On Stage Earplugs?

[Downunderwonder]

17 hours ago, Linus27 said:

They were only a tenner so if I get on with them then I'll then get the Pro series custom fit ones.

They are completely different animals. I would not form any opinion on the custom molds based on the universal ones.

 

15dB is pretty minimal if you are right next to the PA stack but for goodness sakes put them in both ears!!!!!

[JoeEvans]

I always wear earplugs now for more or less any musical activity. 10db for acoustic sessions (I play Irish trad and fiddles are loud!); 20db if there's a drummer using sticks not brushes. If I was in a loud band I'd want 25db+.

The great thing for bass players is that with earplugs in, the higher the level of protection, the better you can hear the important bits: yourself and the kick drum.

[Boodang]

After damaging my hearing when young in stupidly loud bands, it's now too painful for me to have excessive volume on stage. I used to wear decent earplugs but recently I bought an XR18 and now the band have gone in ears, with the exception of our new singer who's not used to them and uses a monitor. 

However, a second band I've just started up are still in the old 'valve amps' stage and while it's not that loud, the overall volume is out of my control. So what I'm doing is running a signal to the XR18, even if it's not going from there to FoH, and then creating my own monitor mix to my in ears and thus can now control the volume to a certain extent. Overall benefit though, apart from reducing volume, is the quality of the monitor mix I hear which is totally under my control and makes a huge difference live.

[uk_lefty]

19 hours ago, Linus27 said:

Our singer/guitarist tends to have the sound on stage really loud and is always being told he needs to turn down by sound crews. If he is doing the sound for us which is most gigs, then its always too loud and again is always being told to turn down and the front of house needs to turn down as well. We've said and others have said its all too loud but its become a bit of joke in the sense before we sound check we tell him he's too loud. However, its a losing battle so I decided to try ear plugs on Saturday night and tried the foam squidgy ones in one ear but it muted the sound too much. I have tried in-ears before but felt disconnected to the live sound so is there any better ear plugs I could try before I revisit in-ears?

ACS Customs are great. Even cheap ACS plugs are good but the customs are on a different level. You have to protect your ears, you don't get second chances with your hearing. 

 

You can feel a bit disconnected at first while wearing them but after two rehearsals you'll be used to it. 

[Linus27]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

They are completely different animals. I would not form any opinion on the custom molds based on the universal ones.

 

15dB is pretty minimal if you are right next to the PA stack but for goodness sakes put them in both ears!!!!!

 

Will do and thank you.

[Linus27]

1 hour ago, JoeEvans said:

I always wear earplugs now for more or less any musical activity. 10db for acoustic sessions (I play Irish trad and fiddles are loud!); 20db if there's a drummer using sticks not brushes. If I was in a loud band I'd want 25db+.

The great thing for bass players is that with earplugs in, the higher the level of protection, the better you can hear the important bits: yourself and the kick drum.

 

On a different note, I'd love to play in an Irish Trad band, what's the name of your band so I can try and have a listen?

[Linus27]

7 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

Yep, ASC Pro17's get my vote as well. I must have used them for the last 15 years both playing, rehearsing and attending gigs. 👍

 

Just finished rehearsing tonight with a bunch of very talented musicians that I've been with for 2 years. Unfortunately I'm seriously considering giving it up. 😢 I can see so much potential to take the band from "good" to "excellent" by working on the sound, both the balance, dynamics and overall volume levels. However only the singer is appreciating what I'm proposing. Her husband, one of the guitarists, has serious hearing loss in one ear and is refusing / ignoring / "still in teenager mode" as far as volume, guitar tone and sound levels are concerned. The last few songs we played tonight I mimed. Yep, I turned my bass down to 0 and pretended to play along.......no-one noticed and I even asked the other guitarist how the overall sound of the songs were....."Great" was the reply and then I told him I'd mimed.......😲 I asked myself "If they couldn't hear a difference, do they need a bass player?"

 

Sorry for the grumble....back to the OP....I use ACS to protect my hearing but feel in some situations I shouldnt need to. I find that many of my peers have hearing loss and play louder to compensate.....thus compounding their hearing loss so then they turn up more The usual response is "We used to play this loud in the 70's". No you didn't because the gear you're now using is twice as powerful with more headroom and the old WEM 3x10 PA columns maxed out at 50w per side wouldn't allow the vocals to go higher.

 

I've been playing for over 40 years now and am tired of the "quantity over quality" being dictated by ego's. But then, is it just MY ego that's saying "my way is the right way?"  🤣🤣

 

I actually have a similar story. A band I was in back at the end of the 90's, at one rehearsal the drummer says the bass is too loud, can you turn down. I was surprised as I was not any louder than normal and I'm actually a quite player as well. So I turn down. We play the song but again, he says I'm still too loud so I turn down a bit more but again, after playing the song, he says I am still too loud. The singer also joins in and says yeah, I think you are too loud so I turn down more and play super softly but nope, still really loud. Confused by all of this I say ok, I'll turn down more but turn my amp off. We play the song again and yep, I'm too loud so I point out that my amp isn't actually on and it turns out it was the rhythm guitarist 🤣 We turn him down and put me back to the original levels and everything was ok again.

[diskwave]

16 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

The problem with plugs, ear protection, etc is that either the whole band has to use them or nobody. I don't like them personally - they make me feel isolated from what's going on, but I have to use them sometimes in self-defence. My preferred option is that nobody uses them and we keep onstage levels reasonable and let the FOH do the heavy lifting. Once one person, especially the guitard, wears them and turns up so he can hear himself, everything goes to hell in a handcart very quickly.

All that wil change if you read about poor poor old Debbie Harry. Shes got acute tinnitus now thanks to Clems incessant cymbal smashing. I know of two other cases of peeps who's tinnitus was so bad they ended it all. 

[JoeEvans]

2 hours ago, Linus27 said:

 

On a different note, I'd love to play in an Irish Trad band, what's the name of your band so I can try and have a listen?

It's a bit complicated ... I play accordion at pub sessions, but I also do ceilidh gigs for weddings etc on both bass and accordion. But the ceilidh gigs are with various different 'bands' which are really more like agencies, getting the gigs then seeing who's available from a big pool of musicians. You could be playing with people you've never met, and the client could end up with the same musicians if they booked three different bands! 

To add to the stress, nobody on the scene seems to bother discussing which tunes they're going to play, so you just work it out while the caller is teaching the dance. And there are no fixed chords to go with each tune, so it's exciting playing bass because you have to psychically agree a chord structure on the fly with the guitarist...

But, the weddings are pretty well paid and it's great fun when it goes well.

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, greavesbass said:

All that wil change if you read about poor poor old Debbie Harry. Shes got acute tinnitus now thanks to Clems incessant cymbal smashing. I know of two other cases of peeps who's tinnitus was so bad they ended it all. 

 

DH is 78 now. So her hearing would have deteriorated with age anyway. I'm 70 and mine is not what it was (high frequency loss mainly, which is almost inevitable with age. Acuteness is fine). Obviously, if one is playing large, loud stages, as was DH, the problem will be greater.

 

As I said, I do carry and use plugs (I had proper custom fit ones made), but I prefer not to if I can avoid it.

[JapanAxe]

I have been using hearing protection at gigs for the last 20 years. I’ve mainly used Doc’s Pro Plugs which provide some attenuation without losing the definition (which for me is the big problem with foam plugs). I recently got a pair of non-fitted 16dB ACS. Earlier this year I realised I had tinnitus, which for me manifests as a high-pitched whistling. Fortunately it’s only really noticeable in quiet environments, and doesn’t cause me any bother.

 

The on-stage sound level varies a lot depending on the band I’m playing with. I dep with a tribute band where no-one uses an amp on stage and although it has taken me a while to adjust to IEMs, this means much lower sound levels in my ears. At the other end of the scale is a pub band where the main vocalist’s wedge monitor is excruciatingly loud. I can cope with this by putting an ACS in my more sensitive ear and a Doc loosely in the other. I still need to hear my guitar amp without it being too loud for the room and the rest of the band. If we can’t come up with a workable solution then I’m minded to stop working with them, which would be a shame because it’s steady work and they’re nice folks.

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

 . . .  a pub band where the main vocalist’s wedge monitor is excruciatingly loud. I can cope with this by putting an ACS in my more sensitive ear and a Doc loosely in the other. I still need to hear my guitar amp without it being too loud for the room and the rest of the band. If we can’t come up with a workable solution then I’m minded to stop working with them, which would be a shame because it’s steady work and they’re nice folks.

 

Get proper moulded ACS plugs and save your hearing.

[JapanAxe]

15 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

Get proper moulded ACS plugs and save your hearing.

The trouble is, I won't be able to hear anything then - not through deafness, but because the earplugs are so effective.

[Dan Dare]

27 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

The trouble is, I won't be able to hear anything then - not through deafness, but because the earplugs are so effective.

 

The ones I had made are for shooters. The idea behind them is that they allow normal level sound through but block loud transients. I found the company that makes them at The Game Fair a few years ago (I'm partial to a bit of fishing and shooting). They work as claimed, but I would still rather not use them unless necessary. The firm is Custom Fit Guards. Google will find them.

[chris_b]

2 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

The trouble is, I won't be able to hear anything then - not through deafness, but because the earplugs are so effective.

 

That's why they have different dB ratings, so, depending on the band and their volume, you can hear everything.

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

The ones I had made are for shooters. The idea behind them is that they allow normal level sound through but block loud transients. I found the company that makes them at The Game Fair a few years ago (I'm partial to a bit of fishing and shooting). They work as claimed, but I would still rather not use them unless necessary. The firm is Custom Fit Guards. Google will find them.

 

The gunshot plugs usually have a diaphragm that snaps shut when a very sudden peak of volume hits it. That isn't how music works, unless you do a version of the 1812.

[Phil Starr]

I'm using in-ears as often as possible nowadays but I always carry Pacatos in my bass case. Sometimes you can't get a feed for the in ears and I just never want to go back to the noise levels some people seem to think is clever.

 

Don't give up on in-ears, the feeling of detachment only lasts a couple of gigs 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Phil Starr

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, JapanAxe said:

The trouble is, I won't be able to hear anything then - not through deafness, but because the earplugs are so effective.

Doubful. If 15dB attenuation can make you deaf to the music you have bigger problems. 

[JapanAxe]

10 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Doubful. If 15dB attenuation can make you deaf to the music you have bigger problems. 

I thought about this and realised that the one time I used my ACS in both ears I was playing outdoors under a gazebo, and that was the bigger problem.

 

Although I do have some hearing loss in the upper frequencies, I think the real issue is volume wars - if I turn my amp up to hear my guitar over the singer’s monitor, it will be too loud out front. And yes I have my amp up on a stand, not firing at my knees. IEMs would be the ideal solution - I have a good set but I can’t see the band splashing out on them (and I’m a dep so I don’t really get a vote).

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, JapanAxe said:

I thought about this and realised that the one time I used my ACS in both ears I was playing outdoors under a gazebo, and that was the bigger problem.

 

Although I do have some hearing loss in the upper frequencies, I think the real issue is volume wars - if I turn my amp up to hear my guitar over the singer’s monitor, it will be too loud out front. And yes I have my amp up on a stand, not firing at my knees. IEMs would be the ideal solution - I have a good set but I can’t see the band splashing out on them (and I’m a dep so I don’t really get a vote).

If you had your own ambient mic and mixer you could do an independent IEM setup and dep away merrily not bothering anyone.

[Linus27]

So just a bit of an update from me, I tried the ACS Pacato 16 universal fit ear plugs last night and I really didn't get on with them. They fitted fine but everything sounded sort of muffled and underwater and when the singer spoke to me, I had to try and learn to lip read as it sounded like he was behind a wall like when you hear someone speaking in the next room and its muffled. As soon as I took them out, everything was crystal clear again although stupidly loud still but that's another story. Not sure where this leaves me as they were giving the lower attenuation and flatter response at 16db but I lost all definition and dynamics. I'll give them another few goes for sure as it might just be a case of getting used to them.

[chris_b]

31 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

. . . .  but I lost all definition and dynamics.

 

That's what deafness sounds like! Best to learn to deal with the plugs and save your hearing.

 

At least the plugs are temporary. Deafness isn't.

[fretmeister]

41 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

So just a bit of an update from me, I tried the ACS Pacato 16 universal fit ear plugs last night and I really didn't get on with them. They fitted fine but everything sounded sort of muffled and underwater and when the singer spoke to me, I had to try and learn to lip read as it sounded like he was behind a wall like when you hear someone speaking in the next room and its muffled. As soon as I took them out, everything was crystal clear again although stupidly loud still but that's another story. Not sure where this leaves me as they were giving the lower attenuation and flatter response at 16db but I lost all definition and dynamics. I'll give them another few goes for sure as it might just be a case of getting used to them.

 

The Pacato ones are not a patch on the proper ones.

But it's quite normal to take plugs out when talking and put them in again when playing. If you do get the proper ones then having the optional extra of the grips makes that a lot easier than without.

 

All ear protection of any type is a compromise as no matter the method it is something in the way of the original soundwave, but the ACS are the best passive option. Dynamics are reduced no matter what passive method is used - that's part of the needed process to provide more protection from high pressure transient sounds.

 

The active option is to move to IEMs where your ears are blocked and you get a personal monitor mix set up just for you. but that's quite a bit more money and equipment to buy and carry around with you.

 

It really is a simple choice between protecting your hearing or not. But if you don't then it won't be long before everything sounds awful and you need to lip read when watching the TV.

 

 

[JoeEvans]

Brief update - I recently bought a pair of the £10 ACS Pacato earplugs and tried them for the first time at a pub session last night. It was a noisy one (four fiddles, three accordion and a couple of other instruments) so I thought I'd try a step up from my usual 10db. The ACS plugs were great - slightly clearer treble than other plugs I've tried and in general really good sound. I'm going to investigate the custom plugs now, evidently their filters are good for my needs.

[guyl]

Just adding my agreement for the custom moulded earplugs. May seem pricey compared to off the shelf, but incomparably better. Mine feel just like turning down the volume across the entire frequency range, rather than only blocking/muffling certain frequencies. 
 

Your hearing doesn’t grow back once you damage it…