When did you realise….. you weren’t going to “make it”?

[BigRedX]

22 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I've found being in bands generally quite dispiriting tbh. Apart from schlepping around from one venue after another,  playing the same material to indifferent crowds in pubs and at functions is a bit of a downer. Then there's often the argy bargy with band members about direction and negative reactions to songs you might've written.  Then, if you've actually made it there's all the shyte coming at you from  social media trolls and snarky music journos. If that's all water off a duck's back, big kudos to you. Me? Maybe I'm too sensitive a flower for that kind of life.

 

Maybe you've just been in the wrong bands?

 

For me over the last 20 years the band I've been in that has had the poorest audience reaction was the dad rock covers band, who should in theory have had the audience eating out of our hands. In practice for the most part all the originals bands I've been in have gone down better. The last two gigs I've done, there have been people down the front dancing from the first song and even singing along! That's all to music I've written. Maybe there are some people who don't like it. Who cares? There's plenty of people who do, and they are the ones that count. You can't please everyone and you'd be stupid to try and do so. That way leads to madness. Embrace the good, ignore the crap and get on with entertaining those who want to be entertained.

[WAYNESWORLD]

For me I made it,get to play music I like with band mates that are friends.We also get paid for doing something we enjoy without to much hassle.I’ve a very contented home life with a wonderful wife of 35 yrs and son I’m very proud of.With experience of making a living from something else I had great interest in and growing to hate it in later life. I am great full that I still get exited to day as much as I did when I first started many years ago. I suspect a lot of the (stars) today have lost that feeling . The ones that have truly made it are the ones who still love what they do having been very successful and also have a great home life.This industry can give great rewards and fame but also be one of the cruelest mistresses or what ever the correct pro noun is these days.

[NikNik]

6 hours ago, BigRedX said:

IME having just about any kind of job (or a family for that matter) is almost totally incompatible with being in a band that has any hopes of success. If you can't drop everything to do that last minute gig then you put the band at a disadvantage compared with all those are prepared to make these "sacrifices". Perhaps there will be time for a family once you are established as a musician. You also need to be one of the band's songwriters or at least have negotiated a share of the songwriting royalties in order to still have some money coming in after the band is over.

 

The only time I have been able to put in something approaching the time and effort that is required to be more than just a weekend warrior, was in the 80s when I was unemployed, and more recently now I am self-employed and can be more flexible about how I allocate my time.

I was certainly prepared to do that: drop everything and go. My GF/Wife had talked about this and she could handle the mortgage, but an income from being a musician simply had to raise its head at some point. otherwise it would have been unfair. Security was more important to me, I must admit. Being an artist living in penury wasn't an attraction to me. But I knew guys who packed their jobs in, went on the dole and got housing support (in those days you got 70% of your rent paid) and got some level of success and recognition, albeit short-lived. Or found nothing beyond the local and Uni circuit.

 

Proficiency aside, I understood the need to make contacts to get a call if I was between bands but there was a feeling of treading water. As for moving to London, it took one visit (for an audition) to convince me that city was not for me. My audition (for a signed, male singer guitarist) time was attenuated by other bassists still doing 'the sell' as they were leaving the rehearsal room. One even brought along his keyboard-playing pal and did 'the sell' in front of me, which reeked of desperation, as with the guy who turned up in full Confederate uniform at the end of my audition: he had already had his time but returned for another attempt at 'the sell'. The audition went well but they asked me to come back next week for another one but I really couldn't afford it, and the knowledge that I'd have to get digs quick in London if I got the gig came into sharp focus. I refused the second audition. If I couldn't make it up north, so be it.

Edited September 14, 2023 by NikNik

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

Maybe you've just been in the wrong bands?

 

For me over the last 20 years the band I've been in that has had the poorest audience reaction was the dad rock covers band, who should in theory have had the audience eating out of our hands. In practice for the most part all the originals bands I've been in have gone down better. The last two gigs I've done, there have been people down the front dancing from the first song and even singing along! That's all to music I've written. Maybe there are some people who don't like it. Who cares? There's plenty of people who do, and they are the ones that count. You can't please everyone and you'd be stupid to try and do so. That way leads to madness. Embrace the good, ignore the crap and get on with entertaining those who want to be entertained.

Well between the ages of ages 18 and 37 I must've been in close to 40 different bands, anything from a couple of gigs to a couple of years. There were a couple formed with mates with similar tastes that were good fun but ended due to stuff like new wives, new kids, new country. In most cases I'd joined through ads or having mutual friends and most of the time I felt like the hired help. So, when things got sh1tty there wasn't enough to keep these bands together or I just left because the music they played didn't interest me. Unlike some BCers I just can't get into playing songs I wouldn't choose to listen to for pleasure. 

[BigRedX]

17 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Well between the ages of ages 18 and 37 I must've been in close to 40 different bands, anything from a couple of gigs to a couple of years. There were a couple formed with mates with similar tastes that were good fun but ended due to stuff like new wives, new kids, new country. In most cases I'd joined through ads or having mutual friends and most of the time I felt like the hired help. So, when things got sh1tty there wasn't enough to keep these bands together or I just left because the music they played didn't interest me. Unlike some BCers I just can't get into playing songs I wouldn't choose to listen to for pleasure. 

 

To me that seems like a lot of bands. In the 50 years I have been playing I've been in about 20 and that includes a few who never made it out of the rehearsal room. Plus a musical project that existed for less than 2 weeks during which time we wrote and recorded two instrumental dance tracks that we put out on a limited edition 10" white label single. The others all played at least a handful of gigs and well over half have recorded and released music for public consumption. Some of those releases were even organised and paid for by people who were not in the band.

 

I suppose it helps that most bands I've been in were either instigated by me, or I have been responsible for composing at least half of the musical output. Also I have enough "front" to be able to get up on stage or in the recording studio playing guitar and synthesiser even though I'm not particularly good at it. I'm pretty ordinary bass player too. Like yourself I can't get into playing songs I wouldn't normally listen to for pleasure, but that doesn't seem to have ever been a problem when it came to finding bands or musicians to play with. I've been in bands with people who were my friends before we started playing in a band together and bands with "randoms" who I have met through ads in music shops, record stores and on the internet, and maybe I've been lucky but maybe also I've been sufficiently selective when it comes to choosing people to make music with.

 

For me the least satisfying music project I have done was the dad rock covers band. It should have been great - the music I grew up with and one of the guitarists was a very good friend of mine which is how I came to know about them and had seen them play several times before I joined. Maybe I had too high expectations, or maybe it was unfortunate that my stint with the band coincided with also being in The Terrortones who were more artistically satisfying, more fun, did more gigs and made more money for seemingly a lot less effort.

 

Maybe I've just been lucky. I'd like to think that mostly I've made my own luck.

[BassTractor]

Don't know what I'm doing in this thread, coz I actually "made it".
To me, "making it" was:

- composing the music I liked,
- recording and playing, with good musicians who were also nice people,

- my own and others' music
- to tiny but receptive audiences.
I did that, and before anyone thinks I'm boasting about my audience numbers: those audiences twice were the building's caretaker, who had to be there. 😃

In practical terms this was left behind when we chose to live in rural Norway, where I needed to do "proper" work to survive.
So in '84 I realised I wasn't going to "make it" anymore.

Edited September 15, 2023 by BassTractor

[diskwave]

Threads got me thinking and remembering a lot of stuff.

 

That thing when you've setup but the male bog door is on ur side of the stage, and this can be the case in the nicest of places and that wiff of toilet cleaner hits u every now and again.....I can remember it now looking out onto a packed floor, me killing Boogie Oogie Oogie or similiar and then that pong hits you. Haha, the life of a pro musician.

 

You either love the circus life and grease paint or you don't. To be fair I did for a few years and then it wained, and once it starts to go there's no stopping it.

[Linus27]

1 hour ago, greavesbass said:

Threads got me thinking and remembering a lot of stuff.

 

That thing when you've setup but the male bog door is on ur side of the stage, and this can be the case in the nicest of places and that wiff of toilet cleaner hits u every now and again.....I can remember it now looking out onto a packed floor, me killing Boogie Oogie Oogie or similiar and then that pong hits you. Haha, the life of a pro musician.

 

You either love the circus life and grease paint or you don't. To be fair I did for a few years and then it wained, and once it starts to go there's no stopping it.

 

I loved the circus life, absolutely love it, travelling across the country, venue to venue, playing in a new town or city, meeting new people, playing a gig which might be absolutely amazing or go disastrously wrong but still having a laugh along the way. It was one giant adventure and I love every second of it. Some people used to moan about it and say its really boring, they hated it, hated all the travelling etc. so I would just say to them then stop if you don't like it then go and get a regular job but this is a gift, to be on tour, to play music, not everyone gets this opportunity or life style so you make the most of it, make it work for you but if this is too much hard work and you'd sooner be working in a shop, or a factory or an office then you crack on but doing this is my dream and I am going to love every second of it. Most seemed to get it after that and enjoyed it but not all.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Linus27

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

To me that seems like a lot of bands. 

 It only averages out at 2 a year. In one year alone I was in 8 bands, none of which I did more than 5 gigs. It also includes depping once or twice in function bands. I like to spread myself thinly! My motto is 'if you don't succeed at first bail out as quickly as possible'

[BigRedX]

25 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

 

I loved the circus life, absolutely love it, travelling across the country, venue to venue, playing in a new town or city, meeting new people, playing a gig which might be absolutely amazing or go disastrously wrong but still having a laugh along the way. It was one giant adventure and I love every second of it. Some people used to moan about it and say its really boring, they hated it, hated all the travelling etc. so I would just say to them then stop if you don't like it and go and get a regular job but this is a gift, to be on tour, to play music, not everyone gets this opportunity or life style so you make the most of it, make it work for you but if this is too much hard work and you'd sooner be working in a shop, or a factory or an office then you crack on but doing this is my dream and I am going to love every second of it. Most seemed to get it after that and enjoyed it but not all.

 

This. Absolutely this! All of it.

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, BassTractor said:

those audiences twice were the building's caretaker

We once played a gig to a cardboard cutout of Marc Bolan... The sound man had gone into the bar next door, which is where the barpeeps were. To be fair, the other band came in about 1/2 way through which added 4. But that's what happens on a rainy winter night in Abertillary!

[Musicman666]

great question ....i guess my answer is that i never really believed i would  ..always did it for the music. 

[BassTractor]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

We once played a gig to a cardboard cutout of Marc Bolan... The sound man had gone into the bar next door, which is where the barpeeps were. To be fair, the other band came in about 1/2 way through which added 4. But that's what happens on a rainy winter night in Abertillary!

You won. One Marc Bolan trumps two caretakers every day including rainy winter nights. 😃

[Lozz196]

5 hours ago, Linus27 said:

 

I loved the circus life, absolutely love it, travelling across the country, venue to venue, playing in a new town or city, meeting new people, playing a gig which might be absolutely amazing or go disastrously wrong but still having a laugh along the way. It was one giant adventure and I love every second of it. Some people used to moan about it and say its really boring, they hated it, hated all the travelling etc. so I would just say to them then stop if you don't like it then go and get a regular job but this is a gift, to be on tour, to play music, not everyone gets this opportunity or life style so you make the most of it, make it work for you but if this is too much hard work and you'd sooner be working in a shop, or a factory or an office then you crack on but doing this is my dream and I am going to love every second of it. Most seemed to get it after that and enjoyed it but not all.

Yep, whilst I was in my last band pretty much every weekend we were up & down the country, staying over in hotels, getting planes or ferries to other countries, was great. On the way to the gigs we used to discuss our day jobs and always end with “and that’s all they’ve got, where we’ve got this”, looking forward to the gig(s) we were on way to.
 

Sadly the workload just got too much for me in the end but I loved all of it, where I’d like to have had more time doing it I got 6 great years.

[Linus27]

33 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Yep, whilst I was in my last band pretty much every weekend we were up & down the country, staying over in hotels, getting planes or ferries to other countries, was great. On the way to the gigs we used to discuss our day jobs and always end with “and that’s all they’ve got, where we’ve got this”, looking forward to the gig(s) we were on way to.
 

Sadly the workload just got too much for me in the end but I loved all of it, where I’d like to have had more time doing it I got 6 great years.

 

Yep, absolutely and so many fabulous memories and life experiences. Waiting at Dover to cross into France, challenging the girls British Netball team to a game of netball and then football and being totally destroyed by them 😁 Being in France playing at a huge international music festival and getting into a huge food fight in the food hall with a Spanish trad band 😂 Miming in Dundee shopping centre to promote our latest single and coming out to perform to find our roadies had set all our gear up back to front and upside down 😂 Getting a visit from the Welsh Police in the early hours of the morning whilst recording an album due to our drummer get very drunk and walking back to the studio from the pub the night before with a gate which in turn let all the sheep out to roam around the village the following morning 😂 Playing at a festival in Reigate on a beautiful sunny day being buzzed by the Red Arrows mid set and everyone coming up to us afterwards asking if we'd arranged that which we took credit for 😂 

 

So many more amazing memories, loved every minute of it.

[Buddster]

In 1983, at the age of 18 I left the band I was in as I landed a job in a Bristol studio and couldn't do both. I felt I had more of a career in music working in studios than in a band. I knew that we were never going to be signed (despite the singers ego), but was totally paranoid after I left that they just might. 

However, with exposure to better bands who didn't get signed, it didn't take long to realise that they never were and I'd made the correct decision. 

 

I've worked with a few bands that did get signed up by major labels, record an album but had no promotion and were basically a tax right off for the label. A very sad situation for the bands involved. 

[NikNik]

11 hours ago, Linus27 said:

 

Yep, absolutely and so many fabulous memories and life experiences. Waiting at Dover to cross into France, challenging the girls British Netball team to a game of netball and then football and being totally destroyed by them 😁 Being in France playing at a huge international music festival and getting into a huge food fight in the food hall with a Spanish trad band 😂 Miming in Dundee shopping centre to promote our latest single and coming out to perform to find our roadies had set all our gear up back to front and upside down 😂 Getting a visit from the Welsh Police in the early hours of the morning whilst recording an album due to our drummer get very drunk and walking back to the studio from the pub the night before with a gate which in turn let all the sheep out to roam around the village the following morning 😂 Playing at a festival in Reigate on a beautiful sunny day being buzzed by the Red Arrows mid set and everyone coming up to us afterwards asking if we'd arranged that which we took credit for 😂 

 

So many more amazing memories, loved every minute of it.

Sounds like Festival Interceltique in Lorient? Did that a few times on technical production.

[Linus27]

26 minutes ago, NikNik said:

Sounds like Festival Interceltique in Lorient? Did that a few times on technical production.

 

It was The Belfort International Festival of University Music. It was musician's from all over the world playing at various venues in the town of Belfort. We were a guitar punk pop band like Ash, Stereophonics, Manics etc. and played on the main stage. This was our backdrop, a gigantic Lion that looked over the courtyard. We got to meet up and watch Jazz musicians from Canada, marching bands from France, traditional bands from Portugal, Croatia, punk bands from France and soul bands from the UK. The whole town became a 3 day festival and it was absolutely brilliant. This was our backdrop

 

[Lozz196]

Furthering on this am jetting off to Portugal on Monday to record our (The Spacewasters) 2nd album. No instruments needed as the studio has them all (I’ll find out what I’m using when I get there), accommodation at the studio.
 

Now we’re not professional, no chance of being so and under no illusions that this makes us so, but what a great hobby to have where we have the opportunity to do something like this.

[obbm]

Never had any ambitions to become professional, just not good enough and I wanted a steady career.  I'm probably a better player now than I was 60 years ago. 

 

By a strange quirk I ended up playing for a songwriter in the early 2000s and went with him to Austin, Texas to record an album.  Took 2 weeks leave.  One of the best holidays I've ever had but 3 months later I was made redundant and that was the end of the day job.  Played for him again in 2005 and as I had no day job I suppose I was professional as I had no main income.  Did 80 gigs that year but made no money.

 

He was never signed however still writing, gigging and recording.  Won't put his music on on-line platforms. Sells CDs to pay for beer and holidays.

[Thump]

In my teenage years i always hoped i'd make an impact in the music scene. Metallica were huge at the time, black album just released. 

We were 4 guitars , of which only one of us had any real talent(not me), no singer , a bass(also not me) and drums. The drummer was and still is, a very gifted pianist and good friend of mine to this day.

We really thought we had something too, no idea why we thought that. We were terrible. 

 

So , 30 years ago is when my dreams of international fame and stardom came to an abrupt end.

[Nebadon2000]

When we were backup music and props for Topless Dancers in a Dive Club on Long Island NY

[Dan Dare]

Never thought I would "make it" in the usually accepted sense - live in a castle, have helicopter and Ferrari, etc. I had short periods of playing for a living, but I nearly always kept a "proper" job going. By the time I turned 30, I realised I would likely need a pension, so kept the music as a side-line that made me some extra lolly. Had a lot of fun and got to play with good people and go to nice places courtesy of the music. Now I'm in my dotage and able to live comfortably, I'm glad I did things the way I did. I know several people who did better than I did back in the day from music, but life is not as easy for them now as it is for me.

[Mickeyboro]

1 hour ago, obbm said:

Never had any ambitions to become professional, just not good enough and I wanted a steady career.  I'm probably a better player now than I was 60 years ago. 

 

By a strange quirk I ended up playing for a songwriter in the early 2000s and went with him to Austin, Texas to record an album.  Took 2 weeks leave.  One of the best holidays I've ever had but 3 months later I was made redundant and that was the end of the day job.  Played for him again in 2005 and as I had no day job I suppose I was professional as I had no main income.  Did 80 gigs that year but made no money.

 

He was never signed however still writing, gigging and recording.  Won't put his music on on-line platforms. Sells CDs to pay for beer and holidays.

Remember seeing you with Micky Kemp👍

[obbm]

41 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

Remember seeing you with Micky Kemp👍

Somewhere in Morden if I remember correctly. The "Micky Kemp Band" went out under the name of "Badlands" supporting a Guns and Roses tribute band who where running out of steam, bored and just going through the motions.  You came to talk to Micky about Ryan Adams.