Reliced basses - what's the attraction?

[sturm]

i read the title as re-liced d'oh

[Kiwi]

I think there's something to instruments with a bit of player wear, as some will know from my posts. Mainly I look for an instrument that has been played and looked after (ie maintained) over a long period of time. The reason for this is that if the instrument neck has been subject to any warpings or changings as its settled over the years, regular fingerboard dressings every time its been refretted mean that its more likely to have a stable AND straight neck. An old bass that has been sitting in a case for most of its life is more likely to be just fit for display purposes, assuming that the neck has had a high chance of warping over the course of the instruments life. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule but its hard to tell without actually having the instrument in the hands and being able to sight down the neck.

The majority of instruments I've purchased in the last two years have had extensive player wear and been heavily gigged. The Celinder Update J (Ol' No. 2) was owned by one of Denmarks top session jazz bassists and has been gigged solidly since 1994, the Alembic has been owned by a number of Canada's top session bassists and again has been toured with extensively, the stingray has the most player wear and has a neck that has been refretted a number of times and fingerboard dressed. The only instrument I wouldn't want player wear on is a Pedulla Pentabuzz because the necks are dead rigid to begin with and player wear to the fingerboard just means you're closer to needing a refinish.

As for relicing, its cosmetic but I don't see the point of it either. Its like drinking orange squash and pretending its orange juice.

[Golchen]

Personally I don't get people who don't get it. Decent ones look cool and feel better to play, so what's wrong with that?

I don't like shiny new instruments, and one is always worried about getting a scratch/mark. For me it's played in, pre-dinged instruments all the way. What I'm not so keen on is:

i) Fender roadworn where they all have identical wear and

ii) all these DIY twats who try to flog their appalling guitar rape on eBay like they have 'upgraded' it


Note: To be honest, as far as the whole relic thing goes, I think that it looks amazing on a Strat, but not quite so good on other brands/instruments.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Golchen

[paul h]

[quote name='BassMunkee' post='482006' date='May 7 2009, 02:15 PM']Yes but that's different.
And also I agree with you in that there is no difference EXCEPT for the fact that a 62 or 75 bass IS from 62 or 75.[/quote]

Why is it different? I don't like modern, highly polished furniture. I prefer it to look like it's been kicked around a farmhouse for 50 years. Same with basses.

Also I was thinking of reissues. The majority of us do seem to agree that it's perfectly fine to buy a brand new bass that is designed to look like it was made 30 or 40 years ago. So why not go that step further and make it look as though it has been played for that long too?

Would you buy Fords brand new 2009 model if externally it looked exactly the same as a Mark III Cortina? (I bloody would!)

I guess at the end of the day it's no big deal, some of us like old and knackered, albeit faked and some want genuine, or shiny. The biggest difference I have noticed is that the relic fans never start threads about how they don't understand people who like shiny basses!



Paul.

p.s. Quick caveat...I haven't got any reliced basses although I am GASing over a hardcore reliced Sandberg PM4.

[skankdelvar]

The simple reason that people buy relics is that they want to buy relics and manufacturers are happy to oblige. On closer scrutiny, there are many reasons which have been re-hashed before on this forum ad tedium.

Beyond the simple functional issue of attempting to reproduce the playability of vintage instruments (e.g. rolling the fingerboard edges) or replicating 'tone', or keeping expensive vintage items out of the hands of gig thieves, lie the problematic areas of self-actualisation, self-image and transference of hero virtues. Let's not go there.

But I'd ask myself why some people find it so strange that other people buy relics. Why do some people buy Warwicks and others buy Fenders? Why do some people like Jazz and others like Punk?

In the end, it's just a matter of choice and no biggie.

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='paul h' post='482047' date='May 7 2009, 02:57 PM']Why is it different? I don't like modern, highly polished furniture. I prefer it to look like it's been kicked around a farmhouse for 50 years. Same with basses.

Also I was thinking of reissues. The majority of us do seem to agree that it's perfectly fine to buy a brand new bass that is designed to look like it was made 30 or 40 years ago. So why not go that step further and make it look as though it has been played for that long too?

Would you buy Fords brand new 2009 model if externally it looked exactly the same as a Mark III Cortina? (I bloody would!)

I guess at the end of the day it's no big deal, some of us like old and knackered, albeit faked and some want genuine, or shiny. The biggest difference I have noticed is that the relic fans never start threads about how they don't understand people who like shiny basses!



Paul.

p.s. Quick caveat...I haven't got any reliced basses although I am GASing over a hardcore reliced Sandberg PM4.[/quote]
What I meant was, was it's made from recycled wood so chances are it's gonna look a bit manky anyway. Which is fine. It's not a "new" thing that's pretending to be an old thing.
I don't like re-issues and I don't think that buying something new that looks like something old is great. (Personally).
Yes I would by the original if I wanted it.
You are absolutely correct.

[risingson]

I've always been an advocate of doing it yourself. No point kidding yourself and others into believing you've mistreated your instrument.

[TimR]

To the untrained and uninitiated they look old. Many people have reproduction furniure in their houses. No one knows whether the owner spent a fortune on it, have had it in the family for years, or whether it is reproduction. Until they get close and pick it up.

How many of the audience will say oh thats a reliced bass and how many will say wow that bass player had a really old bass?

More image than fasion. I don't play an 80's Jackson Charvel with pointy headstock in my function band and wouldn't play a wood bodied bass in an 80's hair metal band.

[jonny-lad]

[quote name='BassMunkee' post='482024' date='May 7 2009, 02:31 PM']LOL.
Yeah I know it's easier said than done.
I couldn't live with the idea that I had something that wasn't what it looked like...[/quote]

I could probably live quite happily with it, as long as it was a great bass anyway (regardless of the relicing)...I'd still have GAS for a real vintage bass though and that's what I'd be aiming for eventually!!

I'd never own a relic and pretend it was the real thing though - if it were a good bass that I enjoyed playing and that sounded good, there would be no reason for me to pretend that it was anything else...I suppose it could be argued that the relicing is pretending it's something else though!

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='TimR' post='482075' date='May 7 2009, 03:32 PM']To the untrained and uninitiated they look old. Many people have reproduction furniure in their houses. No one knows whether the owner spent a fortune on it, have had it in the family for years, or whether it is reproduction. Until they get close and pick it up.[/quote]

Yeh - but it's one thing buying a copy of some 17th century chest (fnarr fnarr) and quite another to beat it up to look like it's been around 400 years!

[josh3184]

personally I like a bass that's been chucked about a bit as I know that I can'#t do much more damage!

[niceguyhomer]

I think it's cool if the bassist is responsible for the relicing in the time honoured way - you know....had the bass 25 years etc but buying a reliced bass thinking it'll make you look cool IMO is utterly bogus.

[sshorepunk]

I prefer played to relic'ed, I think that is what Kiwi was saying.

I doubt I will ever buy a new bass, not because of the money, just feels better to have me when I have something thats been around a bit and seen some action (there's a like "my women gag" in that last statement!!)
You gota accpet some knocks, still gutted when I make a new one though!

Tony

[MB1]

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='482157' date='May 7 2009, 04:44 PM']I prefer played to relic'ed, I think that is what Kiwi was saying.

I doubt I will ever buy a new bass, not because of the money, just feels better to have me when I have something thats been around a bit and seen some action (there's a like "my women gag" in that last statement!!)
You gota accpet some knocks, still gutted when I make a new one though!

Tony[/quote]

MB1.

....If you can't take the knocks!...Don't play the Dominoes!

[BigRedX]

The weird thing about the relic look is that it seems to apply only to 'modern' electric stringed musical instruments. I can't think of any other case where "worn" is an acceptable look for something old and collectable. Certainly if you turned up to a classic car rally in something that had the same amount of wear as the average pre-1980 Fender you'd be a complete laughing stock.

Maybe it is because these instruments are still relatively young, in terms of human history and this is just a passing phase the market is going through.

Personally I prefer modern designs but if I did come across an old worn instrument that turned out to be "the one" for me, I have no qualms about having it visually brought back to an 'as new' condition.

[skankdelvar]

It's all a bagatelle - for example, some commonly held views:

Refinished classic cars = good
Refinished antiques = bad
Aged repro furniture = good
Aged modern furniture = bad
Refinished classic clothing = bad
Refinished vintage guitars = bad
Aged repro Guitars = big debate
Paying for aged repro guitar with aged repro £20 notes = Jail sentence

Edited May 7, 2009 by skankdelvar

[jonny-lad]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='482190' date='May 7 2009, 05:17 PM']The weird thing about the relic look is that it seems to apply only to 'modern' electric stringed musical instruments. I can't think of any other case where "worn" is an acceptable look for something old and collectable. Certainly if you turned up to a classic car rally in something that had the same amount of wear as the average pre-1980 Fender you'd be a complete laughing stock.

Maybe it is because these instruments are still relatively young, in terms of human history and this is just a passing phase the market is going through.

Personally I prefer modern designs but if I did come across an old worn instrument that turned out to be "the one" for me, I have no qualms about having it visually brought back to an 'as new' condition.[/quote]

There is the 'rat look' in some scenes, like volkswagen campers, where the bodywork is original, rusty, much like an unrestored camper, but the chassis, engine and so forth are restored, or modified...very much a love it or hate it look though!

[GreeneKing]

Relic'd basses?

False
Incongruent
A lie
Shallow
Insincere
Trying to be something they're not
Fake
A nonsense
A nod to marketing over sense
Just plain wrong

I'm not a great fan

Just to add that I love genuine, real 'used' instruments

Edited May 7, 2009 by GreeneKing

[maxrossell]

The more I think about it, the more I realise that it's just about aesthetics.

I'm not so sure that anyone who gets a relic'ed guitar is trying to fool anyone into thinking that they actually have a 60s strat (well, maybe a few people).

Take this, for instance. I like peeling paint more than fresh paint. I like stained wood more than I like clean wood. I like objects that have patina better than objects that are shiny-new. I like dirty better than clean. I like chaos better than order. Here's a picture of something I find completely beautiful:



So to someone else that just a mess, right? Not to me.

Okay, so granted the above photo is "real" decay, but I wouldn't find it any less appealing if someone deliberately did that to a building.

[4000]

[quote name='Golchen' post='482045' date='May 7 2009, 02:54 PM']Personally I don't get people who don't get it. Decent ones look cool and feel better to play, so what's wrong with that?

I don't like shiny new instruments, and one is always worried about getting a scratch/mark. For me it's played in, pre-dinged instruments all the way.
Note: To be honest, as far as the whole relic thing goes, I think that it looks amazing on a Strat, but not quite so good on other brands/instruments.[/quote]

Good point. I really, really, [i]really[/i] don't like the look of new Fenders. They look plain wrong to me. But an old beat up Fender looks great IMO. Not necessarily so with other makes though. Of course if you think a new Fender looks great/better you're probably not going to see the point of a Relic.

I completely agree about the played in thing too. I don't tend to like the feel of many new basses; I like my basses to feel like an old pair of slippers (er, not literally, that'd be neck stability out the window ).

As for saving up and buying the real thing, I played a Custom Shop Jazz Relic in the Gallery a while back, and it was gorgeous, and a really nice bass. It was approx £1200 used. The refin-d genuine 64 Jazz (which looked almost identical) that they recently had in was £4995; way beyond most people's budgets, and of course one with original finish would be way more than that. The 64 was a bit nicer than the Custom Shop, but not by much.

So, would I buy a Relic? If it was a Fender, without doubt, and easily in preference to a "pristine" new one. Anything else, possibly not, but then again it really depends what it looked and felt like. Oh, and I'd be quite happy to tell people it wasn't an old bass. what would be the point of that?

Edited May 7, 2009 by 4000

[4000]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='482049' date='May 7 2009, 02:58 PM']The simple reason that people buy relics is that they want to buy relics and manufacturers are happy to oblige. On closer scrutiny, there are many reasons which have been re-hashed before on this forum ad tedium.

Beyond the simple functional issue of attempting to reproduce the playability of vintage instruments (e.g. rolling the fingerboard edges) or replicating 'tone', or keeping expensive vintage items out of the hands of gig thieves, lie the problematic areas of self-actualisation, self-image and transference of hero virtues. Let's not go there.

But I'd ask myself why some people find it so strange that other people buy relics. Why do some people buy Warwicks and others buy Fenders? Why do some people like Jazz and others like Punk?

In the end, it's just a matter of choice and no biggie.[/quote]

Ah, a sane mind in a sea of insanity. I salute you sir!

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='maxrossell' post='482350' date='May 7 2009, 07:45 PM']The more I think about it, the more I realise that it's just about aesthetics.

I'm not so sure that anyone who gets a relic'ed guitar is trying to fool anyone into thinking that they actually have a 60s strat (well, maybe a few people).

Take this, for instance. I like peeling paint more than fresh paint. I like stained wood more than I like clean wood. I like objects that have patina better than objects that are shiny-new. I like dirty better than clean. I like chaos better than order. Here's a picture of something I find completely beautiful:



So to someone else that just a mess, right? Not to me.

Okay, so granted the above photo is "real" decay, but I wouldn't find it any less appealing if someone deliberately did that to a building.[/quote]
Actually, I really like that photo as well...

[BigRedX]

But would you want to live there with getting the builders in to sort it out first?

[BarnacleBob]

Is there a word for that sickening feeling you get the first time u prang a (so far) pristine bass? And do you still get it if you have a pre-relic'd bass.

BB

[Mikey R]

[quote name='BarnacleBob' post='482470' date='May 7 2009, 09:26 PM']Is there a word for that sickening feeling you get the first time u prang a (so far) pristine bass?[/quote]

Yep, that word is "temporary".