Darkglass amplifiers - discussion thereof.

[NancyJohnson]

I've been running a Darkglass AO900 (into a pair of DG 1x12s) for about two years.  Absolutely no issues with headroom, weight, portability, although I would say it took some time to actually form any kind of bond with it and more than any amplifier I've owned previously, it seems to respond very differently to anything I plug into it (which is a bit of a b*llache).  It's very aggressive and I'll admit that the Alpha/Omega overdrive voicings are difficult to keep under control.  I'll admit I love what Darkglass are doing generally.

 

Now then, questions.  Should funds allow, I'm thinking of moving the AO900 and going with a Microtubes X900 or Exponent, from the online content I've watched (although very stylised) probably the X900 may suit me better.  I'd appreciate if there's any X900 users here that could offer a bit of honest input.  Desired tone for me is kind of Geddy Lee clank; the AO900 isn't delivering that, and I'm wondering whether the X900 will deliver something more controllable.  I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison.

 

Anyone?

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

I’ve been using the Microtubes 900 v2 since its release and I couldn’t be more pleased with it. I had the original 900 before it, which was also a good amp.

I’m not sure swapping what you already have to the X900 is going to give you what you want though.

I’d be interested to hear the results of a side by side if you could get it arranged.

[NancyJohnson]

1 hour ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I’ve been using the Microtubes 900 v2 since its release and I couldn’t be more pleased with it. I had the original 900 before it, which was also a good amp.

I’m not sure swapping what you already have to the X900 is going to give you what you want though.

I’d be interested to hear the results of a side by side if you could get it arranged.

 

I think I need some dirt, it's a fundamental factor in the tone I'm chasing.  I ran a Sansamp RBI into a poweramp for years, the only reason for downgrading was that I was just sick of the weight of everything!  If Tech21 rolled out an RBI head (like the old VT Bass), I'd be in.

[fretmeister]

The AO type pedals and amps are far closer to fuzz than clank.

 

I used to get a good clank out of a V1 MT900 so I see no reason why the V2 wouldn't do it. I have not tried the X series stuff, but the drive section seems to be voiced a lot more similar to the B*K series than the AO.

 

Why not buy a X7 pedal and run it into the FX loop on your AO900? Or straight in the front with no drive on the amp? That would be a lot cheaper.

Or have a good audition of the X7 to see if the X series will do it - you can always return the pedal after trying it out.

[NancyJohnson]

3 hours ago, fretmeister said:

The AO type pedals and amps are far closer to fuzz than clank.

 

I used to get a good clank out of a V1 MT900 so I see no reason why the V2 wouldn't do it. I have not tried the X series stuff, but the drive section seems to be voiced a lot more similar to the B*K series than the AO.

 

Why not buy a X7 pedal and run it into the FX loop on your AO900? Or straight in the front with no drive on the amp? That would be a lot cheaper.

Or have a good audition of the X7 to see if the X series will do it - you can always return the pedal after trying it out.

 

I've got Ged2112 DI and a the Dug Pinnick stomps, have tried both into the effects return (with limited success tbh).  I suppose I'm not really interested in throwing ££ at more hardware.  Looking for a one box solution.

[fretmeister]

Order the amp and then use the return period to give it a proper run?

[Wolverinebass]

I've got the X7 Ultra pedal. On paper it should be better than the Dug pedal due to the variable crossover. It's not. It's immensely fiddly and the distortion sound is wrong. Worse still, there's a small touch of fuzz on the low end of the clean channel! I could barely get a sound I liked out of it.

 

I attribute this to the fact that Darkglass make products for 5 string players for the most part which is why there is always that tiny smidgeon of fuzz on the low end. After all, you'll need it in drop A. Play in C# standard or higher and not only do you not need it, you don't want it.

 

Running the pedal at 24v does alleviate it slightly, but I'd imagine the amp wouldn't work the same way.

[robiredale]

I've got an AO900 and love it. Have also had all flavours of Darkglass distortion (X, MT and AO) in various pedal formats. 

 

My take is that the reality of Darkglass stuff is that there is a very large overlap between the different flavours of distortion. My preference is AO because its got an organic quality to me that's missing from the others, and a less extreme "baked in" EQ (though I do my own EQ in addition to what Darkglass provides - see below). AO sits better in a band situation for me. I found the MT to have less presence in a band situation without really pushing the mids (which gives this "honky" quality to me), and the X (whilst the solution I thought I wanted on paper) I could never get to sound very "natural". That said it is an extremely powerful tool, and I love the Neural DSP plugin that emulates it (Parallax). That's my go-to for recording bass.

 

In terms of clank - on paper the X should do that the best. I found though that the AO is more pleasing for my application. A bit of light drive in the Alpha voicing should do this too - though obviously it will not leave the low end alone. To be honest though I used to think this was important, but now believe it is not as important for me as I thought.

 

I have found that to "unlock" the sound I'm after, whichever flavour of Darkglass product I'm using, is usually a case of appropriate gain staging/EQ before and/or after the drive circuit, rather than endlessly cycling through the Darkglass product library. So for instance, one of the reasons that Dingwall's sound great through them is that they're hot - about 9dB hotter than my Ibanez. Dingwall's also have some mid information that other basses do not have.

 

I'd recommend that rather than chopping in your amp, buy a Source Audio EQ pedal first and experiment with it. I have one before my signal goes into the amp, and it makes a huge difference to my ears.

 

All that said the X900 looks cool. But I have no plans to get rid of the AO900.

 

Happy to brain dump further on my experiences if it helps

 

[NancyJohnson]

10 minutes ago, robiredale said:

I've got an AO900 and love it. etc.

 

 

I think the standout thing from your post is the idea of going through an EQ pedal first.  I'm not a fan of stomps per se; it was fine when my old Sansamp BDDI or RBI were just being jacked into a power amp, but beyond that, they just get in the way.  Of the main instruments I use regularly (I tend to rotate basses), three have John East circuits retro fitted and the other is a Spector with a stock Tone Pump.  These circuits should (in theory) give me enough front end tonal options.

 

At the end of the day, still feel the AO900 is an amp that you need to curate; it's a very fine line between all or nothing tonally.

[robiredale]

Definitely. The DG marketing vids all make it seem as though you plug in your bass and instantly sound like Jon Stockman, Jacob Umansky or whoever else is in the video. Not the case in my experience!

 

The pre's on your basses will help, but they're usually quite broad cuts and boosts. The Source EQ2 pedal (which I don't touch once set up) allows much more surgical cuts, which is what I've ended up with to get to where I wanted. You can also save a preset for each bass on that pedal, so all your instruments can go into the amp at roughly the same level - meaning that your comp/drive settings can be pretty much left alone.

 

Good luck, its worth it in the end!

[msb]

Picked up an e500 to just use at home and love to plug in a tablet and spin the knobs. Almost picked up a MicroTube V1 recently. 

[terocious]

I have been using Darkglass Exponent lately and been very pleased with it. I ditched my pedalboard entirely and really love the simplicity with this set up. Build up my default sounds around the Vintage Microtubes and really like what comes out of this thing.

[msb]

I’d love to see a tremolo in the Suite. My major complaint about what is available. 

[Downunderwonder]

On 28/09/2023 at 05:36, NancyJohnson said:

If Tech21 rolled out an RBI head (like the old VT Bass), I'd be in.

What about the older Landmark, RBI/RPM flavour?

 

600w of either, or blend.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Downunderwonder

[NancyJohnson]

8 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

What about the older Landmark, RBI/RPM flavour?

 

600w of either, or blend.

 

I owned a Landmark 300 head for a while - decent but not loud enough/enough headroom.  Could never find a 600w one.  

 

I suppose my point was more about if @Tech21NYC could produce a compact/loud Class-D head with an RBI front end, I'd be set for life.  Giving this a little more thought (a dangerous thing, that), wouldn't it be a thing if there was a one box modular head (like the MarkBass MoMark thing) whereby you bought a 900w class-D amp/box and you could simply slot in a GED/dUg/Harris module.

[basshead56]

Interesting thread.

I'm about to add an AO900 to my metal/grind setup, as I need something small, lightweight and capable of clean but with some drive options too.

Currently using an Aria CB1000 and (very, very recently) an EBMM DarkRay (though might not use it in this band), going to the mini board with both a Tech21 dUg pedal and an Ampeg SCR-DI on it, going to whatever backline is on offer (I rarely cart my SVT and 8x10 about and the PF rig is a little harder to dial in).

I have an old Behringer 8x10 that i was given, so just keep that at the rehearsal room with an old Peavey MKVI head on top.

The sound I go for is generally more clank than anything else, (one of the guitarists fills out all of the bottom end by himself lol) so the dUg goes great for the clank (mostly always on) and the SCR covers the cleaner side when required. I don't really rate the dUg running clean, controls are far too sensitive to dial in anything I like tone-wise and even when close, still not quite the Ampeg SVT tone i like.

 

I figure the AO900 will just give me a bit more headroom and some extra fuzz OD/fuzz options if needed

So  I might take the Ampeg SCR off the mini board and move it over to the big noise board and replace the VT Bass Deluxe as the pre there. Then maybe add the 4 button intelligent fs for the AO to the mini board

 

To me it seems between dUg and AO, there isn't much you cant get when it comes to heavy.

[NancyJohnson]

10 hours ago, basshead56 said:

To me it seems between dUg and AO, there isn't much you cant get when it comes to heavy.

 

Your comments pretty much mirror my experiences.  

 

Around 20 years ago I started using a bass POD (into the effects return of an Ashdown MAG combo); this was back when Line6 were actively sharing settings that allowed you to emulate (well known) player's tone(s).

 

Looking back, this was one of my happiest times.  A revelation.  As time went on, the outboard kit got smaller (BDDI,GT2, VTBASSDI) and amplification got bigger.  I started using a rack/Poweramp set up (RBI, then the GED unit).  I bought a dUg and GED2112DI for recording and then the AO900 arrived; as mentioned earlier, I honestly figured it would be a one-box solution to my needs.

 

It's a head that needs curating; to achieve parity from bass to bass it's easier to simply do the work with the basses so the tonal characteristics of each one are more or less the same.  Once you have the amp set up to your requirements, it's a fantastic thing.  It's the journey there that's a bit lumpy.

 

Writing this is a little cathartic.  I'd almost forgotten about the POD entirely, but it was a huge part of the journey tonally.  It was just so damn simple to just jack it into an amp and it sounded fantastic.

 

...just off to eBay for a peruse.

 

 

[markbunney]

Just to add to this, I have been using the AO500 for most of the year and have been really pleased with it.

 

at our last gig I used my Tech21 Steve Harris in front of it and found that the amp cut through our mix so much more. I had all of the EQ on the Steve Harris at noon, and dialled in the gain to around 2. 
 

I am going to try the same setting at next weekends gig as well