Onboard Battery & Mains/UPS discussions

[sandy_r]

There have been a few threads recently (some linked below) which have discussed the possibility/advisability of powering active basses using an external battery or powerpack - there's also been some mention of pedalboard faults, possibly due to bad mains purity

 

With a few spare components, I've been able to check out the suggestion by @fleabag, and others, to see what happens when you use a powerbank, via 5V to 9V adaptor to power an active bass (NB I'm not suggesting you should -merely testing if you could!)

 

Another topic which has arisen recently is the possible susceptibility of pedalboards (or their PSUs) to bad mains supplies - powerbanks could be an entry-level into providing mains-independent supply for boards, without having to go full-UPS

 

For this test, I connected a 5V-to-9V step-up converter in a USB to 2.1 DC jack adaptor cable (£4.15 incl delivery, from *B*y, etc) to my Belkin 10000mAh powerbank, soldered a 2.1 inline socket to a PP3 cable/plug (reversing Red/Black polarity, because this cable is now the 'PP3')

 

I removed the PP3 in my active bass and connected the powerbank/step-up in its place, plugged the bass into my preamp and listened to the output on phones - it worked, no unexpected noise - and then, after a minute or so, it stopped!

 

The low current of my DIY onboard pre was not sufficient to make the Belkin think it had a load connected, so it autopowered-off (dayyum - it would have been ok if my bass was festooned with LEDs!)

 

Anyway, on to the other use - powering pedalboards - it does look like this approach just using a (negative-centre?) 2.1 jack, not PP3 connector, would provide mains-independant power to a pedalboard - eg. with a (true rated) 10,000 mAH powerbank the converter could supply around 800mA for 12.5 hours, so might be useful to supply small-to medium-sized boards where the quality of the mains supply is not up-to-spec**

 

(**NB problems caused to amps & pedals, by mains gensets, can be due not only to voltage level, but also by the frequency & waveform shape of the supply)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by sandy_r

[dudewheresmybass]

I recently did a fly date in Poland with a pedal board powered with a 10,000 maH power pack, and a usb to 9v cable bought on ebay. 

It went perfectly, and I used my Volto pack purely to power my wireless rig. 

I was powering 6 pedals (all mooer type/ size)

[sandy_r]

40 minutes ago, dudewheresmybass said:

I recently did a fly date in Poland with a pedal board powered with a 10,000 maH power pack, and a usb to 9v cable bought on ebay. 

It went perfectly, and I used my Volto pack purely to power my wireless rig. 

I was powering 6 pedals (all mooer type/ size)

 

Do you happen to know the approx total current draw of the 6 pedals?  

 

[dudewheresmybass]

Tbh I don't. 

But they're all analogue - rowin tuner, rowin slow hand (slow gear clone), rowin bass eq, ehx bass soul food, mosky bbox, donner Jet convolution.

I don't imagine it'd be a large number lol - and there's a max of 3 on at a time

 

[sandy_r]

Just now, dudewheresmybass said:

Tbh I don't. 

But they're all analogue - rowin tuner, rowin slow hand (slow gear clone), rowin bass eq, ehx bass soul food, mosky bbox, donner Jet convolution.

I don't imagine it'd be a large number lol - and there's a max of 3 on at a time

 

 

No worries - cheers!

[TimR]

These are already widely available. 

[sandy_r]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

These are already widely available. 

 

but apparently not widely known (cf. recent threads)

[TimR]

Seems not

 

Falken 1

Joyo JP-05

Harley Benton PowerPlant 

Mission 529

Anker 

Naztek

 

And also the Songbird USB to 9v adaptor to power pedals from anything else. https://www.songbirdfx.com/products/birdcord/

 

 

 

 

[sandy_r]

Let's hope that those of the products in your list, which are powerbanks for the 9V pedal market, rely on better tech than their advertising, going on the apparent lack of market penetration to their intended customers,- there's been mention of applying UPS tech to the OP problem in some threads

 

[Edit]  To recap on the 2 points of my initial post, to help with TL;DR:-

 

1) Yes, you can use an offboard powerbank and voltage step-up converter to power an active bass. It can be done without adding switching noise from the converter. Why you would want to do it though is up to you (and your powerbank may auto power-off anyway)

 

2) It's possible to power small-to-medium pedalboards using a regular phone-type powerbank and low-cost voltage-converters without having to revert to the cost and weight of UPS systems

 

(Compare the costs/features for your power needs - you may not need to spend £££+ on a Falken 1, Joyo JP-05, etc)

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by sandy_r

[TimR]

Thing is, you have mains power for your Amp, PA and lights and the rest of the band. It's a solution without a problem. 

 

I bought a power supply for £15, like most people. 

[sandy_r]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

Thing is, you have mains power for your Amp, PA and lights and the rest of the band. It's a solution without a problem. 

 

I bought a power supply for £15, like most people. 

 

That's what the OP did, too, oddly  

 

He's now trying to find out which of the elements in his board chain got trashed by the site supply - at the last count, he had a problem without a solution

 

[TimR]

Have replied to OP.

 

You're still trying to fix the symptom and not the root cause of the problem. 

[sandy_r]

9 minutes ago, TimR said:

Have replied to OP.

 

You're still trying to fix the symptom and not the root cause of the problem. 

 

 You seem to be mistaking me for someone who's trying to fix something

 

[police squad]

I used to gig using a variax JTV59. This is battery powered but by using the Line 6 A/B box (it sends the output to an XLR for acoustic sounds or jack for the electric sounds) and a TRS lead, it sends power to the guitar via the stereo jack

 

You need to remeber here, the A/B box isn't standard, it sends power up the TRS lead

 

Using this idea, it mus be fairly simple to power an active bass this way

[tauzero]

20 minutes ago, police squad said:

I used to gig using a variax JTV59. This is battery powered but by using the Line 6 A/B box (it sends the output to an XLR for acoustic sounds or jack for the electric sounds) and a TRS lead, it sends power to the guitar via the stereo jack

 

You need to remeber here, the A/B box isn't standard, it sends power up the TRS lead

 

Using this idea, it mus be fairly simple to power an active bass this way

 

I think the Variax power has +9V on the ring (the floor box is compatible with the older Variaxes which were 9V) and there would need to be some sort of detection of +9V on the ring which would switch to using on-board battery if a jack is plugged in, assuming the same approach as for the Variax, so not a straightforward change. The power requirement for a Variax is comparatively huge though, the average bass will use vastly less than that.

[police squad]

46 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I think the Variax power has +9V on the ring (the floor box is compatible with the older Variaxes which were 9V) and there would need to be some sort of detection of +9V on the ring which would switch to using on-board battery if a jack is plugged in, assuming the same approach as for the Variax, so not a straightforward change. The power requirement for a Variax is comparatively huge though, the average bass will use vastly less than that.

I've no idea but there must be a way to make something like this

[ahpook]

17 hours ago, sandy_r said:

There have been a few threads recently (some linked below) which have discussed the possibility/advisability of powering active basses using an external battery or powerpack - there's also been some mention of pedalboard faults, possibly due to bad mains purity

 

With a few spare components, I've been able to check out the suggestion by @fleabag, and others, to see what happens when you use a powerbank, via 5V to 9V adaptor to power an active bass (NB I'm not suggesting you should -merely testing if you could!)

 

Another topic which has arisen recently is the possible susceptibility of pedalboards (or their PSUs) to bad mains supplies - powerbanks could be an entry-level into providing mains-independent supply for boards, without having to go full-UPS

 

For this test, I connected a 5V-to-9V step-up converter in a USB to 2.1 DC jack adaptor cable (£4.15 incl delivery, from *B*y, etc) to my Belkin 10000mAh powerbank, soldered a 2.1 inline socket to a PP3 cable/plug (reversing Red/Black polarity, because this cable is now the 'PP3')

 

I removed the PP3 in my active bass and connected the powerbank/step-up in its place, plugged the bass into my preamp and listened to the output on phones - it worked, no unexpected noise - and then, after a minute or so, it stopped!

 

The low current of my DIY onboard pre was not sufficient to make the Belkin think it had a load connected, so it autopowered-off (dayyum - it would have been ok if my bass was festooned with LEDs!)

 

Anyway, on to the other use - powering pedalboards - it does look like this approach just using a (negative-centre?) 2.1 jack, not PP3 connector, would provide mains-independant power to a pedalboard - eg. with a (true rated) 10,000 mAH powerbank the converter could supply around 800mA for 12.5 hours, so might be useful to supply small-to medium-sized boards where the quality of the mains supply is not up-to-spec**

 

(**NB problems caused to amps & pedals, by mains gensets, can be due not only to voltage level, but also by the frequency & waveform shape of the supply)

 

 

 

Great stuff, thanks for testing this out.

 

It's just the kind of thing I'd quite happily spend an afternoon tinkering with 👍

[sandy_r]

4 minutes ago, ahpook said:

 

Great stuff, thanks for testing this out.

 

It's just the kind of thing I'd quite happily spend an afternoon tinkering with 👍

 

thanks for the kind words - much appreciated!

 

sometimes seemingly endless discussions can be answered by a quick test - on this occasion i was able to contribute (...i think!)

 

get yer tinker on! 😉

 

[ahpook]

11 minutes ago, sandy_r said:

sometimes seemingly endless discussions can be answered by a quick test - on this occasion i was able to contribute (...i think!)

 

 

Ain't science grand ?

 

[Cliff Edge]

I’ve been using a Hellion Li'l Moxie for a couple of years with no issues. Smallish pedal board including a SansAmp. Saves trailing wires and it’s nice and quiet.