it seems quite clear to me that Ezoic is not a morally responsible partner. The idea that because we have left the EU this is legal and somehow therefore acceptable is not one I subscribe to. To date Bass Chat has held higher standards than the general population not lower ones. I'm not prepared either to spend my days trying to outwit tech companies by installing extra software or ticking and unticking boxes or clearing cookies, the whole reason I am here rather than on social media is because this is a community, a safe space, somewhere I can trust.

 

I don't know how deep the financial need is, it would help if this were shared with us. My greatest hope is that it is accepted that this is not the way to go, that Ezoic is not a suitable partner and that it's practices have no place in this sort of forum. I hope that the community spirit of BassChat will be able to continue. That this partnership with Ezoic will be ended and other solutions to a problem that has not fully been explained can be found.

 

I hope that those who run BassChat will think again and recognise that this is just a mistake. It would be a shame to see Bass Chat end this way.

[Steve Browning]

10 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I don't know how deep the financial need is, it would help if this were shared with us. My greatest hope is that it is accepted that this is not the way to go, that Ezoic is not a suitable partner and that it's practices have no place in this sort of forum. I hope that the community spirit of BassChat will be able to continue. That this partnership with Ezoic will be ended and other solutions to a problem that has not fully been explained can be found.

 

It would be interesting to know what any shortfall is. Maybe the model can be tweaked, such that supporting members can place adverts but there is a more modest charge for general membership, with maybe a little more restriction on what lurkers can view?

[Skinnyman]

I’ve long been of the opinion that trying to prevent cookies is basically pointless. Pressing a button that says “reject all” does not guarantee that all advertising and tracking cookies are being rejected - we are basically taking it on trust that the sites and their affiliates are actually disabling all of the advertising and tracking features as we’ve requested. 
 

Saying that, I trust BassChat a darn sight more than most (any) other sites and I’m prepared to accept that the guys are trying to find a way of generating some income from the lurkers and non-supporting members while giving paying subscribers an ad-free and track-free experience. 
 

With all due respect though, I do wonder if this might have been implemented in a slightly more inclusive fashion? This is a community so maybe it would have helped to give us a bit of a heads up about what was going to be implemented. I’m not suggesting that we should be given any kind of say in the matter but I generally think that if you tell people what problem you’re trying to solve, they’ll work with you to solve it rather than react badly when change just happens for no obvious reason.

 

Anyway, I’m happy to let the guys work through this and iron out the wrinkles.

 

On a separate note, I cannot understand how companies can believe that online adverts beyond a simple banner can ever be effective and help sell a product or service. How on Earth, for example, Grammarly expect me to subscribe to their appalling word-mangler just because they interrupt anything I want to view on YouTube every thirty seconds to show me 5 seconds of the same fecking advert is beyond me. 
 

Still, if someone seriously wants to pay money just to know that I’ve entered this month’s photo competition and am a bit interested in the Ampeg DI box then good luck to them. 
 

As someone pointed out many years ago, if you’re using a service and you’re not paying to do so then you are the product…

[choob.squeemer]

Checked Hellzeros post - yes utterly deliriously amazing how many there are - don't know if anyone from ezoics has actually signed in to discuss anything 

 

but I doubt it - probably all run by robots - which would go a long way to explaining why the 1st ad I saw taking up the whole centre of the page was for knickers and handbags 

 

robots do not have ethics or morality - they are designed to sell anything to anyone - I don't think it is at all compatible with this community 

[rwillett]

6 minutes ago, choob.squeemer said:

which would go a long way to explaining why the 1st ad I saw taking up the whole centre of the page was for knickers and handbags 

 

 

Phew, I'm glad you got those ads as well, I thought my secret was out <phew>

[choob.squeemer]

lol

[TheGreek]

First visit to the forum since this matter arose.

 

Can somebody update me as to BC's position in light of the many complaints please.