Pirellithecat Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 Hi, I'm without my gigging bass for a few months so rather than buying a "new" bass, I'm trying to get my "spares" into shape! I have a very playable Made in Japan, Squire Silver Series which has a great 40mm neck which is a joy to play. But for gigging in a Covers band it just doesn't cut through - kind of muffled. I can't solve this with EQ-ing as I suspect the frequencies just aren't present from the bass. It's been round the houses in terms of mods (different pickups, different pots, different pot rating (250k/500k), different Strings, new Hipshot tuners, Gotoh bridge, String tree, etc) none of which seem to have fundamentally changed the sound so I've put it back to "stock" except the tuners and the pots. So 2 questions really. 1) Have I missed something that I should try? 2) Given the neck is so nice to play, is it worth trying it on a different body? (or could it be the neck itself which generates the dialled in tone?) Previously I've used it with TI flats for bluesy stuff and its fine for that genre. I'm reluctant to sell it as, compared to P basses I've tried recently, it is FAR nicer to play and the 40mm neck is great. I don't really want to butcher it in any way, either, as its a fine example of the series. (eg - Pick up route is fairly shallow so some replacement pickups eg Geezer Butler won't fit. Thoughts welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) You do use roundwound strings right? Though some P pickups just sounds rather muffled and wooly inherently (so swapping the pickup for a more well defined and articulate P pickup ought to help. A shame about the EMG Geezer Butler P not fitting, as that would have been perfect for that). Applying a HPF around 40Hz, and eventually cutting some low end further, around 100Hz to 200Hz or so, and boosting some high mids, around 1kHz or so, should help improving definition and articulation though. Edited September 20, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted September 20, 2023 Author Share Posted September 20, 2023 Yes - using Roundwounds. Unlike my other basses, this one doesn't respond well to EQ - I certainly reduce the low end and boost the mids, as you say, but all that really happens is it sound just as muffled, but "thinner" if that makes sense?? However, I do find semi parametric mids problematic as in controlling the things I want, a lot of the adjacent frequencies which I actually "want" get lost too. I am a simple chap though ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernaut Posted September 21, 2023 Share Posted September 21, 2023 I had this problem when switching from a J to a P. I found it's all in the EQ - I keep the bass and treble at noon, bump the mids at 1k and 1.5k and adjust the tone knob to suit, normally 9/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moley6knipe Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 In all seriousness, try a set of Ernie Ball cobalt roundwounds if you haven’t already. They’ve got SOOO much heft it could well unmuffle you! They’re great strings, but my Fender Dimensions are already aggressively voiced so I moved back to nickels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 What's your pickup height (i.e. distance from the strings)? I believe this affects tone more than is talked about really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 Pickup Height - well.... I've just checked that and it might be a tad too low .... so I've taken everything apart, put new "foam" under the pickups and re-assembled. Not sure it sounds any different, but I'll reserve judgement until I take it to rehearsal on Wednesday. I've actually also reduced the relief on the neck and adjusted string height and intonation - certainly this makes it a little better to play but I'll leave it overnight and check it all tomorrow once everything has settled down a tad. It does play really nicely, and the 40mm neck is great and it might be that I'm expecting too much tonal variation from an "old" P bass. On the Cobalt front, I've tried these in the past and find the D'addario NYXL's brighter ... I currently have GHS Bass Boomers on it just to experiment, but these don't really improve things over the NYXL's. But good thought. I'll report back after rehearsals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 If you've tried different PUPs and different strings, it sounds to me like you're expecting a active bass zing/sizzle from a passive bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Check that your tone pot isn't touching anything it shouldn't - it could be dumping all of your top end to ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 14 hours ago, Beedster said: If you've tried different PUPs and different strings, it sounds to me like you're expecting a active bass zing/sizzle from a passive bass? I suspect that you might be right! However, when I listen to other players using P Basses I don't notice the "muffledness" but that could very well be that, from the audience point of view, everything sounds the same😂 I really should try an alternative , but it has to be at home, as in shops I find it difficult to really judge the sound as I'm usually hijacked by the action/playability and my ears seem to have a "shop filter" . But that would be the definitive QC check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 14 hours ago, paul_5 said: Check that your tone pot isn't touching anything it shouldn't - it could be dumping all of your top end to ground. Yep - had it all apart last night and the tone pot is OK. It works in so far as it increases "muffledness" when rotated anticlockwise!! But good thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I don’t know the genre of music you play but I suspect you are a finger style player ? I struggled with clarity and punch with fingers on all my PBass guitars even trying numerous pedals and amps to improve it The result was playing with a pick !! The improvement was night and day and after dropping mids and boosting bass the pick played PBass sounded awesome with clarity Worked for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 21 hours ago, BassAdder60 said: I don’t know the genre of music you play but I suspect you are a finger style player ? I struggled with clarity and punch with fingers on all my PBass guitars even trying numerous pedals and amps to improve it The result was playing with a pick !! The improvement was night and day and after dropping mids and boosting bass the pick played PBass sounded awesome with clarity Worked for me Yes, you're right Pick transforms the sound! Sadly I'm unable to use a pick for anything more than the simplest of pieces........ I'll keep trying ...... it's a lovely bass to play! Ta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy_r Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 40 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said: Yes, you're right Pick transforms the sound! Sadly I'm unable to use a pick for anything more than the simplest of pieces........ I'll keep trying ...... it's a lovely bass to play! Ta! Two non-pick methods which have helped me 'sharpen' the sound are either to use the side of the index finger to get a distinct and firm 'snap' to each note, or by maintaining the fingernails just slightly longer, on the index and second fingers, and plucking the strings with fingertips - again a 'sharper' sound, sort of midway between pick and pad of finger. Could help, if not already tried 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 IME muffled P bass means dead strings, duff pickups or your ears are on their way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBass Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 What amp are you using? If you have tried other basses with your rig and they sound fine, well its probably not the amp, however, I used to own a MarkBass head; it always sounded like it had a blanket over it, even when using bridge pups. I sold it and went through a few different manufacturers heads and settled on Gallien Krueger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Why not record a quick sample so people can hear what it actually sounds like and offer advice based on that, rather than a description. A P bass shouldn't sound muffled when stock, so hearing it might help folks help you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 HaHa..... Well, my ears a very definitely on their way out! Which is why even a slight reduction in the upper registers are so important. The Strings are new(ish) GHS Basics (following on from d'addario NYXL's). I think that using TI's and used in the context of playing Blues it would be fine and it could be that my expectations are unrealistic. If I I remember correctly, when it was strung with TI flats it was great ..... until I took it to a Jam Session where the resident bassist was using a Mark Bass Head set up for a very bright SX Jazz Bass. I literally couldn't hear the notes that I might have been playing! Pick-ups - they are stock 1990's Squier Japan - could well be the problem ...... maybe I'll swap them out but the only ones I have "spare" that will fit are SD PB1's - good reminder - I'll do that now. I wanted to put my EMG Geezer Butler's in it but this would require routing as the "pocket" is insufficiently deep. Any suggestions on a decent pickup which isn't too "dark"? Currently using a Genzler Magellan 800 which is certainly not muffling anything. In terms of recording, a) I've never done that so not sure how I'd get a representative tone. b) My ears tell me that clips of basses even on good quality headphones are not really representative and, most of all ........c) without the heavy disquise of lots of drums and crashing guitar NO-ONE would want to hear me playing ANY bass on its own! I'll have a play with strings and pickups this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 I may be kidding myself! I've just swapped (reversed) the white and black wires from the pickup into the Volume Control. Also removed all the grounding wires (Bridge/ Copper shielding). And it seems much better! I've tried reversing the reversal (with no additional ground) and it reverts to muffledness. Very difficult to know whether the change will be as positive through the bass rig .... but I'll reinstate some grounding wires and try it out at rehearsal on Thursday. If this turns out to be the issue I shall be very pleased!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 If you’re using the MG800 make sure the contour control is fully anti clockwise ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 Used the offending article at last night's gig ............. WOW! I believe it is now sorted. It has phenomenal "heft" - if basses can have that, and deserves a bit more TLC to make it a really good bass to play live. (bit of action tweaking, maybe new nut .... etc! Thanks for all the input BCers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said: Used the offending article at last night's gig ............. WOW! I believe it is now sorted. It has phenomenal "heft" - if basses can have that, and deserves a bit more TLC to make it a really good bass to play live. (bit of action tweaking, maybe new nut .... etc! Thanks for all the input BCers. In theory, from what I've read, changing the polarity on a single pickup shouldn't change the sound but if you hear the difference then that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirellithecat Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 Yep that is my understanding too. Maybe is was just a dodgy connection? The alternative is that with sufficient eq- ing I managed to overcome the issue. But whatever I've done it now seems possible to get a great sound from the bass, in contrast to my previous experience 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) I found that high mids are very important if fingerstyle on a PBass It naturally has an abundance of low mids but high mids are needed for clarity As a pick player for me it’s the reverse as the pick brings out the high mids so I back off my mids and boost my bass. The result is a full clear punchy sound. Sounds like you’re on the way improving it. In my attempts I have in the past found the Dimarzio DP122 pickup very good but also very hot so that brings other issues ! Edited October 29, 2023 by BassAdder60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, gjones said: In theory, from what I've read, changing the polarity on a single pickup shouldn't change the sound but if you hear the difference then that's all that matters. That depends, if for example a pickup pole grounding wire has been fused with the pickup coil ground, then it most definitely will. Edited October 29, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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