Mic bleed. How do you deal with it?

[Downunderwonder]

There is a cheaper one that only does  dynamic mics. Curiously also PB-05

[EBS_freak]

It's because the one for dynamic mics does not require a phantom pass thru, whereas the one for condensers do - hence more electronic components, more cost. (Optogates require power via phantom power, regardless of model)

[EBS_freak]

In fact, probably easier just to post this - https://www.optogate.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

 

You've also probably clocked that there are various companies who manufacture a clone (maybe under license, dunno), including Monacor for example.

[JPJ]

I solved (reduced) this issue in my two bands by first, gating the mics, and then second educating the backing singers that they need to eat their mics to be heard. High pass certainly helps too, and we’ve never played anywhere large enough where I have needed to mic the cymbals, so some judicious eq cuts in the high end of the vocal mics also helps to dial down the cymbal sizzle.

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

 

 

Anyway, £111 at DV247.

 

On 04/09/2023 at 16:43, EBS_freak said:

In order of cost -

 

 

1st improvement- correct mic technique. Eat the mic, work the mic, keep the gains low so your vocalist input is way, way, way louder than the surroundings.

2nd improvement - get the band to turn down.

3rd improvement - use mics with greater off axis rejection... however, if you vocalists aren't too hot on mic technique and singing direct onto the mic, you may have mixed responses.

4th improvement - optogate on open mics (but not the lead vocalists). They will only open when the singer is close proximity to the mic and are a lot more reliable than audio threshold gates.

5th improvement - use screens of shame. Drummer and cab shields can help prevent bleed to your open mics.

6th improvement - go silent stage and inears (appreciate there's a cost outlay here... but avoid 5th and go here... although you may still want the 5th for the drummer. The cymbals bleed everywhere.

 

7th improvement tell your singers if they dont improve their mic technique they have to pay £111 for the optogates

[Chienmortbb]

On 05/09/2023 at 10:46, Phil Starr said:

The problem when a band member mixes is that they will only see you as a band member and an equal and resist accepting any technical expertise you might have.

So true.

[Buddster]

On 04/09/2023 at 16:25, dave_bass5 said:

 

At the moment I feel leaving the mics live on songs they aren’t singing on will at least keep the mix consistent. Is this a good way to approach it? 

Again, I’m look for the best practice within the restrictions of what I have to work with. 

With no money outlay, for me, this is your best option. 

Is the bleed effecting the front of house sound, or have you just noticed how bad it is when soloing the tracks? 

When I've run the FoH sound for bands, I'm amazed at the bleed when listening pfl solo, (esp snare down vocal mic) but the mix sounds fine as it's blended and balanced as a whole by listening to the mix. 

It's not perfect by any means, but you'll never completely eliminate it, one learns to deal with it I guess. 

As for drummer vocal mics, completely agree they're a PitA (both the drummer and the mic). Especially if they won't help you out 

[Chienmortbb]

On 04/09/2023 at 19:34, EBS_freak said:

Headset mic for the drummer?

Are there any decent headset mics?

[EBS_freak]

21 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Are there any decent headset mics?

Yes - although be prepared to open your wallet!

[Happy Jack]

12 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yes - although be prepared to open your wallet!

 

My hands are hovering over the keyboard, poised to strike! 🙂

[Downunderwonder]

13 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

In fact, probably easier just to post this - https://www.optogate.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

 

You've also probably clocked that there are various companies who manufacture a clone (maybe under license, dunno), including Monacor for example.

Actually, I was looking at the NZ offerings.

 

I guess there's a link in there somewhere to shop in English and £?

[Downunderwonder]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

My hands are hovering over the keyboard, poised to strike! 🙂

Specs say 15cm depending on surface reflectivity is the minimum operational distance. One wonders if a face at 15cm triggers it on or not.

 

Length of mic plus maximum control distance required = operational distance required.

[mike257]

Russ has (as usual) got it nailed on.

 

My personal view on this, after trying multiple things, is that unless you've got budget for the right sort of mics and vocalists prepared to use them properly, and drum shields/quiet stage/IEM aren't an option, the best thing you can do is to live with the bleed and mix around it.  I've tried various approaches when I've had issues with this, but ultimately, no matter how you're dipping the volume of the channel, when it opens up to let the vocal through, all the bleed comes back along with it. On a stage with multiple live vocal mics, this can be quite a noticeable and unnatural sonic change - one which I'm sure @dave_bass5 will be able to duplicate by listening to an instrumental section of his recordings with the vocal mics alternately on and off.

I'll start my soundchecks with vocal mics all open in the PA, so that when I'm hearing it in the room, I'm hearing it in the context of how it'll come at me during the show - instead of dialling in loads of lovely sounds in isolation, then opening up all the vocals at the end of the soundcheck and essentially having the same effect as switching on four or five more overhead mics full of cymbals!

 

The only piece of hardware/software I've found that really fights this off is the reassuringly expensive Rupert Neve 5045 Primary Source Enhancer, which (when dialled in right) really does do absolute magic in clearing up spill on a vocal line, but I've only had the luxury of carrying on one or two tours, and they cost a bloody fortune to buy.  The software emulation equivalent built in to the higher end Yamaha mixers also makes a damn good go of it, although it does have the unfortunate side effect of making you mix your show on a Yamaha mixer.  There's various plug-in versions out there available too but I can't say I've given them enough of a go to comment on their effectiveness. 

[TimR]

On 04/09/2023 at 16:25, dave_bass5 said:

their mics get a lot of bleed

 

What exactly is causing the bleed?