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Fake Rickenbacker?


sirmuppet

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Hi all. 

 

Am pretty certain this is a fake but just looking for confirmation. Wasn't given a model but I believe it's meant to be a 4001c64s based on the Paul McCartney bass. Has everything it should like Ric branded tuners, case and case candy. Truss rod cover looks genuine as does the bridge. The later I'm not 100% on the saddles. Has the satin finish that it should, reverse headstock and truss cover. Even has the zreo fret. 

 

Taking the pickguard off though and things start to look fake. The routing for the neck pickup to the control cavity looks bad. The final warning light is the trus rod, yup just one. I've owned a couple of Rics and this feels very good and if I hadn't have taken the pickguard ond cover off I'd have believed it to be genuine. Am just checking that I'm 100% correct that it's a fake before I go back, just in case they put a single truss rod in the model, I don't think they did but I have heard Rickenbacker are now using single truss rods.

 

It's a niche model I'd think to fake and I can't find any of these fakes online. Any help would be great for going back to the seller. 

 

Thanks.

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2 hours ago, AMV001 said:

Since when did Rickenbacker start using mini pots? Shouldn't they be full size CTS?

 

Caveat- I could be completely out of touch. I've only seen the inside of original 4001's.

I did wonder that but haven't ever opened one up. I twice had Fenders that used mini pots when they generally use full size ones. 

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1 hour ago, Skybone said:

I'm no expert on these, but the truss rod area and the neck pickup rout just don't look quite right.

 

And shouldn't they have a "skunk stripe" as well?

Pickup route looked off to me. That said the channel is messy but lines up with what @kodiakblair posted but the pickup pocket doesn't look quite the same.

 

The truss rod route looks fine but not as wide as it only has a single truss rod. 

 

The 4001C64S doesn't have a skunk stripe, so at least that looks correct. 

Edited by sirmuppet
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22 minutes ago, Skybone said:

The TRC doesn't look quite right either, it looks as though it's printed, rather than the usual "raised" lettering.

 

Might be a build by a certain British luthier who does very accurate replicas.

 

You're right it is flat. Is flat under but under a clear plexi.

 

After much searching I did manage to find one of these on Aliexpress. It's a very good copy but there is an issue with the neck pickup. 

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On 13/10/2023 at 08:03, sirmuppet said:

 

You're right it is flat. Is flat under but under a clear plexi.

 

After much searching I did manage to find one of these on Aliexpress. It's a very good copy but there is an issue with the neck pickup. 

The C64 and other reissues come with the original plexi-style printed plate rather than the raised version. 

 

Wiring isn't factory. The channel route is accurate. I haven't seen enough of the new single-truss models to have an opinion yet. If its a faker it's a significant jump above the average. 

 

Only thing that would really put me off is considering how few guitars Ric makes a year I can't see them prioritising a C64 run in the short time since they went to single truss. Have you sent Ric the Serial number yet? 

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The single truss rod came out first on the Al Cisneros model bass a few years ago. I think it was then put into limited run models made over the next couple of years, which may account for this niche 4001C64S having one. So if the serial number indicates it being made in 2020 or so, it could be genuine. The cavities under the scratchplate looks the typical mixed bag of clean areas and then that bodgery with presumably a Forstner bit between the control cavity and neck pickup cavity. My genuine Rick 4003 has marker pen writing near the controls as well, so that may be factory.

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What an interesting thread.

 

I would have said it was fake based on the routing, it looks like I did it and was not what I would expect of an expensive guitar. Shows how little I know about Rickenbackers.

 

Be interested in how this finishes. Always like learning new things.

 

Thanks


Rob

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I don't think Rickenbacker have made C64s for a decade or more so would have had the dual trussrods (especially because they were the more pricey "vintage correct" model. Kinda. A right handed version of a lefty...They also didn't have a zero fret.

I'm going for a HW custom order tribute passed on as genuine. 

Happy to be wrong but that's where I'd place my bet.

 

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50 minutes ago, miles'tone said:

I don't think Rickenbacker have made C64s for a decade or more so would have had the dual trussrods (especially because they were the more pricey "vintage correct" model. Kinda. A right handed version of a lefty...They also didn't have a zero fret.

I'm going for a HW custom order tribute passed on as genuine. 

Happy to be wrong but that's where I'd place my bet.

 


I thought that about the zero fret, too, but there seem to be loads of them out there when you search for 4001c64s

 

https://guitarchimp.com/products/2009-rickenbacker-4001c64s-mg-satin-mapleglo-bass-guitar-2

 

https://guitarchimp.com/products/2005-rickenbacker-4001c64-jetglo-bass-guitar

 

 

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I think this is a 70s/80s Japanese copy that someone's trying to fob off as genuine. To make it look more 'authentic' they've tried to make the pickup routing look rough & gone over the wiring channel with a forstner bit - notice how it's dead straight rather than the slight curve of the routing on genuine 4001s.

 

The hardware (apart from the tuners) back up the theory - the chrome saddles & round tailpiece holes (real ones are more square) indicate it's a copy bridge, & the bridge pickup looks like the unit found in MIJ Shaftesbury 4001 fakers - the corners of the bobbin are much more squared-off than the genuine unit & the poles have rounded heads, not the hex heads of a modern Rick Hi-Gain or the squared-off slugs the pretendy horseshoe reissues have. The neck unit (which I assume is a toaster) has a single magnet rather than 6 individual poles a genuine toaster should have.

 

Several Japanese brands had specific McCartney replicas - amongst others Greco, Kasuga/Heerby & Fernandes sold them in their home market in the 80s/90s (and probably later) and all of those would have had a single truss rod. A tenner says the one on this bass will be metric rather than the imperial size you'd imagine Rickenbacker would insist on!

Edited by Bassassin
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Is this the Cash converter one with no serial number?

 

If it is it sold on EBay for a BIN of £3000 but then turns up at Cash Convertors at half that. I thought it was a fake just off the photos, it looks like it trying to be genuine but something is not right. Hope you can get your money back.

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