ahpook Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 Your beef isn't with the folks on this thread who might still want to talk about the rather marvellous video. Happy Jack blocked you, so posting this serves no purpose other than trashing his thread. Please stop spoiling it for everyone else, theres a good chap. Quote
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said: ...It's usually done by those wee screws at the back of the bridge attached to the saddles, by moving them back and forth, depending... That's nowadays, innit. 'Back then', in Hofner land, things were (and still are...) done differently. It's part of History, just like tempered keyboards and micro-tones. One gets used to what one usually hears, and it's all good, anyway. For those that might not recognise this ^^, it's a bridge from a Hofner 500 violin bass, such as that played in the video shown in the OP. Intonation is done by choosing which slot to put the fret wire, and slanting the whole bridge to get the intonation as best as possible. It works as well as is/was required. How are violins and double basses intonations adjusted..? That's right; they aren't. It's all in the fingers. Edited October 17, 2023 by Dad3353 3 Quote
rushbo Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Happy Jack said: Feeling the love here, guys. 😂Disparaging The Beatles has been a thing for as long as I can remember. Some think it makes them sound cool, some think it makes them sound clever, occasionally it really is just a matter of taste. I have to admit, I used to get really annoyed when people would have a go at The Beatles. Now, I just roll my eyes and get on with my day. Regarding the tone on the YouTube video that has prompted this thread, I'm guessing that the original uploader used one of those clever AI things to isolate the tracks. While they're good, they're far from perfect and they tend to make the "isolated" copies sound a little warbly, to say the least. I'd imagine if you dug out the mastertape, the original bass sound would be a lot richer and fuller. As for the intonation... yep, it's not perfect. But in the context of the completed song, it's decent. And if it got past the scrutiny of George Martin, it'll do for me. The early-mid era Beatles records are generally snapshots of four blokes playing together in a studio. If one guy fluffed something, if the rest of the track was good, that was the take they kept. When the band ceased live performances and practically moved into Abbey Road, performances got a lot more polished. And Macca was playing a Rickenbacker by then so his playing became less "approximate" beyond the seventh fret. It's OK to not like The Beatles. It's OK to pick faults at their deficiencies. But in spite of dubious intonation and questionable tone, they did OK, didn't they? Edited October 17, 2023 by rushbo 1 Quote
Baloney Balderdash Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ahpook said: Your beef isn't with the folks on this thread who might still want to talk about the rather marvellous video. Happy Jack blocked you, so posting this serves no purpose other than trashing his thread. Please stop spoiling it for everyone else, theres a good chap. I posted an on topic comment, commenting the video, I wasn't the one starting to spur patronizing assumptions and comments about about other posters. Edited October 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote
ahpook Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Baloney Balderdash said: I posted an on topic comment, commenting the video, I wasn't the one starting to spur patronizing comments about other posters. Be a gent, and leave it. Edited October 17, 2023 by ahpook 1 Quote
diskwave Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 @Baloney Balderdash I despair when I read posts like yours. This obsession with digitally perfect sound at the expense of good song writing.....hear it all the time. You can keep todays grey indestinct but perfectly rendered mush. Think I'll go put on some Sinatra and then some Motown even tho of course it's all over the place.......technically. 1 Quote
Baloney Balderdash Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, greavesbass said: @Baloney Balderdash I despair when I read posts like yours. This obsession with digitally perfect sound at the expense of good song writing.....hear it all the time. You can keep todays grey indestinct but perfectly rendered mush. Think I'll go put on some Sinatra and then some Motown even tho of course it's all over the place.......technically. What the hell are you on about, you talk like you know me and my preferences, making all kind of crazy assumptions about my musical taste and preferences, all I said was the intonation is off, which it is. And you are dead wrong about me too! Edited October 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash Quote
chris_b Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 If the Hofner violin bass was anything like my old Framus the bridge was not adjustable. You got it close and that was good enough. Bass players didn't get properly technical for another 40 years. I still haven't. I taught myself to read music from the sheet music of Beatles songs. Reading the dots and playing along. I progressed to Atlantic and Motown but this was the start of it all. 1 Quote
ahpook Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, rushbo said: I have to admit, I used to get really annoyed when people would have a go at The Beatles. Now, I just roll my eyes and get on with my day. Regarding the tone on the YouTube video that has prompted this thread, I'm guessing that the original uploader used one of those clever AI things to isolate the tracks. While they're good, they're far from perfect and they tend to make the "isolated" copies sound a little warbly, to say the least. I'd imagine if you dug out the mastertape, the original bass sound would be a lot richer and fuller. As for the intonation... yep, it's not perfect. But in the context of the completed song, it's decent. And if it got past the scrutiny of George Martin, it'll do for me. The early-mid era Beatles records are generally snapshots of four blokes playing together in a studio. If one guy fluffed something, if the rest of the track was good, that was the take they kept. When the band ceased live performances and practically moved into Abbey Road, performances got a lot more polished. And Macca was playing a Rickenbacker so his playing became less "approximate" beyond the seventh fret. It's OK to not like The Beatles. It's OK to pick faults at their deficiencies. But in spite of dubious intonation and questionable tone, they did OK, didn't they? Good points indeed - it's a snapshot and often the overall performance was the priority, not perfection across the board. l Edited October 17, 2023 by ahpook Quote
rushbo Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 In an attempt to drag the thread back on the right track... Although it would have been great to have the facility to listen to isolated bass tracks back when we first picked up our basses, we were forced to use our ears to try and work lines out. We may have got it wrong more times than we got it right (I certainly did) but we spent a lot of time doing accidental ear training. And that's not a bad thing. 3 Quote
diskwave Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 Just now, Baloney Balderdash said: What the hell are you on about, you talk like you know me and my preferences Remain calm. Your preference was to leave a sarcastic emoji after commenting on the Beatles intonation?...( I have never in my entire life heard anyone comment on The Beatles intonation before) Thats good enough for me. 1 Quote
Baloney Balderdash Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, greavesbass said: Remain calm. Your preference was to leave a sarcastic emoji after commenting on the Beatles intonation?...( I have never in my entire life heard anyone comment on The Beatles intonation before) Thats good enough for me. Well now you have (and not "The Beatles intonation" (what is that even supposed to mean?), the intonation of Paul's bass in the video linked to in the OP), and it's true too... Also, sarcastic emote (preference, what?)... Good one! Thumbs up for reading my mind through the internet! Edited October 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote
MartinB Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, rushbo said: Regarding the tone on the YouTube video that has prompted this thread, I'm guessing that the original uploader used one of those clever AI things to isolate the tracks. While they're good, they're far from perfect and they tend to make the "isolated" copies sound a little warbly, to say the least. I'd imagine if you dug out the mastertape, the original bass sound would be a lot richer and fuller. They'll have been taken from the video game The Beatles: Rock Band, so any isolation was done by Giles Martin from the original tapes - it's a lot cleaner than you'd get by sticking the full track through an "AI" stem separator. Quote
rushbo Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, MartinB said: They'll have been taken from the video game The Beatles: Rock Band, so any isolation was done by Giles Martin from the original tapes - it's a lot cleaner than you'd get by sticking the full track through an "AI" stem separator. Are all the Beatles songs available in split format on Rock Band? I thought Giles Martin separated about 45? Quote
Bleat Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, rushbo said: In an attempt to drag the thread back on the right track... Does this mean the thread is now correctly intonated? 1 1 Quote
Baloney Balderdash Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Dad3353 said: That's nowadays, innit. 'Back then', in Hofner land, things were (and still are...) done differently. It's part of History, just like tempered keyboards and micro-tones. One gets used to what one usually hears, and it's all good, anyway. For those that might not recognise this ^^, it's a bridge from a Hofner 500 violin bass, such as that played in the video shown in the OP. Intonation is done by choosing which slot to put the fret wire, and slanting the whole bridge to get the intonation as best as possible. It works as well as is/was required. How are violins and double basses intonations adjusted..? That's right; they aren't. It's all in the fingers. That's because violins and double basses are fretless instruments though, when you are stuck with frets being able to adjust intonation at the bridge is kind of crucial. I also like to point out that I am in no way promoting musical perfection, far from it, and actually listening to some of the music I created/helped create should make that perfectly clear to everyone, it's just kind of obvious that Paul's Höfner bass had intonation problems when isolated like that, and when listening to it isolated like this it does kind of make my face go as that emote I used (not sarcastic at all, as otherwise suggested by mister internet mindreader Greavesbass). I guess how this rather objective statement was taken does show how zealous most Beatles fans are (and mind, while not exactly being a die heart Beatles fan, I actually really do like them and much of the music they created). Edited October 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash 2 Quote
MartinB Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, rushbo said: Are all the Beatles songs available in split format on Rock Band? I thought Giles Martin separated about 45? 45 songs on the disc, and a bunch more as DLC (including all the missing ones from Rubber Soul). They didn't do all the songs... no-one needs stems of You Know My Name (Look Up The Number) 😆 1 Quote
rushbo Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, MartinB said: They didn't do all the songs... no-one needs stems of You Know My Name (Look Up The Number) 😆 I didn't think I did, but now... that's the only one I want. Well, maybe "What’s the New Mary Jane" as well. 3 Quote
BigRedX Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, greavesbass said: This obsession with digitally perfect sound at the expense of good song writing... But that's just as bad an assumption that the "digitally perfect sound" comes at the expense of anything. Why can't both the sound, the performance and the songwriting all be excellent? 3 Quote
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, BigRedX said: ... all be excellent? Define 'excellent' in this context to the satisfaction of everyone. I'd suggest as a starting point : Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band... Edited October 17, 2023 by Dad3353 1 Quote
Earbrass Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 3 hours ago, BigRedX said: Live it doesn't matter Well, it didn't used to, before almost every gig was filmed on someone's phone and then posted to YouTube or Facebook to stand forever as a testament to one's imperfections. 1 Quote
DCS222 Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: Define 'excellent' in this context to the satisfaction of everyone. I'd suggest as a starting point : Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band... The intonation on that harmonica… 😏 😘 1 Quote
ahpook Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, rushbo said: Fruuking genius I'm offering you my seat, raising my hat and buying you a drink all at the same time. Edited October 17, 2023 by ahpook 1 Quote
Freddy4strings Posted October 17, 2023 Posted October 17, 2023 On 15/10/2023 at 08:14, DCS222 said: your dancing icon has nailed Drive my car! Couldn’t take my eyes off it 😂 Brilliant. I thought exactly the same even before I read your comment. Had to watch it a couple of times just to make I wasn't imagining it. 1 Quote
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