Mesa Boogie - UK Availability

[SimonK]

1 hour ago, agedhorse said:

Except that the Mesa Subway bass amps are targeted towards gigging players. There are a lot of them out on the road gigging night after night. 

 

My suspicion is that there is an element of national loyalty there - for players in the US buying Mesa or Gibson is supporting their own manufacturing, whereas in the UK we might select other brands and see no need for the markup inherent to a "US" made item.

 

As others have said above, and distinctly the impression I get from the Gibson Garage video, these now feel like brands that you buy once you've received your Christmas six figure bonus, perhaps popping into the Gibson Garage on your way back from the Porsche garage...

[agedhorse]

50 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

My suspicion is that there is an element of national loyalty there - for players in the US buying Mesa or Gibson is supporting their own manufacturing, whereas in the UK we might select other brands and see no need for the markup inherent to a "US" made item.

 

As others have said above, and distinctly the impression I get from the Gibson Garage video, these now feel like brands that you buy once you've received your Christmas six figure bonus, perhaps popping into the Gibson Garage on your way back from the Porsche garage...

What doesn't make sense to me is that it doesn't seem to be national loyalty because I'm hearing that in Europe there doesn't seem to be any concern for where a product comes from as long as it's cheaper. This implies that there is no national loyalty... either to USA manufactured products or those manufactured in their home region. 

[Beedster]

9 hours ago, thodrik said:

In terms of prices the absolute top of the line Mesa bass head is now just under £1600.

 

The M-Pulse lines were considerably more expensive than the current Mesa amps about 10-15 years ago. In terms of D-350 being expensive at £800, in about 2009 the 300 watt Walkabout was about £1300 for the head and about £1600 for the 1x15combo. The M3 Carbine 300 watt amps from a decade ago were also more expensive than the D-350. Essentially Mesa bass amps are more affordable than they used to be.

 

Granted the designs are entirely different and class D amps are generally more cost effective to make (and ship) than the older amps. However I don’t really have an issue with the pricing mainly because this is not a new development. Mesa have always been more expensive to buy in the UK. This isn’t a new development or some master plan by Gibson. 

 

The products really are high quality though and are generally built to last. I bought a new Walkabout 1x15 combo in 2009 and it still works perfectly after hundreds of gigs and sessions.

 

+100

 

For those of you who appear to be poking at @agedhorse about pricing of Mesa gear CHECK OUT THE PRICES OF EVERYTHING AT THE MOMENT, basses especially, the prices of which are becoming farcical.

 

I paid £1200 USED for my first M-Pulse 600 head in 2010 and IIRC around £800 for my first used (300w) Walkabout head a couple of years earlier. New prices were significantly higher at the time. And they were worth every penny in terms of tone, functionality, and reliability, as are the latest range. When you buy Mesa, and in the context of the price of competing gear at the time, you get what you're paying for 👍

[Steve Browning]

Couldn't agree more. I have always bought my Mesa amps because they have been exceptional. 

 

I may be a Mesa artist now, but only my TT-800 amps have been bought that way. 

 

Of course it's always subjective but I have a spent a good amount of cash on a Boogie amp, but just once. 

 

In the last 35 years I have basically used 3 amps. I reckon I've spent far less than others have, chopping and changing.

[SimonK]

3 hours ago, agedhorse said:

What doesn't make sense to me is that it doesn't seem to be national loyalty because I'm hearing that in Europe there doesn't seem to be any concern for where a product comes from as long as it's cheaper. This implies that there is no national loyalty... either to USA manufactured products or those manufactured in their home region. 

 

I don't think that is what people are saying, more "value for money" is more important than brand or where somethings was made. Which of course opens up a can of worms when it comes to musical gear/instruments given how hard the major brands absolutely try to make it about name and place of manufacture.

 

I think for some of us there is also a level of disappointment, perhaps wanting to try the new Mesa products but realising they are out of reach even for someone on a pretty decent salary for whom music is a hobby that needs to fit in with other priorities. Similarly I can't imagine many teenage or younger musicians playing Mesa products.

[Beedster]

51 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

I don't think that is what people are saying, more "value for money" is more important than brand or where somethings was made. Which of course opens up a can of worms when it comes to musical gear/instruments given how hard the major brands absolutely try to make it about name and place of manufacture.

 

I think for some of us there is also a level of disappointment, perhaps wanting to try the new Mesa products but realising they are out of reach even for someone on a pretty decent salary for whom music is a hobby that needs to fit in with other priorities. Similarly I can't imagine many teenage or younger musicians playing Mesa products.

Why disappointment, Mesa are relatively no more expensive now than they’ve ever been? Perhaps you’re disappointed that they’ve not - like other brands - outsourced a significant percentage of their production to poorer facilities using poorer components to keep prices low? But that’s why Mesa will retain their market status while others fall behind 

[BillyBass]

@Wolverinebass, if you got a GK Fusion 1200 for a little over £900 the you got it heavily discounted, probably from Polar Audio.  New from Andertons, these have a price tag comparable to the Mesa kit.  Though I do accept the 350 watt Mesa doesn’t seem good value compared the higher powered kit.

 

For me personally, that kit is made In the U.S. or the U.K. is a plus point.  I know the parts will have been sourced from a variety of countries but if a good percentage is not from China and the product has been assembled and tested in the U.S. or U.K. I would be happy to pay a premium.  But that is just me.

[Wolverinebass]

5 hours ago, BillyBass said:

@Wolverinebass, if you got a GK Fusion 1200 for a little over £900 the you got it heavily discounted, probably from Polar Audio.  New from Andertons, these have a price tag comparable to the Mesa kit.  Though I do accept the 350 watt Mesa doesn’t seem good value compared the higher powered kit.

 

For me personally, that kit is made In the U.S. or the U.K. is a plus point.  I know the parts will have been sourced from a variety of countries but if a good percentage is not from China and the product has been assembled and tested in the U.S. or U.K. I would be happy to pay a premium.  But that is just me.

The GK Fusion was £949 from Thomann. It was new, not B-stock and believe it or not, was cheaper than Polar Audio! I still don't quite know how I got away with that. 

 

The irony was that everywhere in the UK was selling the 800 version for about that price with the 1200 version about 200 quid more.

[BillyBass]

22 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

The GK Fusion was £949 from Thomann. It was new, not B-stock and believe it or not, was cheaper than Polar Audio! I still don't quite know how I got away with that. 

 

The irony was that everywhere in the UK was selling the 800 version for about that price with the 1200 version about 200 quid more.

Congrats on your luck!  Every now and again Thomann sell off stuff at a huge discount, which, I'm sure, makes economic sense to the company.  

 

My Fusion 1200 was 2nd hand from here, bought originally from Polar Audio and my Legacy 800 was new from Polar audio.  I'm well happy I bought the stuff cheap but I probably would still pay Andertons prices if I had to because I love the GK sound.  

[cacio]

About 10 years ago I blow a speaker of my Powerhouse 2x10.Mesa won't sell me directly the speaker(if i remember it was 100 dollars), and here in Italy the distributors ask me 400 euro.I repeat,400 euro for one 10" speaker.
So no more Mesa for me,it's not all about the cost but customer care is also very important

As for the price today I think that they are too much for what they offer,but Aguilar is the same.

We just look around,the are many other companies that made good bass amps

 

[agedhorse]

When it comes to replacement parts, if the distributor holds the import license and is ultimately responsible for following the import laws of the region, they are the ones who set the terms of the business in the region, not Mesa. 
 

In the case of Italy (and later with the EU) as an example, since there was a registered (with the government) importer of record. This is the entity responsible for following the import laws and also set the prices they charge and the terms of service. They are independent of Mesa, they are local to your region, we have no real control over them or the prices they charge other than discontinuing our relationship with them once the contract term expires (which I believe we ultimately did). This is one disadvantage to using distributors, but going forward we will be distributing through our parent company Gibson-Europe so we will have more control over both distribution and service terms. 

[Musicman20]

I'd class these two as 'top of their game':

 

1.

 

Bergantino Forte HP2 Bass Amplifier - Bass Direct 

 

https://www.bassdirect.co.uk/product/bergantino-forte-hp2-bass-amplifier/

 

2.

 

Mesa Boogie Subway TT-800 - Andertons Music Co.

 

https://www.andertons.co.uk/mesa-boogie/mesa-boogie-subway-tt-800

 

 

If I ever move on my Genz Benz/TC amps or fancy a change, I'll be sure to choose one of those.

 

Compared to guitar amp pricing now, we have it pretty easy!

 

I understand the issue with Gibson and the crazy price jumps, so I understand why people might not be happy, but for once I'm pretty sure £1550 ish seems fair for the top of the line USA made product.

Edited February 27 by Musicman20

[SimonK]

So I have been reflecting on this thread, and perhaps another thing that has irritated/bemused me is the distinct shift in marketing strategy as represented by the Gibson Garage, and I appreciate a couple other big brands have done likewise.

 

We all know and love the higgeldy-piggeldy music shops with eccentric staff and the person in the corner playing stairway to heaven/smoke on the water. Granted Thomann, Guitar Centre, Andertons etc. have become behemouths, but they are still a natural evolution of the little shops dotted around the country/world.

 

But the Gibson Garage seems to be a different type of thing - marketing high end equipment to wealthy, often older, people. Obviously there is money to be made in that market, but it feels a long way from traditional music stores and gigs in dodgy pubs with punters knocking people unconscious while spilling their beer into the mixing desk*. I think the worry is that if brands start focussing on this high end status seeking customer there is less for the majority of the rest of us who keep the music scene alive.

 

*story for another time

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, SimonK said:

So I have been reflecting on this thread, and perhaps another thing that has irritated/bemused me is the distinct shift in marketing strategy as represented by the Gibson Garage, and I appreciate a couple other big brands have done likewise.

 

We all know and love the higgeldy-piggeldy music shops with eccentric staff and the person in the corner playing stairway to heaven/smoke on the water. Granted Thomann, Guitar Centre, Andertons etc. have become behemouths, but they are still a natural evolution of the little shops dotted around the country/world.

 

But the Gibson Garage seems to be a different type of thing - marketing high end equipment to wealthy, often older, people. Obviously there is money to be made in that market, but it feels a long way from traditional music stores and gigs in dodgy pubs with punters knocking people unconscious while spilling their beer into the mixing desk*. I think the worry is that if brands start focussing on this high end status seeking customer there is less for the majority of the rest of us who keep the music scene alive.

 

*story for another time

 

It's been that way a long time across so many retail sectors, cars, clothing, furniture, it was only a matter of time before it hit music, and in fact has been there a while with some music brands e.g., the Yamaha store in the West End. But why is a brand store selling to the wealthy while Thomann are not? You can spend some serious cash in Thomann et al? Music is, and always has been an expensive game

 

And that's part of the problem, like you we all miss the local music store, but they went under for a reason, we all wanted more choice and lower prices.......

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, agedhorse said:

In the case of Italy (and later with the EU) as an example, since there was a registered (with the government) importer of record. This is the entity responsible for following the import laws and also set the prices they charge and the terms of service. They are independent of Mesa, they are local to your region, we have no real control over them or the prices they charge other than discontinuing our relationship with them once the contract term expires (which I believe we ultimately did). This is one disadvantage to using distributors, but going forward we will be distributing through our parent company Gibson-Europe so we will have more control over both distribution and service terms. 

 

Tech21 said something similar on here a few years ago when an amp they were selling was $1800 in the US (roughly £1300) and the UK distributor was pricing it at £2500.

 

I pointed out (just as you have) that you could just not work with them as surely there would be reputational and brand damage caused by certain territories being "exploited" shall we say. I appreciate that they've got contracts etc. so it's not as easy as just saying it.

 

However, that being said, Mesa have managed to sort out things so folk only have one calling point for spares/repairs which can only be a good thing rather than going through middlemen.

 

[cacio]

6 hours ago, agedhorse said:

When it comes to replacement parts, if the distributor holds the import license and is ultimately responsible for following the import laws of the region, they are the ones who set the terms of the business in the region, not Mesa. 
 

In the case of Italy (and later with the EU) as an example, since there was a registered (with the government) importer of record. This is the entity responsible for following the import laws and also set the prices they charge and the terms of service. They are independent of Mesa, they are local to your region, we have no real control over them or the prices they charge other than discontinuing our relationship with them once the contract term expires (which I believe we ultimately did). This is one disadvantage to using distributors, but going forward we will be distributing through our parent company Gibson-Europe so we will have more control over both distribution and service terms. 

Well,for me its up to Mesa.They choose their distributors,and or They don’t look what they’re doing or for mesa was just ok

In my work if i choose a bad distributor i know i’ll loose customers

When we were searching for an USA distributor,for exemple, we did know that the way it will work will be a good or bad for our reputation to customers 

Even if we don’t sell directly outside Italy,we are responsible for our customers around the world 

Edited February 27 by cacio

[agedhorse]

2 hours ago, cacio said:

Well,for me its up to Mesa.They choose their distributors,and or They don’t look what they’re doing or for mesa was just ok

In my work if i choose a bad distributor i know i’ll loose customers

When we were searching for an USA distributor,for exemple, we did know that the way it will work will be a good or bad for our reputation to customers 

Even if we don’t sell directly outside Italy,we are responsible for our customers around the world 

It certainly didn't start out that way, but when a distributor changes their tune and takes advantage of a customer in their region, the laws of the host country do not really allow the manufacturer to step in because of the required arms length relationship between the manufacturer (who acts as a supplier) to the distributor of record (who acts as the in country legal representative of the manufacturer, who sets the terms of sale and service in that region). 

 

It's not a good way to do international business unless both parties work together and not against each other. Unfortunately, when the relationship deteriorates, the laws of the host country limit what the manufacturer can do about it, and even the ability of a manufacturer to terminate the relationship before the agreement ends. Either way, I agree that it's bad for the customer for sure. 

[Kiwi]

On 26/02/2024 at 02:25, Beedster said:

CHECK OUT THE PRICES OF EVERYTHING AT THE MOMENT, basses especially, the prices of which are becoming farcical.

 

£8000 for a Warwick Thumb NT now. 

I have a few bits of Mesa guitar kit at home, and the Bass 400+ is the best valve bass amp I have ever owned.  They made some utterly fantastic kit in the nineties.

But check out the manouverings of Ernie Ball, Warwick and a few other brands this year.   They have spent the last ten years cultivating a fan base in the US and leveraged on that to support sales internationally.  Helped to no small degree by lump sum pension pots being made available within their customer fan base.  This isn't really about demand and supply as it is about goose, gullibility and raiding golden (nest) eggs.

 

I owned three Smith basses in the mid to late noughties.  I owned three Celinders.  I owned four Musicman Cutlass basses and I still have an Alembic.  I have given up any hope of being able to owning a halo model from a boutique builder now.  In some ways I'm OK with that because I don't really have GAS any more and my tastes have become very specific.  But in China there are some very nice imported brands available second hand for about 20% less than they might get in the US or Europe.  Ernie Ball, looking at you in particular with £800 for a nineties SR5.  Or PRS with £1200-1500 for a core Custom 24.

Dingwall seem to be one of the few manufacturers who have retained any degree of self control on prices. 

 

 

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Kiwi said:

£8000 for a Warwick Thumb NT now. 

I have a few bits of Mesa guitar kit at home, and the Bass 400+ is the best valve bass amp I have ever owned.  They made some utterly fantastic kit in the nineties.

But check out the manouverings of Ernie Ball, Warwick and a few other brands this year.   They have spent the last ten years cultivating a fan base in the US and leveraged on that to support sales internationally.  Helped to no small degree by lump sum pension pots being made available within their customer fan base.  This isn't really about demand and supply as it is about goose, gullibility and raiding golden (nest) eggs.

 

I owned three Smith basses in the mid to late noughties.  I owned three Celinders.  I owned four Musicman Cutlass basses and I still have an Alembic.  I have given up any hope of being able to owning a halo model from a boutique builder now.  In some ways I'm OK with that because I don't really have GAS any more and my tastes have become very specific.  But in China there are some very nice imported brands available second hand for about 20% less than they might get in the US or Europe.  Ernie Ball, looking at you in particular with £800 for a nineties SR5.  Or PRS with £1200-1500 for a core Custom 24.

Dingwall seem to be one of the few manufacturers who have retained any degree of self control on prices. 

 

 

Very well put @Kiwi 👍

[Minininjarob]

I am bewildered as to why someone would pay extra for something made in the USA. It’s hardly a guarantee of quality. 

[Steve Browning]

53 minutes ago, Minininjarob said:

I am bewildered as to why someone would pay extra for something made in the USA. It’s hardly a guarantee of quality. 

 

It's not a 'guarantee' of quality, but the Mesa name is (IMHO). I confess I've not used every make of amp there is, but it's head, shoulders, chest, groin area, hips. knees and ankles above those that I have.

Edited March 1 by Steve Browning

[BillyBass]

2 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

I am bewildered as to why someone would pay extra for something made in the USA. It’s hardly a guarantee of quality. 

I suppose if your experience of, for example, Chinese made kit is all positive then I would understand your point of view.  My experience of Chinese built stuff isn't all positive. 

 

I have never visited a factory where bass kit is made, I know very little about quality control in any place of manufacture and, no doubt, every different factory in China will have different quality control standards.  I perceive, rightly or wrongly, that stuff checked, made, assembled, or a combination of those, in the west will likely be better.  So I am happy to pay a premium.  20% extra for something I feel condfident isn't going to fail the day after the warranty expires isn't bad value.

[Beedster]

2 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

I am bewildered as to why someone would pay extra for something made in the USA. It’s hardly a guarantee of quality. 

 

I prefer my gear to be over-engineered to under-engineered, OK there may be a price premium but the functional reliability and structural integrity that comes with it is worth that premium. Ever tried breaking a Mesa cab, we dropped a 1516 during the load out a few years back, and I still laugh recalling the singer's "Oh shit mate, I think it broke your car" 

 

[Minininjarob]

2 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

 

It's not a 'guarantee' of quality, but the Mesa name is (IMHO). I confess I've not used every make of amp there is, but it's head, shoulders, chest, groin area, hips. knees and ankles above those that I have.

That’s the point. I come from the very brand orientated world of cycling - MTB mostly - where the lore on where (and who) the products were made was very well ingrained. People rubbished Far Eastern made frames in particular. But after a while we found out that the manufacturers in the far East made exactly what you wanted to whatever quality you needed, as long as you were willing to pay for the quality. 
So really it’s the backup from the manufacturer that makes the difference, and value of the product in the first place. I don’t know how well Mesa look after their customers (and don’t just say “well no one ever gets and issue” - it’s happens with any product) but the value doesn’t seem great and the manufacturer is way over the ocean. Where are the authorised dealers and repair places that you can go and get these amps fixed under warranty? Maybe the extra cost is worth it, I don’t know, but I know for sure here in the UK a large chuck of the price goes to import taxes and VAT/transatlantic shipping costs which don’t have any bearing on the  quality of the product. 
I think if I had that sort of money I’d take a short 3 mile drive to Matamp and see how they could fulfill my needs. But that’s just me. 

[Daz39]

4 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

I am bewildered as to why someone would pay extra for something made in the USA. It’s hardly a guarantee of quality. 

it's a (mis)perception of quality (in some cases - I'm not for a second doubting Mesa are quality-kit) - but mainly a statement of patriotism. The US is a very patriotic sort of place. The 'regular, down-to-earth' citizen stands for the Anthem before ball games at their kids' little league, and probably has a modest-sized US flag hanging from their porch. They don't have attacks of existential dread about St Georges Day and whether we ought to encourage or discourage patriotism (just not too much, and especially not at football matches). They can be embarrassed about all sorts of things their Nation has done in the past (or present) yet still remain proud to be American and the not be afraid to show it. We're just more reserved and think it's weird