Stereo DI for keyboard

[SumOne]

I'm getting interference on the long unbalanced 2x mono cables (1/4") between my keyboard and the mixer so need a DI. 

 

Is there any benefit to getting a stereo DI (£197 for Radial Stereo DI) vs 2x mono ones (£82 for Radial stage bug)? 

 

As far as I can tell, the stereo unit is basically just 2x mono together. 2x mono saves £33, and means I could use just one for Bass if needed. Downside being a bit more cluttered than just one stereo unit. Are there other benefits to stereo units? 

 

 

[Matt P]

I don't know of any real reason that a stereo box would be better or worse than 2 mono boxes, the ones you are looking at aren't quite equivalent as the stagebug is a slightly stripped out version of the pro-di (the stereo box is 2 pro-di in one box, the pro-di being £133 each)

 

I have both the Pro-di and a stagebug and i've not managed to hear a difference, my suggestion would be the stagebugs as they have a handy feature for keyboards where you can plug in both left and right into one box and it will sum to mono. handy if you need to use one of them for a bass (or other instrument) in an emergency.

 

Matt

[Happy Jack]

I've not found a stereo signal from my keyboards to be particularly useful but if you're using lots of FX (chorus & flanging especially) then I imagine it makes quite a difference.

 

I have a decent selection of Radial boxes including the classic JMI and a couple of Stagebugs, but on the rare occasions I want to send a stereo signal I actually use

 

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/SubZero-Dual-Passive-DI-Box/2SYK?origin=product-ads&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhL6pBhDjARIsAGx8D58OdPZMphVNgmLel6sMA0e21pntD4efOOJehMyvkACu7S3ulLNLeDkaAkQ2EALw_wcB

 

It works absolutely fine, is smaller and lighter than a JMI, has the Stereo/Mono flick switch, and is WAY cheaper.

 

 

 

[BigRedX]

There is nothing "stereo" about a stereo DI. AFAIK all are simply two single channel DI units in one box. 

 

For my band we have both two channel and single channel DI boxes. The two channel ones have the advantage of being a single box and are only less versatile if you sometime need to use them for two single channel sources that are a long way apart. 

 

BTW I assume this is for live use - is there any real benefit to having a stereo feed from the keyboard? IME there is little point in stereo for live use as only a few people in the audience get the full stereo effect, everyone else will hear mostly one side or the other, and this can cause it's own problems with some panning options.

[SumOne]

2 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

I've not found a stereo signal from my keyboards to be particularly useful but if you're using lots of FX (chorus & flanging especially) then I imagine it makes quite a difference.

 

I have a decent selection of Radial boxes including the classic JMI and a couple of Stagebugs, but on the rare occasions I want to send a stereo signal I actually use

 

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/SubZero-Dual-Passive-DI-Box/2SYK?origin=product-ads&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhL6pBhDjARIsAGx8D58OdPZMphVNgmLel6sMA0e21pntD4efOOJehMyvkACu7S3ulLNLeDkaAkQ2EALw_wcB

 

It works absolutely fine, is smaller and lighter than a JMI, has the Stereo/Mono flick switch, and is WAY cheaper.

 

 

 

 

I am occasionally using things like ping pong echo so stereo is needed. That subzero DI looks like a winner. 

[BigRedX]

6 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

I am occasionally using things like ping pong echo so stereo is needed. That subzero DI looks like a winner. 

 

IME ping-pong delay effects are particularly bad live because for some listeners it will just sound out of time. While we use some stereo effects on our live backing, I always tell the PA engineer to pan them at 9 and 3 o'clock maximum width. Also all the tracks have been checked listening each side of the stereo on its own to ensure that hearing one louder than the other won't cause "out of sync" effects as often the PA top can be louder than the foldback on stage depending on where you are stood.

[SumOne]

56 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

IME ping-pong delay effects are particularly bad live because for some listeners it will just sound out of time. While we use some stereo effects on our live backing, I always tell the PA engineer to pan them at 9 and 3 o'clock maximum width. Also all the tracks have been checked listening each side of the stereo on its own to ensure that hearing one louder than the other won't cause "out of sync" effects as often the PA top can be louder than the foldback on stage depending on where you are stood.

 

Thanks, I'll give it some experimenting - perhaps mono is going to be better live.

 

A bit more background:

 

We are a 7 piece band that does some Reggae/Dub stuff, the 3x horns and lead guitar use wireless. I usually play Bass for the band but have just started playing Keys for a few dubby songs that really need piano/rhodes chord chops and echo type effects  (one of the horn players steps in for Bass for those songs).

 

In practice sessions using 2x un-balanced 1/4" cables from keys to the mixing desk there has been interferance (possibly due to all the wireless users) so some sort of balanced signal is probably needed.

 

A lot of the dubby keys FX that I set up at home are strereo - they sound better in stereo at home and in practice sessions but I get what you're saying, that stereo might not be so good for an audience member in a live setting stood near one speaker, so perhaps mono (or limited stereo) will be better. Perhaps a related thing: Reggae soundsystems tend to be in mono, and some club soundsystems are mono or with limited stereo. 

 

I don't have a Bass DI as have always been using an Amp/Cab for pub gigs without going through the band PA (as it is a bit weak for Bass), or festival things I've still used the Amp/Cab for stage and ran the DI from the Amp to PA. So a DI that I could also use for Bass if the situation required would be handy.

 

Perhaps a stereo DI is going to be most useful for me as it gives the options of: a) mono Keys, b) stereo Keys, c) Bass, d) Bass and mono Keys.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by SumOne

[SumOne]

2 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

I've not found a stereo signal from my keyboards to be particularly useful but if you're using lots of FX (chorus & flanging especially) then I imagine it makes quite a difference.

 

I have a decent selection of Radial boxes including the classic JMI and a couple of Stagebugs, but on the rare occasions I want to send a stereo signal I actually use

 

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/SubZero-Dual-Passive-DI-Box/2SYK?origin=product-ads&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhL6pBhDjARIsAGx8D58OdPZMphVNgmLel6sMA0e21pntD4efOOJehMyvkACu7S3ulLNLeDkaAkQ2EALw_wcB

 

It works absolutely fine, is smaller and lighter than a JMI, has the Stereo/Mono flick switch, and is WAY cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

£30 for the stereo one is a great deal, but £13 for mono is even better.

 

I'll go for two of the mono ones and save myself the princely sum of £4. I guess the drawback is it's perhaps a bit more clutter/less neat than having one box - but it means that if I decide to go Mono for Keys then I can use just one smaller box, and I'd have the second one spare or to use with Bass without 1/4" cables having to meet in one DI place if that doesn't work for stage placement. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by SumOne

[SumOne]

I wasn't expecting the £13 sub zero DI to be quite so small! 

 

 

Cute little thing!

 

I've only used at home so far but seems good quality and does what it's supposed to do. 

 

 

[LukeFRC]

not as cheap as subzero, less than radial 

https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-dual-micro-di-box/ 

[BigRedX]

Requires phantom power for operation, and AFAICS there's no PSU or battery option, so won't be suitable for every situation.

[Chienmortbb]

Well the G4M box is passive, so there will be some signal loss.  The Orchid should be OK as the OP has said he is feeding a mixer. As long as it has phantom power, he should be OK.

[BigRedX]

There are plenty of mixers that don't have phantom power. My band played at a venue the other weekend with such a mixer. Everything we use goes straight into the PA. If we had DI boxes that relied on phantom power to work we'd have been stuffed. I've never noticed any signal loss with the EMO DI boxes we use, and IME they are way more reliable than the typical budget active DI boxes that the in house PA engineers supply in that they work first time every time with every sound source. Every time one of my bands has had a DI problem  it has been down to the DI boxes supplied by the PA and swapping them for one of ours has fixed it.

 

I don't have a problem with active DI boxes, but if they don't also offer the possibility of being powered from either an external PSU or internal batteries, there will be a time when they won't work.

[Chienmortbb]

I am going to agree with @BigRedX in most ways. First if you do not have control of FoH, choose either a passive  DI or active one that runs on battery. I use two of the Orchid Classic  DIs and they have either battery or phantom power options. 
 

I also use a DIY box using two budget😀Sowter transformers that were £45 each for guitars on occasion.  Those Sowters are great but will saturate at about +3dB. A good DI Tx will not Saturday till +25 dB but will cost an arm and a leg.  It is no fun being a one armed monopod. 
 

With regard to the EMO DIs, there were really well engineered and had a price tag to match. They would have had good quality transformers. Laterly the brand was bought by those rascals at Canford Audio and I have no knowledge. However looking at the specs of the current offerings, they will cover just about any eventually. https://www.canford.co.uk/EMO-PASSIVE-DIRECT-INJECTION-BOXES

 

Most of the “budget” DIs will have a transformer that cost about £3 retail and has bit a low saturation point and a poor LF response. Absolutely sh1te for bass or keyboards. Of course the way Keyboard 🎹 players sometimes like to take over out part of the spectrum that might be a good thing. 
 

A good DI transformer will set you back £50-70 from Sowter, Lundhal, Jensen or OEP. That plus a box, decent connectors and they labour suggests that anything passive under £100 should be approached with suspicion.