Calling Trace Elliot experts

[michele]

I guess I'm in the right place as I have the need to ask opinions about Trace Elliot heads..

Since I've relocated I'm currently with no band, gigs..nothing in sight and I'm just enjoying playing home for my own pleasure. So no need to move gear around, no gigs etc.

I sold all my stuff except a nice Accugroove Tri 112L cab that I want to pair with a Trace Elliot head. I have never owned a Trace but I remember plugging' in a valve combo of theirs in the mid 90' as one of the most delicious sound I've ever heard.

So I need something to use at home or at the occasional rehearsal/small venue gig.

I've come across two that are local to me:

1) a GP7 150 SM head claimed to be NOS never used --- about 300 euros but I can talk some down

2) a used AH250 mosfet 11band EQ ----- 200 euros

Please educate me.. pros/cons, what to look at, anything...

Thanks

[Downunderwonder]

I'd have the 250w one myself just because I know no gig where those 250w wouldn't be enough. Neither is going to get you the sounds of the valve one.

 

Prices seem high compared with UK where old Trace stuff is hard to give away. Must be something they are putting in the water that makes young folk unable to lift 14kg of amp these days.

[Kiwi]

9 hours ago, michele said:

I have never owned a Trace but I remember plugging' in a valve combo of theirs in the mid 90' as one of the most delicious sound I've ever heard.

Talk to @Chimike He's selling a load of Trace kit including valve combos at pretty reasonable prices. 

I would say that the valve stuff sounds much more lo-fi than the solid state stuff.  So if the valve range are your thing, definitely stick to those.  I have owned both.  The Mk V amps are generally like PA amps.  The Series 6 are fairly coloured in their character so may not suit all basses.  The SMX range are pretty good and that dual band compressor is a great way to vintage up a solid state head but it won't give you the low end.  I have no experience of the hybrid V range but I've owned a V8 head and played a V4 combo, both all valve.  They're very full sounding and remind me a bit of an SVT.  The Twin, Quatra and Hexavalve heads are much more a half way thing between the V heads and solid state range - sort of a modern sound from valves.  I still own a Hexavalve head.

[michele]

Thanks for the replies.

I know I can’t expect the SS stuff to sound like the valve one, but Valves are out of question both for money and weight reasons…

Anything I should check or to beware as regarding the AH250?

[Hellzero]

10 minutes ago, michele said:

Anything I should check or to beware as regarding the AH250?

Your back.

[michele]

Come on… that should be around 13 kgs. …

[thodrik]

At this point when looking at older Trace Elliot amps you are looking at amps that are often over thirty years old so in many cases that the question 'how does model X compare to model Y?' often matters less than 'what kind of condition is the actual amp in question in?'. 

If the condition of the amps is comparable, I would probably pick the AH250 owing to the 11 band graphic compared to the 7 band, also the additional watts. I had a 7 band SM 300 combo for over a decade and while it was good, the 7 band preamp was a bit limiting and I greatly preferred the 12 band SMX head I later got. So essentially if both amps were in similar condition I would get the AH 250. If you have patience then you could wait for another model like an SMX amp but for the core Trace Elliot tone, any of the solid state amps should manage to get that pre-shape voiced classic TE tone. 

 

The V-type amps are pretty much completely different to the solid state heads so not really comparable. From the ages of 13 to 27 I acquired an GP 7 SM300 combo, a GP12 SMX 300 head, two Peavey era Trace Elliot cabs and a V6. The V6 is the only bit of Trace gear I have left at the age of 37.

[michele]

3 minutes ago, thodrik said:

At this point when looking at older Trace Elliot amps you are looking at amps that are often over thirty years old so in many cases that the question 'how does model X compare to model Y?' often matters less than 'what kind of condition is the actual amp in question in?'. 

If the condition of the amps is comparable, I would probably pick the AH250 owing to the 11 band graphic compared to the 7 band, also the additional watts. I had a 7 band SM 300 combo for over a decade and while it was good, the 7 band preamp was a bit limiting and I greatly preferred the 12 band SMX head I later got. So essentially if both amps were in similar condition I would get the AH 250. If you have patience then you could wait for another model like an SMX amp but for the core Trace Elliot tone, any of the solid state amps should manage to get that pre-shape voiced classic TE tone. 

 

The V-type amps are pretty much completely different to the solid state heads so not really comparable. From the ages of 13 to 27 I acquired an GP 7 SM300 combo, a GP12 SMX 300 head, two Peavey era Trace Elliot cabs and a V6. The V6 is the only bit of Trace gear I have left at the age of 37.

Thanks for your input.

couple of smx available too… a little more pricey… 

Are smx more desiderable because if the dual compressor?

[thodrik]

3 hours ago, michele said:

Thanks for your input.

couple of smx available too… a little more pricey… 

Are smx more desiderable because if the dual compressor?

To be honest, I never used the dual compressor that much. By the time I got an SMX amp (2008), there were better pedal compressors available and the SMX compression wasn't quite to the level of the compression on my 'main' amp which was an EBS Fafner. 

I think that the SMX amps are generally a bit more expensive because they were slightly newer (late 80s-mid 90s) and are generally in better condition than earlier models and also had a tube in the preamp and dual band compression and tonnes of options like EQ blends at the rear of the amp. They also generally had more power on tap. 

 

The SM series was essentially a more stripped down approach which discarded the tube in the preamp (which didn't really drastically change the tone anyway) and dual compression and instead introduced the 'Sound Management' system which (trying to remember off the top of my head) was an EQ balance control which I never really used. 

Generally, any of the TE solid state amps should give you that core Trace Elliot tone so I wouldn't necessarily think of the SMX as 'superior' to an earlier model. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by thodrik

[michele]

Thanks… so if condition should be my number one priority maybe the GP7 150 SM head, being NOS, could be the wisest move…

[Hellzero]

There's also this one @michele, but I don't where you are in Italy.

 

https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm/a_trace-elliot-gp12_id7319863.html?stkn=bD3728N2y8n7bS58#

 

It's not a preamp as it has send/return jacks.

 

Worth asking a photo of the back to know which model it really is...

[sandy_r]

15 hours ago, michele said:

...

I sold all my stuff except a nice Accugroove Tri 112L cab that I want to pair with a Trace Elliot head. I have never owned a Trace but I remember plugging' in a valve combo of theirs in the mid 90' as one of the most delicious sound I've ever heard.

So I need something to use at home or at the occasional rehearsal/small venue gig.

...

Thanks

Have you considered getting a preamp (suitable to give TE sound), which you can then use at home/small gigs with phones/small combo (bypassing EQ using FX return), and then get a 'clean' higher-powered amp (which could be low-cost Class D, also low-weight) to drive your 112 cab?

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by sandy_r

[Hellzero]

Here is the manual for the complete range of the GP12(X) Series 6 iterations and also some of the GP7.

 

There was a preamp available at the time named GP12X.

 

Trace Elliot GP12 Series 6 Manual.pdf

[sandy_r]

20 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Here is the manual for the complete range of the GP12(X) Series 6 iterations and also some of the GP7.

 

There was a preamp available at the time named GP12X.

 

Trace Elliot GP12 Series 6 Manual.pdf 2.43 MB · 1 download

 

Good call @Hellzero

 

there is at least 1 Trace Elliot GP7 rack preamp on eB*y:

 

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Trace-Elliot-GP7-SM/394630523493?hash=item5be1cfea65:g:umcAAOSw-XFkZS53&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwDRyVlR40kkQHR2A34RMnDORIs8Lf+RI+yqRUkFyxFzlM+5qnfJDya8Yz0CE51spcg9KDh1P8KuWYwRCohlFqMaZv+86vpw79/jyjHgsDHyEUMleNhwiz5wd3vXOD8lsZHg14ZP/mwOxx1yJPBswUrb9By0mr9rf375iJB2zFCWRV3LF/iiZv38yuVwyhvtpkfEoaPkv5Ahfzxcpm/So7QjfWsRhVbuj+YfRGW4liDWMPvL3HL4q22++vkSyQG89fQ==|tkp:Bk9SR5b4t87QYg&pageci=b7c87fe7-5116-4c42-a80e-a680d7667b00&redirect=mobile

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by sandy_r

[Downunderwonder]

The EQ Balance control is a thing of beauty when you are doing covers that include reggae. One little twist gives you a fat dubby tone that still sounds like a bass, and goes straight back to where you had it for the next tune.

[VTypeV4]

I've had lots of Trace gear over the years and out of the two you mention (assuming the AH250 is in comparable condition), I'd take the 11-band AH250. There's nothing wrong with the 7-band SM but remember that AH250 was part of the premium range back in the '80s whereas the '90s SM was still only the middle sibling to the flagship 12-band SMX series.

 

I had a Twin Valve combo for a while which was a fantastic sounding thing despite it's modest 115w rating and simple 7-band pre-amp. It weighed an absolute ton and was a pig to move plus the power stage was more than capable of finding the limits of the speaker but I'd happily own another - a lovely amplifier. I expect this was the amp you tried all those years ago as it was the only all valve combo they would have made back then - mine was built in 1990.

 

As suggested above, the V-Types are somewhat different than the GP7, 11 and 12 ranges offering a valve pre-amp and basic Fender style EQ. Personally, I don't think they sound much like Fender and have a character of their own - these are a favourite of mine.

 

Hope you find these links useful..

[michele]

Guys, Thank you all for the very informative replies!

@VTypeV4 yes! That was the combo, twin valve head with a 1x15 driver… truly a wonderful sound!

I’m testing the waters on the local market… I’ve already sent messages around asking for info on a couple of the heads you pointed but no replies yet. 
I love shopping for  beautiful crafted items gone out of fashion 😁

[VTypeV4]

16 hours ago, michele said:

Guys, Thank you all for the very informative replies!

@VTypeV4 yes! That was the combo, twin valve head with a 1x15 driver… truly a wonderful sound!

I’m testing the waters on the local market… I’ve already sent messages around asking for info on a couple of the heads you pointed but no replies yet. 
I love shopping for  beautiful crafted items gone out of fashion 😁

 

I expect it would have been near perfect with a matching 2x10 - as long as someone else was moving it all! 🤣

 

Good luck with your search. 😃

 

 

[DGBass]

Most old school TE amps are getting on a bit now and thats probably the main thing to look out for, one that all works as it should. Of the two heads mentioned at the start of the thread, the AH250 GP11 is a monster in every respect wether the earlier models or its last incarnation the MK5 GP11. I don't think there is any gig situation one of them wouldn't cope with. Downside is they weigh as much as your average 4x10 cab. The GP7 SM150 is a completely different beast, lighter, more modern and perhaps a little under powered compared to earlier MK5 or Series 6 amps. I still own an AH250 GP11 MK5 that I picked up for £60 on eBay however it needed a bit or work to get it gig ready. I've giged it recently and its a joy to use. The power sections are bomb proof, and mostly issues with AH250's will be found in the pre-amp module. If I were to recommend an older TE amp, I'd plump for something like a Series 6 AH200 GP12, or an AH250 GP12 SMX as these are mostly bomb proof. The GP7 SMC 300 watt heads are also very good mosfet powered amps. If you can find an AH250 GP11 that  is all in good order, its a fantastic amp for the money as long as you don't mind the weight. 

[Kiwi]

On 12/09/2023 at 06:20, VTypeV4 said:

I had a Twin Valve combo for a while which was a fantastic sounding thing despite it's modest 115w rating and simple 7-band pre-amp. It weighed an absolute ton and was a pig to move plus the power stage was more than capable of finding the limits of the speaker but I'd happily own another - a lovely amplifier. I expect this was the amp you tried all those years ago as it was the only all valve combo they would have made back then - mine was built in 1990.

Trace also did a version of the all valve V4 amp in combo format in the mid 90's but they're super rare.  IIRC maybe only a hundred were made.  

[Hellzero]

5 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Trace also did a version of the all valve V4 amp in combo format in the mid 90's but they're super rare.  IIRC maybe only a hundred were made.  

Hundred is the weight, right?

[thodrik]

46 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Hundred is the weight, right?

I heard that they are still in the original Trace Elliot factory as nobody could move them. They are located right behind those 1980s 8x10 combos...

[Hellzero]

I nearly bought one...

[VTypeV4]

The V4 MK2 are ultra rare - as far as I could work out plus a conversation with Paul Stevens, there's apparently only about 45 that were ever built with 15 being a 1x15 combo another 15 being 2x10 format plus the heads, again of which there's fifteen. They are based around the V8 pre-amp which was a more advanced version of the original V-Type but with additional drive and compression features. The four-valve power power stage has plenty of 'go' in it and does around 200w . Super rare and a glorious sound but I have little doubt the combos will weigh as much as a small planet - my V4 MK2 head is bad enough.

 

@Kiwi The V4 MK2 combos are a little later than the '90s and are from around 2001. The V-Type combos from the 1990s were hybrids featuring the original V-Type pre-amp and the 250 / 300w SS output stage. Early green 'pimple' tolex ones only came as 1x15 although the later green furr examples also came as 4x8 (model 4808) using Celestion BG8-60 drivers. Again, like most Trace combos, they're horribly heavy but sound great.

[Hellzero]

24 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

I nearly bought one...

... of each. 🤦🏻‍♂️