Shergold Electric Upright

[godathunder]

A couple of decades ago my family bought this bass for my father with the promise that the tailpiece would follow. Inevitably, it never did and the bass has sat in a dark corner gathering dust ever since. Emboldened by my recent experience of butchering (the easier bits of) donna lee on a fretless and possessing a couple of old miles davis albums, I quite like the idea of bringing it back to life and expanding my palette with a bit of upright action.

 

I'm told that the bridge is still around but now lives in a box somewhere in the recesses of the attic. This hopefully just leaves a tailpiece, a set of strings and a setup missing. I'm a complete novice in the dark arts of the doghouse so is there anything I'm not considering and just how many shekels am I likely to have to splurge on it's revenance?

 

I'd be grateful for any advice given and also grateful if anyone has any further info on these basses, the article below was the only thing I could find:

 

https://shergold.com/uprightbass.html

[TheRev]

 

The tailpiece in the Shergold article looks quite small compared to the bridge so I'm guessing it might be a cello tailpiece?  New tailpieces are pretty cheap and if you have the bridge, then all you need is a shout out for a set of used strings and you could be up and playing for £100.  I'd leave getting a setup until you're sure you can tune it up without it folding in half.

[alyctes]

If you need a DB tailpiece I probably have one kicking about.  I'm away at the moment so it might be a couple of weeks before I can find it.

[JoeEvans]

I removed the tailpiece on my db and replaced it with four loops of spectra cord - I posted about it on here, will try and get a link. Might save a bit of mucking about if the bass needs a non standard size of tailpiece.

[JoeEvans]

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/474391-experimental-tailpiece/

 

If you do go down that route, you need to use a water knot to tie the loops of cord, as other knots will slip under the tension.

Edited September 7, 2023 by JoeEvans

[godathunder]

On 05/09/2023 at 22:31, TheRev said:

 

The tailpiece in the Shergold article looks quite small compared to the bridge so I'm guessing it might be a cello tailpiece?  New tailpieces are pretty cheap and if you have the bridge, then all you need is a shout out for a set of used strings and you could be up and playing for £100.  I'd leave getting a setup until you're sure you can tune it up without it folding in half.

Ive just popped a measuring tape on the photo in the article and at 41" scale length it looks as if the tailpiece is around 9.5/10" so I think youre spot on about it being a cello tailpiece - looks as if I can pick up something decent enough for sub £50

 

13 hours ago, alyctes said:

If you need a DB tailpiece I probably have one kicking about.  I'm away at the moment so it might be a couple of weeks before I can find it.

Thank you very much for the offer, it looks as if Im looking for a cello rather than db tailpiece now though

 

1 hour ago, JoeEvans said:

I removed the tailpiece on my db and replaced it with four loops of spectra cord - I posted about it on here, will try and get a link. Might save a bit of mucking about if the bass needs a non standard size of tailpiece.

I read your posts on this a few weeks ago when I first gave thought to restoring it. Great idea but Im far too lazy given the low cost of a cello tailpiece......

 

 

So, hopefully that just leaves strings - I take it that db strings come in a variety of tensions and given the unknown integrity of the instrument a low tension set would be more sensible (for my fingers too - I prefer heavier strings and a medium/highish action on my electrics but I get the feeling this will be a bit more of a workout for them)

 

The bass is in my parents house in wales but I live in ireland so its going to be a couple of months before Im back there to make any progress with this

 

Thanks for your help chaps

Edited September 7, 2023 by godathunder
sppelingg

[Marc S]

Sorry to be late to the party, but wow - that looks unusual. I didn't know Shergold made an upright.

You might want to consider getting an adjustable bridge - as this will allow you to "tweak" the string height yourself. I recall a few years back, when as a beginner myself, the second upright I bought had an adjustable bridge, and for me at the time it was a real boon. It meant I could get the string height I was more comfortable with really easily. Good luck with this project. Nice to have a bass with a family link  

[Grahambythesea]

Would that the Shergold was still available at £430, they wouldn’t be able to make enough!

[Marc S]

Just zoomed in on one of the photos a bit closer. It appears from the wire in the middle of the body that it's hollow - just wondering if that's correct? @godathunder?
I'd be interested to know what the bass sounds like, as a chambered body would have an effect on the sound. Following this with interest, as I'd like to see this restored  

EDIT: If it is indeed hollow, it seems a shame not to incorporate some F-holes in the body

Edited September 20, 2023 by Marc S

[godathunder]

This is from the article:

 

Constructed with a birch ply back and belly, that bass features a centre core made of obeche wood and has two hollow chambers to help obtain the acoustic tonal qualities of the double bass.

 

There is a hole where the pickup sits but it seems a little small to work as an actual soundhole.

 

Unfortunately my time was mostly spoken for while I was at my folks so I didnt have much time to do more than take a cursory glance and take some photos.

 

@Marc S I see that you're in south wales, I'll be back over at some point in the next couple of months. The bass is in the rhondda so if thats anywhere near you and a mutually inconvenient time is available Id be happy to pop the kettle on for you.

[Marc S]

1 hour ago, godathunder said:

This is from the article:

 

Constructed with a birch ply back and belly, that bass features a centre core made of obeche wood and has two hollow chambers to help obtain the acoustic tonal qualities of the double bass.

 

There is a hole where the pickup sits but it seems a little small to work as an actual soundhole.

 

Unfortunately my time was mostly spoken for while I was at my folks so I didnt have much time to do more than take a cursory glance and take some photos.

 

@Marc S I see that you're in south wales, I'll be back over at some point in the next couple of months. The bass is in the rhondda so if thats anywhere near you and a mutually inconvenient time is available Id be happy to pop the kettle on for you.

Hi @godathunder,
I'm down the road a bit from the Rhondda - not too far away. Thanks for the offer - it would be interesting to see the bass  

[angletone]

The article on the Shergold website first appeared as a review in the Melody Maker in May 1983. I kept a copy the article as I was interested in buying one but I never heard of the bass again.  Then 20 years I later found one for sale. It turned out to be the actual bass in the photographs you see on Shergold's web page, though the pickup had been changed.

It was a pretty nice bass which I used for a while before upgrading to an Eminence EUB. It's constructed like an acoustic bass in the sense that it has a standard shaped bridge and smaller tailpiece. It's possible it was a cello tailpiece though I'm not sure. I can't remember the make of pickup I used with it but it can be seen in the photos. The design allows for most standard double bass pickups to be used. 

Mine didn't have a hole near the bridge. As it was the bass used in the original review, I've always suspected it was a prototype so maybe production models were different.  I uploaded a few photos which may help as a reference in restoring the bass. 

[godathunder]

thanks @angletone

thanks for the photos, thats great to see - there are at least two in the world then.

unfortunately Im not likely to make any progress with it for a little while, pesky life getting in the way as ever

 

[godathunder]

The bass has been rehomed and is now with me in Ireland awaiting my attentions after 25 years sat in a dusty corner.

 

It's in need of a tailpiece, bridge and strings.

 

A quick glance at amazon/ebay suggests that an aluminium alloy cello tailpiece looks to start around 20 euros, adjustable bridge 45 euros and a set of light steel strings 40 euro. While Im not expecting sonic wonders at this price point should I consider spending a little more?

 

The tone Im looking for is jazz/rockabilly influenced and Im unlikely to pick up a bow at the moment

 

All advice welcomed

[Burns-bass]

I don’t know if such things exist, but is there a Cello forum you could go on and ask for any used items?

 

Or maybe a local music shop you could ask?

 

This stiff (used bridges and tailpieces) would end up in the bin. It might save you a few quid if they could send them to you. 
 

The instrument doesn’t look like it’s in great shape so I’d spend the least amount of money possible.

[godathunder]

Getting there.

 

I picked up a cheap cello tailpiece and steel strings. The bridge Ive picked up is laughably outsized but I should be able to cut it down to suit. In the meantime Ive knocked up a temporary one from some offcuts from the scrap pile. This is currently 8-10mm or so too tall but I wont feel bad about hacking at it until I settle on a height that suits.

 

As it hasnt been under tension for at least 25 years Ive tuned it a tone flat to let it settle in. Ill give it a few weeks to acclimatise before I bring it up to pitch then after another few weeks Ill start experimenting with the bridge.

 

Initial results are quite promising - it's surprisingly loud and full given its diminutive nature - the E string sounds rather underwhelming compared to the other three though and feels a little under tensioned. Perhaps due to the low tuning, probably because theyre cheap strings - more than likely, a combination of the two and no doubt compounded by my lack of technique. Pickup hasnt been fitted yet, Ill take a look at it when Ive fitted the permanent bridge.

[godathunder]

On 07/11/2023 at 18:36, angletone said:

The article on the Shergold website first appeared as a review in the Melody Maker in May 1983. I kept a copy the article as I was interested in buying one but I never heard of the bass again.  Then 20 years I later found one for sale. It turned out to be the actual bass in the photographs you see on Shergold's web page, though the pickup had been changed.

It was a pretty nice bass which I used for a while before upgrading to an Eminence EUB. It's constructed like an acoustic bass in the sense that it has a standard shaped bridge and smaller tailpiece. It's possible it was a cello tailpiece though I'm not sure. I can't remember the make of pickup I used with it but it can be seen in the photos. The design allows for most standard double bass pickups to be used. 

Mine didn't have a hole near the bridge. As it was the bass used in the original review, I've always suspected it was a prototype so maybe production models were different.  I uploaded a few photos which may help as a reference in restoring the bass. 

Thanks so much for the photos, they made me much more confident about this

 

btw, was yours set up as a 1/2 scale rather than 3/4?

[PaulKing]

I'm glued to this.

Jealous, that's a nice little project....

[godathunder]

Ive got nothing particularly exciting to update on this. Ive recut my temporary bridge a couple of times. The action at the end of the fingerboard is currently 6,9,9,7mm (G-E). The next iteration will be aiming for 5,7,8,9 and unless that feels substantially different to my expectations I expect that will be the height I cut the final bridge at.

 

Ive really enjoyed playing it for the last few weeks, it's been very inspiring to have to approach my playing from a different angle (well, my hands are at a 90 degree angle from their usual position at any rate). Unsurprisingly, since Im untutored, Im struggling with some aspects of playing it.

 

My intonation is pretty suspect and Ive a tendancy to play sharp - I wonder if lowering the endpin by a couple of centimetres will help put the notes where I feel they should be. I find that I lose my orientation a little too and (despite some helpful little bits of tape Ive stuck to the side of the neck), I sometimes have to stop and remind myself exactly where I am. Coming from a background of playing with guitar based bands, this is more of a problem in the non guitar friendly keys although I dont seem to have quite such a problem with this when playing bass guitar

 

As for the dusty end of the instrument.......... Past around the 9th "fret" where I need to change hand position (is it called thumb position up there?) is an absolute shitshow, in terms of tone, intonation (it's more like random tone generation at the mo - past the octave I considering it quite succesful if Im within a semitone of my target note) and hand strength (Im currently recovering from injuries to my left wrist and shoulder so this will have to be taken slowly)

 

Anyway, it's overall positive and Im thorougly enjoying myself. I've spotted a db tutor around an hours drive away so, when time allows, will try to engage for a few pointers. Probably best to do it asap before I settle into bad habits. If any forum members are based in south east ireland I'd love to meet up for a cuppa and show off my new toy

 

edit: is playing harmonics on an upright a common thing? I often use them when playing bass guitar but am struggling to play even the stronger harmonics cleanly on this

 

 

Edited March 3 by godathunder
Im verbose and had yet more to say

[PaulKing]

"... it's been very inspiring to have to approach my playing from a different angle (well, my hands are at a 90 degree angle from their usual position at any rate)"

Well... your right hand probably shouldn't be at 90deg to your normal position. It's a classic bass-guitarist thing to start with your hand perpendicular to the strings like it is on a bg. But conventional technique has your right hand much more relaxed, more like 45-60deg diagonally across the strings. Its more comfy, and it means you're pulling the strings with a much longer section of finger than just the tip.

 

"As for the dusty end of the instrument.......... Past around the 9th "fret" where I need to change hand position (is it called thumb position up there?)..." 

(not quite, that's up above 12th, when you use your thumb as a kinda octave capo/nut)   

"... is an absolute shitshow, in terms of tone, intonation (it's more like random tone generation at the mo - past the octave I considering it quite succesful if Im within a semitone of my target note) and hand strength ..."

I've been playing for 30 years and still barely getting by up there! IMHO there's no shame leaving that to the serious Jazzers and Orchestral guys. I wish I could but ... meh. 

 

"edit: is playing harmonics on an upright a common thing? I often use them when playing bass guitar but am struggling to play even the stronger harmonics cleanly on this."

For sure. Octave is easy enough and cuts through when playing. That's enough for me. 5th and 7th are harder to get to register unless you're Stanley Clarke or Adam Ben Ezra ... but they can certainly make them sing. Helps if you've got an amazing bass and bright strings.  

[Beer of the Bass]

I would usually have the nut at around my eyebrow height in playing position, the range of movement for both hands works best for me there. Some go lower, especially in roots music styles where you might stay in the lower positions more.

Harmonics are harder to sound than on bass guitar - bright steel strings help, as does playing with your right hand down at the very end of the fingerboard.

Re finding the notes higher up, putting a pencil mark or a sticky dot at the octave can be helpful as a temporary measure. Keeping markers on permanently is a contentious topic, but as a short term thing to help learn your way around it probably does no harm. And on most double basses the heel position helps with orientation around the 7th/8th "fret" region, but EUBs don't all recreate that.

The string heights you're aiming for are probably in a reasonable ballpark. 5mm-8mm is not uncommon for modern jazz styles with steel strings. It's at the low end of the range you might see on double basses in the wild in the UK, but I'd probably do the same on an EUB where unamped projection is not a concern. (I have my double bass down there currently, but with an adjustable bridge I retain the option of going up a little for specific gigs)