Looking for advice on gigging amps

[Aygotaygo]

Hi. After years of being a studio based player, I know find myself in 2 bands, and so I’m in need of an amp. For info, one of the bands is a cover/functions band doing all the usual suspects. This band has full PA so I’ll be going DI with them. The other band is an Americana type band ( 2 x guitars, drummer and singer), and I’ll be using back line only.

 

I’ve read a lot of threads about the watts needed for live gigs, some of which say 100 watts is enough, others saying 500 watts is the minimum. I’m confused!
 

I’ve been thinking about the following amps as contenders:

Peavey Max 150

Ashdown Studio 15

Hartke Kickback KB12

Various Fender Rumbles

 

What I’d like advice on is: how many watts is enough, and are any of my shortlist worth their place on stage?

 

For context, I’m only looking at light combos as I’m old and weak…😊

 

Thanks in advance 👍

[NHM]

the Fender Rumble 100 will tick your box; it's perfect for a gig monitor and practice amp at home. It has a great range of tones, it's lightweight and the reliability seems to be excellent.

[PaulWarning]

31 minutes ago, NHM said:

the Fender Rumble 100 will tick your box; it's perfect for a gig monitor and practice amp at home. It has a great range of tones, it's lightweight and the reliability seems to be excellent.

yes but perhaps not quite powerful enough for back line only gigs, I'd go for the 500 watt version, plenty of head room then

[bertbass]

It depends.  Are you thinking combos or head and cabinet?  If you wants to go with valves, a 100 watts will be plenty.  Transistors, 300 watts will be enough.  If you want class d then at least 500 watts.  I know people will come along and say a watt is a watt but real world experience says different.

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, Aygotaygo said:

What I’d like advice on is: how many watts is enough, and are any of my shortlist worth their place on stage?

 

The reason that reading about watts is a bit confusing is because watts don't correlate exactly with output volume; it depends on so many factors which can't be distilled down to that one metric.  It's like asking if a 2L car is faster than a 1.6L.

 

The safe bet is the Rumble 500 which is in the sweetspot of being generally highly recommended, definitely loud enough, not too heavy, and good sounding.  Another combo in this category but not on your shortlist is the Markbass CMD 121P.

 

Some people do gig with the smaller Rumble 100 - it's impossible to know until you try it with your particular bands and venues though if it will be loud enough.

 

[Aygotaygo]

Thanks to all for your respective inputs - it’s helping a lot. I’m definitely looking at combos, the lighter the better, and I find myself thinking the Ashdown Studio 15 ticks every box on paper at least. But as there are very few gigs played on paper, does anyone have real world experience of the Studio 15?

[NHM]

1 hour ago, NHM said:

the Fender Rumble 100 will tick your box; it's perfect for a gig monitor and practice amp at home. It has a great range of tones, it's lightweight and the reliability seems to be excellent.

I missed the bit about the Americana band - go for the Rumble 500. I've got one, it is a brilliant combo.

[gjones]

If I've learned anything over the 40 years I've been playing in bands it's, you can never go too loud, or too light. If you can get both in an easily transportable box then you've hit the jackpot.

 

Fender Rumble 500 V3, or Markbass 121 CMD P are the combos I'd go for, they're both loud and light.

 

I own the Markbass shown above and it can mix it with a loud drummer. I have friend who owns a Fender Rumble 500 and it can also go very loud and is ridiculously light.

 

Both can be bought for around £350/£400 secondhand.

[Sibob]

I would say, unless you're playing acoustic gigs, 500watts is the minimum you'd want. Bear in mind that you usually don't NEED 500 watts, but it's way better to have headroom spare (ie watts that you don't need) than ragging a 100watt amp to its limit at every gig. 

Markbass are a safe bet, as are the Fender Rumbles.

 

A note on combos though, let's take the Fender Rumble 500 as an example. The amp is rated at 500watts at 4ohms (two speakers/cabs), the combo is of course only one speaker/cab (ie 8ohms) and the amp is rated at 350watts at 8ohms. All this to say that you won't be getting 500watts out of the Fender Rumble 500 combo until you plug in an extension cab. 

Without having done any research, it would stand to reason that combos that don't allow for an extension cab will advertise the actual wattage you'll have access to (ie the amps 8ohm rating)....it would be pretty unforgivable (and probably illegal actually) to advertise the 4ohm wattage of the amp and not be able to utilise it.

 

Si

[nilorius]

I would advise Aguilar - tone hammer series. 350w; 500w and 700w models. More like 350 or 500 as loud as You think your bands will be. Very small and light - perfect for messing around a lot. Quality is superb. I own 500 with 2 x sl12 and use my th500 always for recording, too. Finally, You will need to pay money for that. Best regards and good luck !

[jezzaboy]

The Rumble 500`s are about 350 watts on their own, to get the full 500 you need to add another 8 ohms cab. But having said that, I gigged the 500 combo on it`s on for a few months and it was loud enough for pubs/clubs. (In other words, what Sibob wrote above! )

 

The Ashdown studio 15 is 300 watts but I would take that with a pinch of salt as someone on here bought an Ashdown and it only had something like a 180 watt speaker fitted and I don`t think you can add another cab? I would get another Rumble 500 in a heart beat if I was looking for a light, loud combo that won`t break the bank.

Edited September 26, 2023 by jezzaboy

[Aygotaygo]

Really helpful (and informative!) replies which have given me a lot to think about. It ain’t easy this bass player thing, is it?
 

one other option I’ve looked at today is the Fender Rumble 800, not the Stage one. It’s lighter, packs more wattage, and appears to be available for only about £40 more than the 500 at DV247.  Makes me wonder why. Is it a lemon of an amp?

[tauzero]

If you really want lightweight, there's the GR Bass AT500 Cube or AT800 Cube, under 10kg for a 500W combo which in the case of the AT800 can have a further 8 ohm cab added for the full 800W.

[knirirr]

6 hours ago, Aygotaygo said:

Thanks to all for your respective inputs - it’s helping a lot. I’m definitely looking at combos, the lighter the better,

 

It's probably not what you're after, but I hope you don't mind me mentioning this just in case.

When I bought an amp for gigs I was looking for exactly the same thing; a light combo. This search resulted in buying an Orange Terror bass with 1x12" cab instead. The cab is about 12kg so a little under half the weight of the Trace Elliot combo I sold on here, and it is quite capable of playing jazz/fusion gigs in pubs or small beer festivals. I've never felt the need to get a second cab for it.

Now, I'd be tempted to by a small solid state head to go with that cab and save even more weight.

[Downunderwonder]

100w Rumble is way louder than it looks it could possibly be. If your Americana outfit is no rowdier than an 18 piece jazz orchestra you're good.

[Hellzero]

I own a GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon Combo 800 plus its GR Bass AeroTech Full Carbon 112+ Extension Cabinet, it's the lightest (14.3 kilos for the both of them) powerful (full 800 Watts) rig you'll find these days with excellent faithful sound reproduction, but it's quite expensive.

 

There is an excellent combo in the ads now, at very attractive price, a Markbass Alain Caron Signature Combo 121 Lite, it's quite light (16.3 kilos) and very powerful (500 Watts to the 12" and 100 or 300 Watts to the "tweeter" depending on the version) and you'll get the full power out of this bi-amped combo as there's no extension possibility.

 

To me it's better sounding than the follower named Alain Caron Signature K1.

 

Link to the specs: https://www.markbass.it/product/combo-121-lite-alain-caron/

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Hellzero
Link added

[MichaelDean]

Just to add in, it might be worth considering getting a sack truck to help schlep anything you buy. It'd mean less actual carrying if there aren't loads of stairs to content with. I find it really helpful if I've got a bit of a way to go from the car to the venue. 

 

It has also been really useful to just own a sack truck. It's been used when white goods have been replaced - much easier to move them around on wheels! I think mine was an Aldi special buy a few years ago, but it's rated to 100kg so more than capable. It's a folding one too, so it isn't massive to store. 

[Stub Mandrel]

It depends on the venues you expect to play. If you are genuinely backline only and expect to play medium to large pubs or clubs you'll probably need more than 100W unless it's a very gentle band.

 

That said, investing in efficient, quality speakers (whether in a combo or separates) can make as much of a difference as multiplying your amp power by ten.

 

My backup TE Elf at 250W is more than loud enough through my 4-ohm GR Bass AT212, but struggles to keep up with a drumkit through my teeny 8-ohm Phil Jones C2.

[Aygotaygo]

43 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

100w Rumble is way louder than it looks it could possibly be. If your Americana outfit is no rowdier than an 18 piece jazz orchestra you're good.

We’re probably not even as loud as a three piece jazz outfit!

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Aygotaygo said:

We’re probably not even as loud as a three piece jazz outfit!

There's three piece jazz outfits and three piece jazz outfits all not the same, but sounds promising.

 

Ime the festival backline I thought must have been DI to the front system turned out to be doing it all by itself when I took the stage. Gobsmacked.

[BassAdder60]

I wouldn’t get an amp less than 300w ideally 500w or larger for playing gigs 

 

There are many low cost mid wattage amps that would be worth considering and get a head and separate cab ( far more flexible )

Some low cost contenders are Peavey and Laney 

The Orange Little Bass Thing is a lovely amp for sensible money

Add a decent 1x15 or 2 x 10 cab and you’re set 

[Phil Starr]

17 hours ago, Aygotaygo said:

I’ve read a lot of threads about the watts needed for live gigs, some of which say 100 watts is enough, others saying 500 watts is the minimum. I’m confused

It can be. Basically though don’t worry about it because wattage is only part of the story. Sound is usually measured in decibels and some speakers make more sound for each watt than others. The other thing is that our ears are cleverly designed to cover sounds from the tiniest whisper to incredible volume by squashing down the loudest sounds. Ten times the power is needed to double the sound. A 500W amp is only a little louder than a 300W amp. Going from 100 to 400W sounds like a big step but is only 6db. A bass speaker might give anything from 90db to 102db or more so 100W into an efficient speaker might be louder than 500W into a less efficient one. Then the advertised power is often a lie so you’ve little chance of buying the right amp based upon power alone.

 

Generally speaking though 300W through most bass speakers will cover most gigs.

[Lozz196]

From the amps mentioned I`ve had the Markbass CMD121P and for such a little amp it had plenty of power, I used it in a band with drums, 2 basses, 3 gtrs, keyboards & 2 lead vox, it never lacked in regular pub-sized venues.

 

Having heard the Fender Rumble 500 combo in use it`s an amp I`d also check out, very nice full rich sound.

[xgsjx]

Cmon guys. Everybody knows he’s gonna need a 2000w valve head into an 8x10 fridge.

 

 

 

😹

[Rodders]

The only thing I would add to this (apologies if it has already been mentioned) is find a way of raising whatever combo or head and cab you go for off of the floor/point it at your ears whether that be with a stand, leaning it back somehow, a milk crate whatever. It may help keep the wattage, overall volume and cost down. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Rodders
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