Mesa Boogie - UK Availability

[MOSCOWBASS]

The wd800 and d800+ are about the price I expected them to be, but the d350 is a bit pricey.

[agedhorse]

Costs have gone up for products built in the US, there’s no way around this fact. As a simple example, because the Euro is so strong the cost of ICEPower modules is higher in dollars. The only way to reduce costs is to use Chinese parts/materials and assemble in China which is not what we do.

 

If low cost is the priority, there are plenty of other options out there. That has never been our business model. 

[agedhorse]

21 minutes ago, MOSCOWBASS said:

The wd800 and d800+ are about the price I expected them to be, but the d350 is a bit pricey.

The D-350 is $800 here in the states, so it’s in reality less expensive in the EU when just the exchange rate and VAT are accounted for. 

[SimonK]

 

[MOSCOWBASS]

1 hour ago, agedhorse said:

The D-350 is $800 here in the states, so it’s in reality less expensive in the EU when just the exchange rate and VAT are accounted for. 

The wd800 is about 35% more expensive than Sweetwiter over here.

The d350 is about 43% more expensive than Sweetwiter over here.

Edited February 24 by MOSCOWBASS
Spelling Sweetwiter... won't allow me to change!

[agedhorse]

Sorry, I didn't see that the units were GBP and not Euros

 

Doing the same calculations:

 

Sweetwiter Subway D-350: $799 USD, no taxes included.

 

Andertons Subway D-350: with the exchange rate being 1.25 dollars to the GBP we have 799 x 1.25 = 999 GBP but your pricing includes 20% (per section 65 of the VAT act) so subtracting out the VAT we get 999/1.25 = 799 USD

 

So in reality, IMO, Gibson has remained extremely fair to our European customers by absorbing all of the costs of import taxes, customs and bonded warehouse fees and registrations themselves. 

 

Edited February 24 by agedhorse

[MOSCOWBASS]

799 dollars is 630 uk pounds.

On a lighter note, I see you have the "Sweetwiter" spelling issue too....lol!

[Wolverinebass]

I must admit, I concur about the 350W amp being "pricey." Whist, I accept that costs have gone up, I got the GK Fusion 1200 for £940 new. For something that has a quarter of the power, being almost the same price is laughable.

 

Mesa have now went full Warwick/Ernie Ball with their pricing thanks to Gibson. They are to be congratulated. Who, apart from well off people are going to buy this stuff? 

 

Oh, it's "aspirational" we are about to be told. No, that's crap. 800 quid for a 350w amp you'd be redlining the whole way through a gig (unless it's a jazz gig) is into the beyond of far off deep space exploration of justification for overpriced products.

 

Well done Gibson, that's something else you've ruined for us all.

[fretmeister]

I realise you are trying to avoid the issue, old equine chap, but £900 for a 350W  Class D amp is taking the piss no matter taxes and exchange rate are. I’m also aware you have no say in pricing, so this isn’t personal.

 

 Nobody gives a proverbial about anything other than how much folding has to be handed over to be able to take one home.  
 

It’s too expensive here, and in the EU, and in the USA. Geography and taxation are not the issues. 
 

Rightly or wrongly power is high on many buyers feature comparison lists. Combine that with Mesa’s absence from the market in EU and UK means your 350W is not looked at as a luxury product, it’s going to be looked at next to the lower powered Mark Bass, Ampeg, and Ashdown Class D stuff, and some of those are under £450!

 

Ampeg Venture V3 is £436. 

 

Yes, of course I know they are not assembled in the USA. But what American companies are seemingly unable to comprehend is that non Americans simply do not care about that.  Most of us won’t even notice country of assembly until we plug it in for the first time after we’ve bought it and taken it home.

 

[fretmeister]

£900 can buy a single underpowered head, that then requires spending out another £500 for a cab to go with it, or it can buy a 500W to 700W head AND a suitable cab to get out gigging straight away.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the Mesa 350W will last twice as long as the other options… but who is going to find out? All options will be well out of warranty by that point and then we’ll have Mesa spare part prices to look forward to. Unless Mesa have had another sabbatical from the UK and EU market again and we just can’t get them anyway.

[MOSCOWBASS]

I've had my d350 for about 18 months. It is very good and is no slouch in terms of volume and is so light and porrable. Ive used it for most gigs, the other choice being my d800. The build quality is top notch, better than any other ive seen. I got mine by chance from America, I paid 780 uk pounds including all taxes. I'm aware that's expensive, but it is very good.

I have ordered wd800, its now 1300 uk pounds, I think it was previously 1100 uk pounds before the covid sales ban, so that's not an unreasonable price rise.

[agedhorse]

42 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I realise you are trying to avoid the issue, old equine chap, but £900 for a 350W  Class D amp is taking the piss no matter taxes and exchange rate are. I’m also aware you have no say in pricing, so this isn’t personal.

 

 Nobody gives a proverbial about anything other than how much folding has to be handed over to be able to take one home.  
 

It’s too expensive here, and in the EU, and in the USA. Geography and taxation are not the issues. 
 

Rightly or wrongly power is high on many buyers feature comparison lists. Combine that with Mesa’s absence from the market in EU and UK means your 350W is not looked at as a luxury product, it’s going to be looked at next to the lower powered Mark Bass, Ampeg, and Ashdown Class D stuff, and some of those are under £450!

 

Ampeg Venture V3 is £436. 

 

Yes, of course I know they are not assembled in the USA. But what American companies are seemingly unable to comprehend is that non Americans simply do not care about that.  Most of us won’t even notice country of assembly until we plug it in for the first time after we’ve bought it and taken it home.

 

I'm not avoiding any issue, I read the comments as the products being too expensive in the EU/UK. We have never been a budget brand, nor have we ever pretended to be. The products are the same price there as here in the states unlike many other US brands which are often more expensive there than here.

 

If it's too expensive for you, then USA built Mesa equipment is just not the right choice, that's fine. What about equipment that's actually built in the EU from major components sourced from the EU, or if that's more expensive is cost still the most important criteria?

 

IMO, what the world doesn't quite grasp yet, is what happens when you absolutely need critical products and they CAN'T be purchased from overseas sources. That's what happens when manufacturing leaves currently "friendly regions" in the quest for lowest cost. Friendly regions change all the time, it's happened before it's happening now and is likely to happen again (and again, and again). This is why we should have all paid attention in history classes.

 

I took a unique class in industrial history, studying manufacturing of critical components and equipment during wartime and the reconstruction of agriculture, infrastructure and manufacturing after war. It's a sobering subject, I would think those of you in the UK and EU would be both familiar with and sensitive to the risks of outsourcing in general. 

 

[edited for clarity and autocorrect gone wrong]

Edited February 24 by agedhorse

[Wolverinebass]

@agedhorse, if it were 800 quid for an 800w amp, thats okay. For something that is so ludicrously low powered, er, no.

 

Mesa isn't a budget brand and that's never been the case. I've never tried a Mesa amp I didn't like, so I have no axe to grind as regards the quality of the products you're selling.

 

You asked what people's criteria is for choosing. Mine is probably quite similar to most people's: "Not getting price gouged."

 

Nobody that isn't American gives a toss if the product is made in America. People care about virtually everything else though. Pricing, value for money, treatment of staff etc.

 

Whilst the whole sourcing of parts is I'm sure no doubt a problem, the fact that you're having to justify the pricing maybe says something in itself about the misjudging of the perceived acceptability of it? Rightly or wrongly.

[fretmeister]

I never said cost is the most important criteria. But value for that cost is. A 20K item can have excellent value for money, and a £1 item may not.

 

That's the thing - I am your target demographic. I'm an over 50 professional.

 

I have been a keen purchaser of Mesa products in the past. I'm a sucker for various models of the Rectifier guitar amps. I've had 4 or 5 of them over the years.

But they are no longer acceptable value.

 

I got my most recent Dual Rec Reborn Multiwatt used for £1000 when they were in the shops at £3000.

 

Somebody took a £2000 depreciation beating there. They aren't thinking it was good value for money either, no matter how much of a well built luxury product it is.

 

 

[agedhorse]

20 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

@agedhorse, if it were 800 quid for an 800w amp, thats okay. For something that is so ludicrously low powered, er, no.

 

Mesa isn't a budget brand and that's never been the case. I've never tried a Mesa amp I didn't like, so I have no axe to grind as regards the quality of the products you're selling.

 

You asked what people's criteria is for choosing. Mine is probably quite similar to most people's: "Not getting price gouged."

 

Nobody that isn't American gives a toss if the product is made in America. People care about virtually everything else though. Pricing, value for money, treatment of staff etc.

 

Whilst the whole sourcing of parts is I'm sure no doubt a problem, the fact that you're having to justify the pricing maybe says something in itself about the misjudging of the perceived acceptability of it? Rightly or wrongly.

So for you, buying UK manufactured goods isn't important anymore? Are there any bass amps actually manufactured in the UK anymore (not just packaged from an off-shore supplier)?

 

I'm simply explaining why our products cost what they do. I really don't care if our amps don't work for you, there are plenty of other more budget appropriate products to choose from. It really is a great time to be a bass player.

[agedhorse]

21 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I never said cost is the most important criteria. But value for that cost is. A 20K item can have excellent value for money, and a £1 item may not.

 

That's the thing - I am your target demographic. I'm an over 50 professional.

 

I have been a keen purchaser of Mesa products in the past. I'm a sucker for various models of the Rectifier guitar amps. I've had 4 or 5 of them over the years.

But they are no longer acceptable value.

 

I got my most recent Dual Rec Reborn Multiwatt used for £1000 when they were in the shops at £3000.

 

Somebody took a £2000 depreciation beating there. They aren't thinking it was good value for money either, no matter how much of a well built luxury product it is.

 

 

Well, if they aren't an acceptable value for you, the obvious choice is not to buy them. That's fine, there are plenty of other good choices.

[3below]

So many geo-political and socio-economic issues emerge in this thread.  I really like USA kit (and UK /EU made kit), buying it keeps jobs here (or in the USA), I have done my bit   for the USA. Even better when the sub assemblies (e.g. power modules) are locally made. However there is not much of a power semi-conductor or valve (Tube) manufacturing capability left in the UK though.  As a hard pressed consumer the relentless cost efficiency of Chima / East Asian manufacture is a no brainer.  I get to buy cheap high quality kit, at what long term cost though.   Employment is reduced and the supply chain is dependent on others - political blockading? disruption?, parking a ship anyone?.   @agedhorse your earlier post is on the money in so many ways.  We  can't have our cake and eat it.

Edited February 24 by 3below

[Wolverinebass]

5 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

So for you, buying UK manufactured goods isn't important anymore? Are there any bass amps actually manufactured in the UK anymore (not just packaged from an off-shore supplier)?

 

I'm simply explaining why our products cost what they do. I really don't care if our amps don't work for you, there are plenty of other more budget appropriate products to choose from. It really is a great time to be a bass player.

No, it's not massively important to me if the amps are made in the UK. In fact, the last 3 amps I've owned have actually been from American companies. I think some of Ashdown's ABM range is still made in the UK, but I find that range a bit heavy, so there's another thing to consider as a factor.

 

I actually considered Mesa when I bought my GK and at the time, the prices weren't so far away from each other. I felt the GK did what I wanted better, so I bought that.

 

Value for money is of course down to the purchaser of course. By whatever pricing, feature or arbitrary comparator they wish to use to decide. 

[Acebassmusic]

I've always thought from articles I've read that Mesa gear was ranked in the upper echelons of amps for both sound and quality. For full disclosure I've never played through one of their bass amps or even seen one in the flesh so can't vouch for them personally. However, looking at other amps of similar specs, such as the Berg Forte which goes for £1200 in the UK, the Mesa D800+ price doesnt seem too far off the mark. As others have said the price of the D-350 does seem a bit spicy compared to other offerings in the marketplace. I'm sure Mesa have done their market research but I can't see who would be buying the D-350 in any quantity: pro-player would probably want/need the higher power, dentist / lawyer would want the highest spec/power 🤣 and weekend warriors like myself would most likely want the extra grunt just 'cos we like being noisy! 🤣

 

For a while now I've had on my gas list to try the D-800 (which strangely isnt shown on the GG pre-order page GG-Mesa 🤔) Has it been discontinued as the Mesa page still has it available?

Edited February 25 by Acebassmusic

[agedhorse]

2 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

I've always thought from articles I've read that Mesa gear was ranked in the upper echelons of amps for both sound and quality. For full disclosure I've never played through one of their bass amps or even seen one in the flesh so can't vouch for them personally. However, looking at other amps of similar specs, such as the Berg Forte which goes for £1200 in the UK, the Mesa D800+ price doesnt seem too far off the mark. As others have said the price of the D-350 does seem a bit spicy compared to other offerings in the marketplace. I'm sure Mesa have done their market research but I can't see who would be buying the D-350 in any quantity: pro-player would probably want/need the higher power, dentist / lawyer would want the highest spec/power 🤣 and weekend warriors like myself would most likely want the extra grunt just 'cos we like being noisy! 🤣

 

For a while now I've had on my gas list to try the D-800 (which strangely isnt shown on the GG pre-order page GG-Mesa 🤔) Has it been discontinued as the Mesa page still has it available?

The D-800 is still a current product. I don't know why it's not there, but maybe because the container that contains those amps hasn't arrived yet. 

[thodrik]

In terms of prices the absolute top of the line Mesa bass head is now just under £1600.

 

The M-Pulse lines were considerably more expensive than the current Mesa amps about 10-15 years ago. In terms of D-350 being expensive at £800, in about 2009 the 300 watt Walkabout was about £1300 for the head and about £1600 for the 1x15combo. The M3 Carbine 300 watt amps from a decade ago were also more expensive than the D-350. Essentially Mesa bass amps are more affordable than they used to be.

 

Granted the designs are entirely different and class D amps are generally more cost effective to make (and ship) than the older amps. However I don’t really have an issue with the pricing mainly because this is not a new development. Mesa have always been more expensive to buy in the UK. This isn’t a new development or some master plan by Gibson. 

 

The products really are high quality though and are generally built to last. I bought a new Walkabout 1x15 combo in 2009 and it still works perfectly after hundreds of gigs and sessions.

[itu]

Just a sidestep: years ago I was playing a small tour in Switzerland. Salzhaus promised to rent all equipment our band needed. My set was an old 4x10, and that fab Mesa 400+! That is one powerful and well behaving amp. It is still pretty expensive, but the glow of the tubes and sound it produces... I am using a solid state Glockenklang Soul, because it weighs much less.

[Acebassmusic]

6 hours ago, agedhorse said:

The D-800 is still a current product. I don't know why it's not there, but maybe because the container that contains those amps hasn't arrived yet. 

Thanks @agedhorse......thats good news for me......bad news for my wallet! 🤣

[SimonK]

...doesn't the tour of the Gibson store kind of show the marketing direction? Both Gibson and Mesa are premium brands aimed at bankers not gigging musicians. They have turned into PRS from twenty years ago.

[agedhorse]

2 hours ago, SimonK said:

...doesn't the tour of the Gibson store kind of show the marketing direction? Both Gibson and Mesa are premium brands aimed at bankers not gigging musicians. They have turned into PRS from twenty years ago.

Except that the Mesa Subway bass amps are targeted towards gigging players. There are a lot of them out on the road gigging night after night.