Woodinblack Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 hours ago, Happy Jack said: So basically, because jazz. No, basically because music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I can sight read flat containing keys way better than sharps. That's a side effect of spending a long time in a big band. 99% of the stuff is in F / Bb / Eb with a smattering of Ab and Db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: No, basically because music. It's music, Woody, but not as we know it ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Personally I blame the Greeks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: It's music, Woody, but not as we know it ... Well, yes, it is music as we know it, ie.. just normal music theory, I think the only reason it can seem odd is if you had never done any music theory. Its stops you having to make random exceptions for certain keys, so that in all keys you have all notes represented - if you are reading sheet music how would you represent a 'normal' a# vs a? If you are changing it you would put a sharp in front of note, but if every a was either an a or a#, it would be tiring to read without going through it first. If you don't read music, then I agree it can seem a bit odd, but then if you don't read music, why does it matter. I don't read greek and it kind of looks all greek to me! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 hour ago, TimR said: Not knowing the difference between a Gb and an F# can really play havoc with band communication. I was once trying to teach a guitarist a tune and when I said play Gb he just looked at me blankly. That was in a heavy rock trio. I would translate that to F# and pick the one that worked best for the passage. I just have to commit to sharps or flats for general usage and not both at the same time, I can translate but it takes processing I'm using up just being in a screwed up world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 17 hours ago, Mottlefeeder said: I think that the concept of a double flat comes from the need to use each note name once and once only in a scale in that key. So if you have already used the E (as an Eb), the next note up has to be an F something. David The way I did it also only used each note once and without using double of anything. Never mind, let's have double sharps and triple flats. "This next song is in F###, now that's jaaazz - oww!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 33 minutes ago, TeresaFR said: I would translate that to F# and pick the one that worked best for the passage. I just have to commit to sharps or flats for general usage and not both at the same time, I can translate but it takes processing I'm using up just being in a screwed up world. Ah ok. I misunderstood, I thought you were converting all your flats to sharps because you didn't like flats. 😆 You only get bbs and ##s. And it's not jazz, it's just normal theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thump Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 hours ago, fretmeister said: Anyone can go from zero to reading Grade 3 in a year by only giving it 10 mins a day. Little and often. None of that 3 hours on a Saturday crap. 10 mins a day. That's it. This gives me hope, I have next to zero theory knowledge and I'd really like to get a grasp of it. Thinking of finding a tutor locally as I'm not even sure where to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thump said: This gives me hope, I have next to zero theory knowledge and I'd really like to get a grasp of it. Thinking of finding a tutor locally as I'm not even sure where to start I started with Stuart Clayton's Sight Reading Bass books, and then using example sight reading tests for double bass. There's lots more available for double bass than bass guitar. Just ignore any bowing instructions! Clayton beginner sight reading Double bass sight reading samples I like using samples / examples because there are loads of them and it means each time I am actually reading something new rather than remembering them from the last time. Then it's just realising it's a language. When you start talking as an infant you copy. Then when you start reading everything is broken down into phonetics - but that is only a stepping stone. As a kid you look at a word and split it into the little parts, but eventually you don't do that anymore and instead recognise the entire pattern. The same happens in music after enough practice - even high speed shred metal runs have patterns! So eventually you don't see individual notes like F/B/A/Bb/C/D/E you just recognise the pattern is the F Major scale. Maybe the Bb has been left out and it's a jump to the C - you end up recognising that too, much quicker than actually reading each note. But the secret really is - 10 mins per day, and play as slow as you need to get every note right. Never be embarrassed if you have to consult a picture with the lines and the note names on it before playing the note - just get it right. There's loads of easy remembered filthy mnemonics to help! It's also a good idea to say the note name as you play it to help reinforce it. As with any skill though - having a good teacher will really help. They can stop bad habits before they start. Good luck! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thump Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Awesome thanks, I'll get that book ordered up, find a tutor and take it from there. Thank you 🫡 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaFR Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, TimR said: Ah ok. I misunderstood, I thought you were converting all your flats to sharps because you didn't like flats. 😆 You only get bbs and ##s. And it's not jazz, it's just normal theory. I'm not a fan of high-rises. Yeah, that was bad, I'll grab my clothes and be on my way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Centuries ago scales were not tempered. Therefore C# and Db didn't have to be the same note. Lutes and gambas had frets, but they could be moved. They were moved for every scale so that certain intervals sounded good. Now read the previous chapter again. When a particular scale was used, it sounded different back then. Nowadays tempered scales have changed the game completely: now C# sounds the same as Db. C# major has 7 sharps, Db major 5 flats. Centuries ago they really sounded different, because C# and Db could sound different: they were in different places of different scales. This isn't the case any more. The scales formed since ancient greeks changed after Händel and the like started experimenting with tempered scales. String instruments were relatively easy to re-tune for every scale/song, but cembalo, organ, and piano were a chore. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma This may clarify a bit the reason for those "theoretical" scales. They were very useful back then (and have a place in certain circumstances), but now it is possible to use scales up to 6 sharps and flats and practically cover every minor and major scale aavailable. Baroque and older music played with old instruments may sound slightly strange, because their A may be quite a lot lower, and the intervals are not based on tempered scale. That's why they couldn't have played II-V-I progressions. Listen and learn. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekomatic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 This thread needs some chromatic harpsichord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, nekomatic said: This thread needs some chromatic harpsichord... Would it cost all that much to get that mended..? ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Amazingly this popped up on my Facebook feed. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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