Will this be enough?

[asingardenof]

We've a gig coming up in December at a venue we've played at before, but unfortunately it's had a change of ownership since last time, and the old owners took their £5k PA system with them (understandably!).

 

We've been asked to provide our own PA but we're not sure if what we'll have will be enough. For context it's a 300 capacity bar. Noise makers we'll have are:

 

2 x 1000W Behringer active speakers for vocals and keyboards

Unmiked drum kit

My Ashdown ABM600 + Barefaced Two10S

Boss Katana 100W guitar combo

 

A recent photo from the back of the venue is below, with the stage in the distance. The question is will our PA be sufficient? We don't have any subwoofers but if needs be could buy one.

[Downunderwonder]

Not seeing 300 capacity there, the bar runs most of the length of the room.

 

Had a sub drummer last night. I was reminded how loud a properly kicked kick drum can be. Got a wee bit carried away myself.

 

Shouldn't be a problem to get plenty loud enough that folks are leaning over the bar to shout their drinks orders. If you really want to raise Cain no harm in adding a subwoofer.

[Chienmortbb]

To be honest, if you are only putting vocals through the PA you should be fine. Those at the bar are only there for the drinking.

[asingardenof]

3 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Shouldn't be a problem to get plenty loud enough that folks are leaning over the bar to shout their drinks orders. If you really want to raise Cain no harm in adding a subwoofer.

 

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the conclusion we're reaching

[mrtcat]

I'm inclined to say it won't be enough. The thought of wringing everything out of a pair of Behringer active cabs, to get both vocals and keys heard, over the top of acoustic drums in a room like that would not fill me with joy. Any option to hire?

[Downunderwonder]

My old PA put 100w per side into JBL e140 based vocal cabs. No worries in a venue that size.

[Muzz]

The only thing I'd be concerned about is the kick - it'll not carry down the room if the drummer isn't a bit of a monster, but, as people have said, if the bar area is more for people drinking than listening closely, you may well get away with it...

[Phil Starr]

Not all Behringer are the same so to an extent it depends. Generally you get what you pay for with Behringer.

 

”unmiked kit” You only need to match the drums and I’m assuming you do this at every other gig? If so stop worrying. An unmiked kit will be heard all through the bar and so will everything else. The punters will naturally arrange themselves where the noise is optimum. Those who want to talk will go away from the band and those that like it louder will move closer. The bar won’t thank you anyway if they can’t hear the bar orders. If there are that many people expect some absorption of the higher frequencies to be noticeable in the vocals. Ideally get the cabs as high as possible and if you can tilt them down slightly to point at the middle of the audience, though your speake stands probably won’t allow a tilt.

 

Good luck and have a good night 😀

[Happy Jack]

There's nowt wrong with Behringer powered cabs as long as you don't believe their numbers. If they claim 1000W then just assume they're actually putting out 250W each and you'll not go far wrong.

 

In a room that size, 2x250W tops should be way more than you need. 

 

Rather than worrying about overall power, you'll probably need to concentrate on getting the EQ right.

[asingardenof]

8 hours ago, mrtcat said:

I'm inclined to say it won't be enough. The thought of wringing everything out of a pair of Behringer active cabs, to get both vocals and keys heard, over the top of acoustic drums in a room like that would not fill me with joy. Any option to hire?

 

There is if needs be. I understand other bands have played there recently with similar setups to ours, so possibly a hired-in sub might give a bit more headroom?

[bertbass]

In the 60s / 70s and 80s, a hundred watt Pa amp and a pair of 2 x 12s, or if you were rich enough a pair of 4 x 12s, was more than adequate.  Don't worry.

[Phil Starr]

18 hours ago, asingardenof said:

 

There is if needs be. I understand other bands have played there recently with similar setups to ours, so possibly a hired-in sub might give a bit more headroom?

It's hard to give you really specific advice, without knowing the venue and type of music you play please just treat this as tips to try rather than 'this is the way to do it'

 

If you are going bass from backline and unmiked drums then the only thing you have that will trouble your speakers are the keys. Adding subs really helps the kick but not much in the way of bass even goes through the subs, nothing at all if your are using backline for that gig.  Getting the low frequencies out of the PA will help them a lot with power handling reducing both over-heating and excursion and subs will help for this but if money is tight and you are prepared to compromise for this one off then rolling off the bass in the keys will help. In fact it might be worth looking at what your keys player is actually playing with his left hand. A heavy left hand and electric bass isn't a good combination and both musically and in the mix you shouldn't be competing for the same sonic space.

 

It's a sticking plaster strategy but if you have a 50 or 80Hz filter on the mixer it might be worth engaging it on the keys channel and seeing what it sounds like or alternatively adding about 6db/octve bass cut in their eq which will protect the speakers. In what looks like a long narrow space with a low ceiling in front of you it looks like it could be boomy anyway. Rolling off the bass will thin the keys if he is playing full chords low down but will leave most of what they do untouched and will clean up the mix, the punters will probably not notice.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'd say you're fine, as the only people who'll be listening to you are those close to the stage. The rest of them near the bar aren't there to hear you, they're there to drink and with any luck not go home alone. I've played many places like that where if there was any comment about the sound it was that it was too loud and was interfering with people's conversations at the bar.

[JPJ]

My rig has two EV ZLX15P tops (the plastic box ones). EV’s marketing department claim 1000w but there is plenty of internet based evidence that they are only actually 250w RMS. We’ve played similar sized venues using ours for vocals, a smidge of guitar and bass, and a bit of kick drum and we’ve been fine. Sure, not the loudest but enough to have a great gig and be booked again.