Looking for advice on gigging amps

[Aygotaygo]

9 minutes ago, Rodders said:

The only thing I would add to this (apologies if it has already been mentioned) is find a way of raising whatever combo or head and cab you go for off of the floor/point it at your ears whether that be with a stand, leaning it back somehow, a milk crate whatever. It may help keep the wattage, overall volume and cost down. 

With that in mind, I’ve been leaning toward the Peavey Max 150 because it has a tilted baffle. Just not absolutely sure that 150 watts will be enough, but as has already pointed out, it’s not just about watts.

[xgsjx]

4 minutes ago, Aygotaygo said:

With that in mind, I’ve been leaning toward the Peavey Max 150 because it has a tilted baffle. Just not absolutely sure that 150 watts will be enough, but as has already pointed out, it’s not just about watts.

See if you can find the SPL data for it. It’ll show as dB per Metre. 

[asingardenof]

I have an Ashdown ABM-600-EVO IV head, and while it's fantastic, at 600W it's more than I'll probably ever need, though the extra headroom is nice to have. I have recently been using a Trace Elliot Elf for smaller (pub) gigs and I haven't gotten above halfway on the volume knob with 200W @ 4 ohms. Obviously if you're going for the head/cab separates option some of this will also depend what cab you have.

Edited September 27, 2023 by asingardenof
Fixed typos

[asingardenof]

3 hours ago, Rodders said:

The only thing I would add to this (apologies if it has already been mentioned) is find a way of raising whatever combo or head and cab you go for off of the floor/point it at your ears whether that be with a stand, leaning it back somehow, a milk crate whatever. It may help keep the wattage, overall volume and cost down. 

Or make sure your cab has good dispersion as that'll mean less faff.

[BassAdder60]

10 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

I have an Ashdown ABM-600-EVO IV head, and while it's fantastic, at 600W it's more than I'll probably ever need, though the extra headroom is nice to have. I have recently been using a Trace Elliot Elf smaller (pub) gigs and I've haven't gotten above halfway on the volume knob with 200W @ 4 ohms. Obviously if you're going for the head/cab separates option some of this will also depend what cab you have.

I agree with this and have the same amps 

 

The TE Elf into a good 4 ohm cab is easily gig worthy and sounds good too. 
 

 

[Aygotaygo]

After doing a bit more research (it never ends!), I'm tempted by the Trace Elliot Elf and 1x10 cab.

 

Looks giggable to me. Does anyone have any experience of this setup?

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, Aygotaygo said:

After doing a bit more research (it never ends!), I'm tempted by the Trace Elliot Elf and 1x10 cab.

 

Looks giggable to me. Does anyone have any experience of this setup?

You could always swap the cab for something more capable or add another if it turned out to be just shy.

 

Elf power is handy enough if you want to get a bit rowdy with a bigger cab. I wouldn't expect too much out a single 110 though.

 

300w is a thermal rating. It doesn't tell you how much low end will come out before it dies. It doesn't tell you how much noise it makes per watt either.

 

Worth a shot if you can handle winding up needing two of them.

 

There was a busted Markbass combo in the classifieds for you but I think it may have shifted.

[barkin]

9 hours ago, xgsjx said:

See if you can find the SPL data for it. It’ll show as dB per Metre. 

More likely dB per Watt, at 1 meter... 

[nekomatic]

10 hours ago, barkin said:

More likely dB per Watt, at 1 meter... 

 

dB for a 1 watt input measured at a distance of 1 metre, relative to a level that’s agreed to be the threshold of normal hearing. (dBm is used in measuring low-level electrical signals and is relative to a signal that produces 1 milliwatt into 600 ohms.)
 

Don’t worry, I had to look that up, I didn’t know it all by heart. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by nekomatic
first version was rubbish

[Jack]

On 26/09/2023 at 18:39, Aygotaygo said:

Really helpful (and informative!) replies which have given me a lot to think about. It ain’t easy this bass player thing, is it?
 

one other option I’ve looked at today is the Fender Rumble 800, not the Stage one. It’s lighter, packs more wattage, and appears to be available for only about £40 more than the 500 at DV247.  Makes me wonder why. Is it a lemon of an amp?

The Stage one is the last proper amp I owned and I can tell you it's a wonderful thing, they're the same as each other apart from the preamp. I was a little worried about a mass-brand combo after some of the esoteric things I've had in the past and but I only bought it for emergency 'you can't play ampless' gigs so I figured it would about do. Honestly it was a peach and I could play every gig I've ever played with it, by the time that starts running out of steam you're well in to 'full pa for the whole band' gigs.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Jack

[xgsjx]

12 hours ago, barkin said:

More likely dB per Watt, at 1 meter... 

Yes, that’s how it’s measured, but often just written as dB/m. 

[asingardenof]

14 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

You could always swap the cab for something more capable or add another if it turned out to be just shy.

I can definitely recommend pairing it with a Barefaced cab, either a One10 or a Two10 (I do the latter), and I believe others in these 'ere parts do the same.

[Ed_S]

Personally I found the Elf to be pleasant in tone but lacking in power through a pair of One10s. I know a lot of people say they can gig with it, and absolutely fair play to them if it works in the context of their band, but it couldn't get loud enough for my purposes.

 

Of the other amps mentioned, I've used Markbass CMD121p and Fender Rumble 500 combos and found both to be completely capable.

[Norris]

Many have suggested the Fender Rumble v3 500 combo. I have had one for several years now and have never found it lacking in any situation.

 

It does clean. It does gritty. It's cheap as chips. It's a one hand lift.

 

Tbh I blummin love it

[Dan Dare]

A lot of useful advice above. I would urge you not to buy on recommendation alone. Unless it's really impossible, visit a shop or two and try some gear out. If you can, borrow equipment from a few friends and see how it performs in real world situations. You could even hire a few things and try them at gigs,

 

Wattage is a very approximate measure of what an amp can deliver. It's often measured at one metre into a nominal impedance (as explained above), but that's not the full story. Speaker efficiency (how much sound a particular speaker will produce for a given input power) and impedance affect how much volume an amp and speaker combination will produce. Manufacturers usually measure wattage at a single frequency such as 1khz. They also measure over a few milliseconds (which is different from the real world demands that will be placed on an amp) as well as at the lowest impedance that an amp will work safely into, which inflates the figure. Once you ask an amp to process a complex musical signal, rather than a single frequency test tone, things change again. Really, wattage is pretty meaningless other than as a rough approximation. However, it's used as finding an alternative measure is difficult.

 

The Rumbles are a safe, reasonably priced recommendation if you don't want to get too deeply into it and just buy something you can be sure will do the job. I find them a little bland, personally, but I'm an Aguilar user.

 

I think the Elf plus a 1x10 you suggest might not be enough for your needs. I'd look at 2x10 as a minimum if you're playing with a drummer, unless you're doing jazz gigs in wine bars. Watts are cheap these days, so buy something that's more powerful than you think you might need. 500 may seem a lot, but in reality, a 500w amp will only be around 10% louder than a 200w one. You can always turn a powerful amp down, but you can't turn a low powered amp up when/if it runs out of steam.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Dan Dare

[Woodinblack]

I would say 100W amp is fine in a lot of places, until you find somewhere where it isn't, but then there is no where you can go and you can't turn up more. I gigged with a 250 TC combo for a while in a not that loud trio, but wouldn't really want to go out with less than that. 

I did gig for a bit with 100W valve amp, and it was fine in that it was always loud enough, but not if you wanted clean at high volume.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Amp- power. Plenty of it. It's better to turn a 500w amp down than run a 100watter flat-out all night. Weight may also be a consideration if you've far too carry it.

 

Cabinet- Sensitivity ( dB/W at 1m. Usually taken at 1kHz IIRC)

Basically,  the more the better.  It'll go louder easier. 

Power handling.  Can it take what your amp of choice can dish out?

Impedance- might you want to add another cab? Will the amp drive two?

Size and weight are considerations for transportation. 

 

Me? I've a 31kg cabinet that'll take 1000w. It's a 4Ohm unit, so maximises what I can get from....

A 450w transistor class A/B head which lives in a 2u case.

Fits in the car with the seats down,  and the cab is a one-man lift. 

I strap it all to a dolly board,  and it's a single trip from car to rehearsal room or venue. 

 

It was all purchased s/h on this forum. The whole lot Inc. cases, covers and cables cost <£500.

 

P.S. I use this at home for practice,  too. It still works at lower volumes 🙃

Edited October 1, 2023 by Lfalex v1.1

[nilorius]

9 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Amp- power. Plenty of it. It's better to turn a 500w amp down than run a 100watter flat-out all night. Weight may also be a consideration if you've far too carry it.

 

Cabinet- Sensitivity ( dB/W at 1m. Usually taken at 1kHz IIRC)

Basically,  the more the better.  It'll go louder easier. 

Power handling.  Can it take what your amp of choice can dish out?

Impedance- might you want to add another cab? Will the amp drive two?

Size and weight are considerations for transportation. 

 

Me? I've a 31kg cabinet that'll take 1000w. It's a 4Ohm unit, so maximises what I can get from....

A 450w transistor class A/B head which lives in a 2u case.

Fits in the car with the seats down,  and the cab is a one-man lift. 

I strap it all to a dolly board,  and it's a single trip from car to rehearsal room or venue. 

 

P.S. I use this at home for practice,  too. It still works at lower volumes 🙃

Sounds nice, for everyone !!!😜

[xgsjx]

I agree that it’s better to have a more powerful rig.  Though if you’re struggling for volume with the 100w amp, you can add another cab of the same & that’ll most likely be plenty of dB. 
Most valve amps are 200w at most (there are some exceptions). Valve watts are not any different from SS ones. 

[BassAdder60]

53 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I agree that it’s better to have a more powerful rig.  Though if you’re struggling for volume with the 100w amp, you can add another cab of the same & that’ll most likely be plenty of dB. 
Most valve amps are 200w at most (there are some exceptions). Valve watts are not any different from SS ones. 

I’ve gigged with 100w all valve amps and plenty loud enough 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, BassAdder60 said:

I’ve gigged with 100w all valve amps and plenty loud enough 

 

I have gigged with 100W all valve watts and some places they are loud enough, and some places they aren't if you want clean.

[chris_b]

If you are making decisions in the dark, about an environment you hardly know, the best solution is to be as flexible as possible. 

 

Buy an amp and separate cab.

 

Watts are cheap. Too many is never a problem, but too few will always ruin the gig. If you think you want 100 watts, get 200, even 300 watts because you will sound pretty bad if you buy a 100 watt amp and find you need to use 100 watts. You need clean headroom for the best bass sound, so you will sound much better using 100 watts from a 300 watt amp. I used to play in a duo with a miked up acoustic guitarist. I used a 500 watt amp and a good 112. IME a 500 watt amp with the volume on 3 sounds much better than a 100 watt amp with the volume on 9.

 

It looks to me like you are totally underestimating your requirements. If I'm wrong, that's great, but if I'm right you won't sound good on gigs and will be trying to buy a larger rig in no time. A small low powered combo could be an expensive mistake. An amp and cab enables you to replace/upgrade each separately. Lets you add another cab or use a different cab.

[asingardenof]

7 hours ago, chris_b said:

If you are making decisions in the dark, about an environment you hardly know, the best solution is to be as flexible as possible. 

 

Buy an amp and separate cab.

 

Watts are cheap. Too many is never a problem, but too few will always ruin the gig. If you think you want 100 watts, get 200, even 300 watts because you will sound pretty bad if you buy a 100 watt amp and find you need to use 100 watts. You need clean headroom for the best bass sound, so you will sound much better using 100 watts from a 300 watt amp. I used to play in a duo with a miked up acoustic guitarist. I used a 500 watt amp and a good 112. IME a 500 watt amp with the volume on 3 sounds much better than a 100 watt amp with the volume on 9.

 

It looks to me like you are totally underestimating your requirements. If I'm wrong, that's great, but if I'm right you won't sound good on gigs and will be trying to buy a larger rig in no time. A small low powered combo could be an expensive mistake. An amp and cab enables you to replace/upgrade each separately. Lets you add another cab or use a different cab.

Yep, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

[41Hz]

Yep 500W minimum in class d for me, though that’s a rock band with 2 loud guitarists. Maybe less watts with an analog amp.

 

I used to have a rumble 500 combo and it’s a great amp, but preferred the tone of the GK mb212 I replaced it with.

 

Still use my GK combo a fair bit but always feels a bit safer taking a separate cab + amp, plus small backup class d.

[Stub Mandrel]

Went to Denmark Street yesterday and my brother was going to buy something!

 

He has my ancient Laney ProBass 150W head, and it's starting to show its age (about 40 years) and an Ampeg Portaflex 1x15.

 

He's unlikely to play with anything louder than a cajon but wanted to be future proofed. He only tried out one amp (through a very nice Aquilar 1x10) and walked out with an Elf, which I reckon sets him up nicely as he can always add another cab to have a rig that would play virtually any venue.