HPF thoughts ?

[Franticsmurf]

After posting here, I went in search of the Sine and ordered one. It arrived this morning. I'm impressed with the delivery. It's hard to judge the effect it has without going quite loud, but there does seem to be a subtle tightness when it's set to about 35hz. Sweeping the frequency higher creates a more pronounced effect, as you would expect. There is a mild pop when the foot switch is engaged. I'm not too worried about that as it will be an always on effect on my board. 

[Matt P]

i'm using the Vong HPF's (ordered as kits and are very easy to put together if you're ok soldering), I don't need the ability to switch them so they're just set and forget.

 

bought the first one for my church board then the second for my band board. can't fault them.

 

I would have bought Thumpinators but couldn't afford the new price at the time and any that pop up secondhand sell so quickly that i miss them. i think the pair of Vong ones cost about what a used thumpinator sells for.

 

Matt

[dmccombe7]

39 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

After posting here, I went in search of the Sine and ordered one. It arrived this morning. I'm impressed with the delivery. It's hard to judge the effect it has without going quite loud, but there does seem to be a subtle tightness when it's set to about 35hz. Sweeping the frequency higher creates a more pronounced effect, as you would expect. There is a mild pop when the foot switch is engaged. I'm not too worried about that as it will be an always on effect on my board. 

You must have got the only one in stock as there's now a week delay when ordering. I'll see how i get on at tomorrow nights gig and take it from there.

If your one hadn't disappeared from ebay last night i would probably have just bought it anyways. 

Keep us posted on what you think of it in a band situation.

Dave

[SuperSeagull]

I have a Rafferty which I bought used on here. I like the subtle tightening up of a boomy bottom end - but the footprint and layout don't work so well on my board so may put up for sale and get one of those Sine ones.

[Franticsmurf]

26 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

You must have got the only one in stock as there's now a week delay when ordering. I'll see how i get on at tomorrow nights gig and take it from there.

If your one hadn't disappeared from ebay last night i would probably have just bought it anyways. 

Keep us posted on what you think of it in a band situation.

Dave

Unfortunately I have no gig or rehearsal booked for about a week. But I'll report back when I can. The neighbours are away, so I may crank up at home tomorrow. 😀 It's a lovely looking unit, well built and solid, the pot is smooth and silent. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

I can't speak for any of those two units, but I have the adjustable HPF feature related the the IR cab sim of my NUX Melvin Lee Davis Bass Preamp + DI pedal set to 40Hz (mind I also boost the Bass control of the amp simulation coming before the IR cab sim function, which got a center frequency of 40Hz, but with a low Q/high bandwidth affected around it, as well), and that then going into my ART Tube MP Project Series tube preamp and DI, with its, fixed at 40Hz, HPF engaged, and beside filtering out boomyness and allowing for the poweramp and speaker to work more efficiently, it also really tightens up my low end, making my tone clearer and more punchy.  

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Downunderwonder]

On 27/09/2023 at 22:20, fretmeister said:

I've got a Thumpinator but I'm going to get the Sine FX one when I can. I really like the Thumpinator but sometimes I'd like to be able to set the frequency.

Some rooms really bloom / boom all the way to 80hz or more. Tunable HPF working in tandem with bass knob conquers all.

 

One of my rehearsal rooms is gloriously warm and bassy to the extreme so needs a massive trim of everything to bring it back to just "CHOICE!". Then plug in at a jam in a regular room and it's a sorry scrawny mess, oops.  More knobs ftw.

[Franticsmurf]

 

 

On 28/09/2023 at 14:00, dmccombe7 said:

You must have got the only one in stock as there's now a week delay when ordering. I'll see how i get on at tomorrow nights gig and take it from there.

If your one hadn't disappeared from ebay last night i would probably have just bought it anyways. 

Keep us posted on what you think of it in a band situation.

Dave

I tried the Sine at rehearsals tonight. It was last in line going in to a TCE BAM200 into a bass cab, the details of which I am not sure but a 15" speaker. The Sine was set to cut 30hz (the lowest setting). There was definitely a difference with it engaged. Very subtle but it tightened the sound up. The recording of the session has a more defined bass guitar sound (all other factors - mic position, recording levels etc - being equal). The master volume on the amp was slightly lower than usual. A non-scientific review, I know, but enough for me to be placing this as a permanent 'always on' pedal on the board. 

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

 

 

I tried the Sine at rehearsals tonight. It was last in line going in to a TCE BAM200 into a bass cab, the details of which I am not sure but a 15" speaker. The Sine was set to cut 30hz (the lowest setting). There was definitely a difference with it engaged. Very subtle but it tightened the sound up. The recording of the session has a more defined bass guitar sound (all other factors - mic position, recording levels etc - being equal). The master volume on the amp was slightly lower than usual. A non-scientific review, I know, but enough for me to be placing this as a permanent 'always on' pedal on the board. 

Thanks for the feedback on it and let us know how it fairs on a gig situation to see if you notice it.

I checked with Ampeg and they don't have in-built HPF on the SVT7 so it looks like i might eventually go for one too. I might check with Mesa to see if the Subway cabs have in-built HPF on them. I'm sure i read that somewhere.

Dave

[StingRayBoy42]

I am a completely unscientific idiot, so feel free to take my opinion with a pinch of salt.

I have a Thumpinator and I love it. Like a few have said, it's quite subtle but it definitely tightens up the sound., like your amp isn't working as hard so you get more out of it sort of thing.

I've used it with a few different Basses, amps and bands and it sounds good in all settings. Some benefit more than others, but you can tell it's there.

I'm not sure you *need* one, but IMHO it's worth having.

Broughtons and Thumpinators come up on here from time to time and they never hang around for long, so I'm clearly not on my own, and if you decide you don't like/need it, someone will have it off you.

[Downunderwonder]

58 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Mesa

Got on the tunable HPF train with the amps.

 

Afaik the last amps sold without a subsonic filter were the vintage SWRs.

 

It's a few cents worth of parts to HPF the signal going to the power stage. Cf big expensive parts to HPF the speaker signal.

[dmccombe7]

42 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Got on the tunable HPF train with the amps.

 

Afaik the last amps sold without a subsonic filter were the vintage SWRs.

 

It's a few cents worth of parts to HPF the signal going to the power stage. Cf big expensive parts to HPF the speaker signal.

Ampeg replied fairly quickly and said my SVT7 did not have an HPF filter ?

I'm assuming they asked a techy type person and not just some wee girl in the office but you never know.

Dave

Edited October 5, 2023 by dmccombe7

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Ampeg replied fairly quickly and said my SVT7 did not have an HPF filter ?

I'm assuming they asked a techy type person and not just some wee girl in the office but you never know.

Dave

 

Or not some wee lad in the office, either, eh Dave?😉

[choob.squeemer]

Very interesting read - I use a Genz Benz shuttle 9.2  mostly now and just found out 

on another thread here that it has a filter set to 30 hz  

 

this explains a lot , usually I like the low shape switched in 

but it never gets boomy - one thing I did find is that I like 

a valve that is very balanced on either side - the ones they 

usually sell for the phase inverter - it seems to make Fi a bit Hi er 

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Ampeg replied fairly quickly and said my SVT7 did not have an HPF filter ?

I'm assuming they asked a techy type person and not just some wee girl in the office but you never know.

Dave

When inbuilt it is usually called a rumble filter or subsonic filter, just a HPF by a different name. If you are TC it is robustly ignored in all literature as it is very much higher than everyone else's non adjusting HPF.

 

Afaik Genzler, Mesa, and one or two very boutique brands chocka with onboard processing, are the only ones with adjustable HPF.

 

If you can push your string and watch the speaker move there is no filter.

[Low Places]

I use the Broughton Always On HPF. Love it for many of the reasons already mentioned. Tame boom, and protect my speaker.

 

 

 

[Franticsmurf]

I found this in another thread on Basschat:

 

The BAM 200 doesn't have an HPF.

[Downunderwonder]

13 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

I found this in another thread on Basschat:

 

The BAM 200 doesn't have an HPF.

Au contrair, they are all taking a response dive below 100hz. That doesn't happen by accident. An amp left to its own devices puts out basically a flat response to whatever comes along.

 

The job of a preamp is to give it some character by messing with the signal that goes to the power stage.

 

Those plots are from a notionally flat set of pink noise being sent to the preamp to measure the relative response in the speaker signal.

 

 

[dmccombe7]

9 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Or not some wee lad in the office, either, eh Dave?😉

That was very un-PC of me there. My apologies for that. 

Dave

[Al Krow]

20 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

That was very un-PC of me there. My apologies for that. 

Dave

 

Cheers buddy - that's gracious of you. It's so easy to slip into casual sexism [or whatever...ism] without realising we're doing it! 

 

Back to HPF. I've actually got a decent ability to HPF on both our desk (100hz cut off) and via patches on my Zoom multifx which has a variable HPF sim, so no real need for something additional, although I had a Thumpinator on my home board for years. There's also the very simple option of cutting the bass EQ on your bass preamp or amp a touch?

 

If I was getting another HPF pedal the Sine HPF mentioned earlier looks very capable and decent value.

 

I guess the trick is to balance eliminating low end crud and getting a tight non-boomy sound without the bass sounding anaemic in the mix.

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

guess the trick is to balance eliminating low end crud and getting a tight non-boomy sound without the bass sounding anaemic in the mix.

HPF frees the bass knob to do exactly that.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

HPF frees the bass knob to do exactly that.

 

Yup. This is so well demonstrated when using Octave pedals.

 

Copying Dusty Hill's approach I run a Thumpinator immediately after my OC-5. The Thumpinator cuts off everything lower than about a low B on a 5 string so I don't get any flub when playing E-A, and I don't have to turn it off when playing on the E string. 

[Rodders]

I use a Thumpinator, have done for a couple of years but looking at an adjustable one as I'm still having to roll off the bass on the amp (4 string P Bass with flats), to be clear in a mix. 

Hoping the Fishman Platinum Stage Pro will solve that and also give me some better EQ adjustment.

[Muzz]

On 27/09/2023 at 10:00, Japhet said:

I use a Micro Thumpinator. What is really noticeable is that I do a few gigs with a Fender Rumble 100. The HPF focusses all the power where you want it and stops the drivers from getting an absolute battering for no reason. As a result I get loads of volume out of this little amp without driver distortion or flappiness. I also use it with bigger setups to good effect. 

I use a Rumble 100 (with a better driver in it, admittedly), and use the Helix Stomp as a HPF to cut out all the waffle below about 50...same into the PA, too...I don't like sub-bass...

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

 

Yup. This is so well demonstrated when using Octave pedals.

 

Copying Dusty Hill's approach I run a Thumpinator immediately after my OC-5. The Thumpinator cuts off everything lower than about a low B on a 5 string so I don't get any flub when playing E-A, and I don't have to turn it off when playing on the E string. 

 

Apologies for the thread digress, but was interested in your comment - I used to be a massive fan of using octave pedals, but find that a 5 string largely eliminates the need in a band mix as you can often play an octave down anyway compared to a 4 string particularly for songs in keys of B, C, D and Eb. 

 

If you're playing in the low E string to A string range then the octave down is giving you a fundamental at 20hz to 30hz, which you're barely going to hear. The second harmonic from the octaver pedal is then just doubling your existing fundamental (which you've already got). I find even with HPF engaged it's not a great sound in the mix - pleasant enough when solo'd at home for sure - but you're obviously finding it works well with your set up and band? I've literally just taken my OC-5 off my board this past week! 😊

Edited October 6, 2023 by Al Krow