Mesa Boogie - UK Availability

[Minininjarob]

10 hours ago, tobiewharton said:

Interesting thread...

Forums like BC are such a great source of many things, from bon homie to amusing belligerence, and I'm sure we're all partial to the full gamut from time to time. 

This particular one irks me -

These amps and cabs? Not on your nelly! I like Mesa stuff but these are priced out of the market for the majority of players. I earn good money from music and there isn't a world where I'd shell out for these products over, say, GK's offerings.

I couldn't give two hoots where things are made per se, as long as the product, buyer experience and aftercare are fit for purpose. On the contrary, if I feel like I'm being taken the piss out of it leaves a sour taste, regardless of some superiority delusion masquerading as 'provenance'.

Of course this is all my opinion, but it's not lost on me that I am in the relatively unusual position of having the funds and work to justify considering equipment that is towards the pricier end of retail. These are beyond that and yet are not a luxury; luxury is commissioning a build with a craftsman (like Jon Shuker for example, whose skill, time and flexibility add a unique and personal value), not preordering on Anderton's. 

100% agree and I’m glad someone with a lot more experience has put it more eloquently than I could. 
Think I might ask a friend who owns a successful backline rental business what his opinion is. I know he hasn’t any MB stuff to hire and I’ll ask him why. 

[Minininjarob]

7 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

If something is unique and offers something others do not, some people will buy them and there is nothing wrong with that. 
 

The Mesa Amps that @agedhorse designs are fully featured, arguably better featured than any others. I would love to try one but I cannot justify the expense. As a weekend warrior, it would take a year to earn enough to pay for one. I could afford one, who needs a funeral fund anyway? However I will not. 
 

As a big RHCP fan I stupidly thought that I needed a GK rig. I flipped in in less than a month as I could not get on with it. 
 

Everyone’s opinion is valid but if someone none is happy to pay for a Mesa, so be it. 
 

Finally, it is rare for a manufacturer's representative to post on BC and @agedhorse often adds wisdom and clarity to the discussion about amplification, with years of experience to back it up. I am glad he is willing to post on here. 

I don’t get this fawning over a company rep talking about the products. While probably more experienced than I he/she will be biased towards that product, especially the new ones they want to sell. That’s natural and there is nothing wrong with it but it has to be taken into consideration. 
 

And the line “maybe these aren’t for you then” from the rep when someone says something negative is incredibly condescending and leaves a sour taste. I have seen this exact line trotted out by many companies in different walks of life (cycling, autos which I have both been heavily involved in) and it’s always to describe things which are overpriced for what they offer. I don’t know if it’s a USA thing but to me it sounds like “you are too poor or too stupid to own our stuff”. 

[Salt on your Bass?]

I don't think the prices are out of touch with the market though... 

TT is priced equivalent to the berg forte HP2

WD is priced equivalent to the GK fusion (appreciate this isn't a class D amp)/forte D

D800+ is similar in price to the DG alpha Omicron

 

There are cheaper amps out there though....costs everywhere are increasing and whether the product presents value or not is down to the player.

 

I remain interested in the amps based on my previous experiences with mesa, but I need to try them in anger as I've always struggled with class D. 

 

Be cool if any users can drop thoughts and experiences in here anyway....or maybe another thread. ✌️

Edited April 7 by Salt on your Bass?

[Al Krow]

@Salt on your Bass? - my personal experience is I've loved my Mesa M6 amp - its put every other D class amp I've had to shame and it's clearly a quality product, although it's a hybrid class A/B rather than class D, I believe.

 

It's actually just been taken off my hands, as I'm no longer using backline for gigs these days, by a pro bass player for a very decent price (£900 plus P&P), which is not too shabby for an, albeit well looked after, 10 year old amp I bought back in 2014 and have used pretty much every day since - its value no doubt helped by the current scarcity of supply in the UK.

 

On the price point discussion: there's plenty of stuff that's not going to be in any particular individual's price range - I'd love a Wal bass, but I'm not forking out £5k+ for one! You could well argue that a Harley Benton does the job equally well and, in the right hands, it likely does. But surely that's not the point? 

 

Edited April 7 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

I don’t get this fawning over a company rep talking about the products.

 

But he isn't here as a company rep talking about the products, in general he is here as someone talking about amps and amp design in many threads with some valuable insight. Obviously if people start talking about the amps that the company he works for he is going to talk about that too, but that doesn't make him a company rep.

 

 

2 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

And the line “maybe these aren’t for you then” from the rep when someone says something negative is incredibly condescending and leaves a sour taste. 

 

Really? There is nothing at all condescending in that that I can see, it appears to be a statement of fact. Like people drive round in Range Rovers and go on about them, and I don't get it, so the only valid answer to that is that maybe they aren't for me, which doesn't make them idiots, it just means it is not my thing. Some people spend thousands on a fender P bass, when you can get one for a couple of hundred, I have tried both and the only valid answer to that is maybe they aren't for me.

Just because something offends you, doesn't mean it is offensive. 

[Ed_S]

I paid £749 for my D800 when they'd not been out long and there was a bit of hype surrounding them (Jan 2016 according to the email I just found - amp is around s/n 700 from memory) and I remember it seeming a bit premium but not unexpectedly so for the Mesa name. The online bank calculator thingy tells me that would be £985 today, so given the price of everything at the moment, £1149 doesn't seem all that much of a hike.

 

Sadly I can't offer a lot by way of a review; I used it a couple of times to make sure it worked, but then it ended up in storage and has been there for the last 8 years. I've kept hold of it because it's the only amp I've got that claims to be happy at 2ohms, and the circumstances of its design and manufacture let me believe that it probably won't cook itself if I ask it to try. Now there's some more hype surrounding them I should probably get it back out and see what I think the second time around.

[SimonK]

I think, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, what is interesting about the return of Mesa is that it has been very much tied into the Gibson Garage launch, which marks a distinct shift in marketing strategy by positioning both Gibson and Mesa as explicit high end "lifestyle" brands. Now granted this isn't entirely new - PRS has been accused of creating "doctor & dentist" guitars for years - but this does seem to be an explicit attempt by two more brands to gain in-roads into a specific retail sector which, as many have commented here, is not necessarily gigging musicians.

 

To be fair there's no reason why they shouldn't do this - but it is interesting to see. Also it doesn't mean these amps aren't good - I'm sure they are wonderful - but I do hope they come with a duster and advice as to which furniture polish may stain the finish!

[Steve Browning]

I remember a wise man saying "Jeez, it's about preference". Remember saying that Tobie?

[tobiewharton]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

I remember a wise man saying "Jeez, it's about preference". Remember saying that Tobie?

It certainly is! IIRC that was in reference to songs people dislike? Equally true for gear of course.

However, the suggestion here is that Mesa may no longer represent what it once did; a competitive choice for gigging musicians. 22 hundred quid for a 4x10? IMO that is pie in the sky. What I find irksome is the apparent disingenuousness of putting this purely down to market forces, with no acknowledgement of the effect of marketing strategies. Everyone can prefer what they choose but I won't be convinced that these offer value for money for the vast majority of players. It's a shame for me - I like the gear 👍🏻

[agedhorse]

There was absolutely nothing condescending intended about a product not being a good fit for a particular player. It may be the price, the size, the weight, the tone, the dynamics, the cosmetics, etc. 

 

If anything, I would be the first one to agree with different amps or different brands for different players. I don’t understand why anyone would argue otherwise?

[SimonK]

3 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

There was absolutely nothing condescending intended about a product not being a good fit for a particular player. It may be the price, the size, the weight, the tone, the dynamics, the cosmetics, etc. 

 

If anything, I would be the first one to agree with different amps or different brands for different players. I don’t understand why anyone would argue otherwise?

 

For the record I totally agree - but what I (personally) am commenting on is a specific marketing shift with the whole Gibson Garage lifestyle brand approach that seems to be a bit different. Yes PRS (certainly the US made guitars) has had that lifestyle image for years, but there does seem to be deliberate attempt from Gibson/Mesa to move into that very high end bankers/doctors etc. market - but again no reason why not to - just interesting to see the strategy!

[agedhorse]

I don’t know much about the whole lifestyle thing, and I would not be a lifestyle product customer myself.

 

On the bass side of things, the Subway amps are pretty much in line with the costs of other non-Chinese built, premium products. 

[tobiewharton]

27 minutes ago, agedhorse said:

I don’t know much about the whole lifestyle thing, and I would not be a lifestyle product customer myself.

 

On the bass side of things, the Subway amps are pretty much in line with the costs of other non-Chinese built, premium products. 

Am I missing something here? Anderton's has the Subway D-350 at £900 and the GK Legacy 800 at £850? The Subway D-800+ is £1250 from the same retailer. 

[Downunderwonder]

On 06/04/2024 at 10:58, tobiewharton said:

Interesting thread...

Forums like BC are such a great source of many things, from bon homie to amusing belligerence, and I'm sure we're all partial to the full gamut from time to time. 

This particular one irks me -

These amps and cabs? Not on your nelly! I like Mesa stuff but these are priced out of the market for the majority of players. I earn good money from music and there isn't a world where I'd shell out for these products over, say, GK's offerings.

I couldn't give two hoots where things are made per se, as long as the product, buyer experience and aftercare are fit for purpose. On the contrary, if I feel like I'm being taken the piss out of it leaves a sour taste, regardless of some superiority delusion masquerading as 'provenance'.

Of course this is all my opinion, but it's not lost on me that I am in the relatively unusual position of having the funds and work to justify considering equipment that is towards the pricier end of retail. These are beyond that and yet are not a luxury; luxury is commissioning a build with a craftsman (like Jon Shuker for example, whose skill, time and flexibility add a unique and personal value), not preordering on Anderton's. 

I'm with you in that there's no way I am forking out for new Mesa gear. But I wouldn't go around calling it overpriced stuff I wouldn't buy and by the way I like some other brand better so Mesa can do one I wouldn't buy it anyway. That's not cricket, and completely unnecessary.

 

[Downunderwonder]

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Edited April 6 by Downunderwonder
MAAA! It's doing it again!! Every time I quote from the previous page it fails to load up on submit. Submit. Sub...oh yeah better check next page...

[tobiewharton]

7 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

I'm with you in that there's no way I am forking out for new Mesa gear. But I wouldn't go around calling it overpriced stuff I wouldn't buy and by the way I like some other brand better so Mesa can do one I wouldn't buy it anyway. That's not cricket, and completely unnecessary.

 

I think you misunderstand me. I'm trying to understand why the gear is now considerably more than similar competitors. I don't have a particular brand allegiance - have owned a big variety. As such, I didn't say I wouldn't buy Mesa because I like another brand more (I actually use a Mesa preamp currently), I said I wouldn't buy new Mesa products because of these prices.

[agedhorse]

46 minutes ago, tobiewharton said:

Am I missing something here? Anderton's has the Subway D-350 at £900 and the GK Legacy 800 at £850? The Subway D-800+ is £1250 from the same retailer. 

Yes, and the Subway amps are not GK amps. If a lower price is what you are interested in, there are plenty of good options out there. Mesa is not the lower cost option, it’s on par with Bergantino and Aguilar however (who are also not a lower cost option IME)

Edited April 6 by agedhorse

[tobiewharton]

You're right, GK aren't Mesa. I mentioned them as an American-made Class D competitor. I'd consider them a premium choice but acknowledge that that's very much a matter of opinion. 

If we're comparing with Aguilar and Bergantino in the UK, one can currently get an Aggy TH500 for £800 or a Berg neo 410 for £1500. I just don't see the comparisons you're making. 

This is all inconsequential of course - any products are worth the price that people are prepared to pay for them, which has always been and continues to be absolutely fine. I'm just not sure who those people are intended to be in this case and I'm dubious that they're the same people that were targeted in the past. I've absolutely no issue with companies going 'exclusive', as mentioned in earlier posts by others, but I do prefer those companies to call a spade a spade.

 

[agedhorse]

33 minutes ago, tobiewharton said:

You're right, GK aren't Mesa. I mentioned them as an American-made Class D competitor. I'd consider them a premium choice but acknowledge that that's very much a matter of opinion. 

If we're comparing with Aguilar and Bergantino in the UK, one can currently get an Aggy TH500 for £800 or a Berg neo 410 for £1500. I just don't see the comparisons you're making. 

This is all inconsequential of course - any products are worth the price that people are prepared to pay for them, which has always been and continues to be absolutely fine. I'm just not sure who those people are intended to be in this case and I'm dubious that they're the same people that were targeted in the past. I've absolutely no issue with companies going 'exclusive', as mentioned in earlier posts by others, but I do prefer those companies to call a spade a spade.

 

The Berganitno Forte D is £1200 at Bass Direct and the Aguilar AH700 is £1169 at PMT UK and the Darkglass Microtubes 900 is £1169 at Andertons. These are actually more similar to the D-800 than the D-800+, but in the ballpark based on feature set. The D-800 is £1149 at Andertons, also well within the ballpark.

 

My point is that there are other brands that are priced in the same range as Mesa (I'm talking about Bass gear, I don't know anything about the Guitar side). 

[Al Krow]

At the end of the day, manufacturers of kit are commercial enterprises who need to turn a profit or they go bust. Pricing strategy has to be carefully thought through and got right, and all companies' management will regularly look at the impact of pricing on their sales and margins. If they have built up a brand which allows them to premium price, well good for them!

 

As consumers we pay our money and make our choices: no one is forcing anyone to buy particular kit - there is so much choice around at all price points from budget to boutique. And nothing to stop us buying used either.

 

Edited April 8 by Al Krow

[dmccombe7]

On 25/02/2024 at 17:59, agedhorse said:

What doesn't make sense to me is that it doesn't seem to be national loyalty because I'm hearing that in Europe there doesn't seem to be any concern for where a product comes from as long as it's cheaper. This implies that there is no national loyalty... either to USA manufactured products or those manufactured in their home region. 

As long as the amps are well-built, reliable and come from a reputable company the country isn't a main concern for me. Mesa's quality control is one of the best, they use top grade components and for me that should mean reliability and less chance of something going wrong.

I saw it in my first Mesa gear an Mpulse 600 that was approx 20 yrs old when i bought it 2nd hand and it has never let me down other than a crackling pot that was a simple skoosh of cleaner to fix. Everything about it just said quality. The new SW cabs i bought 3 yrs ago are the same. Solid well built cabs with speakers that can take anything i can hit them with.

That is what Mesa means to me. Reliability, quality and one of the best tones i've ever had. Expensive ? YES but you get what you pay for in life.

The TT800 i originally ordered 3 yrs ago was £1150 and now £1550. The WD800 from £1150 to £1299 which i don't quite understand but the TT800 is the amp i've been trying to buy for some considerable time and if that means paying more then i'm ok with it.

I have to admit i'm a Mesa fan and love their gear. I associate quality with Mesa.

Dave

 

[BassmanPaul]

On 21/10/2023 at 03:36, Pirellithecat said:

So not long to wait now!   I'll just have to de-GAS for while longer

 

 

 

 

Beano is good for that I hear1!

 

[agedhorse]

To follow up on the availability (as I promised earlier), it appears that some dealers/distributors ordered more guitar products and less (or no) bass products because as a dealer they are more invested in then guitar side than the bass side (a few sell no bass products except for special order). Those dealers more focused on bass apparently ordered and sold out of their allotment right out the gate, hence the backorder status. The good news is that there are more containers landing in Europe shortly and there is bass products in them. Cabinets are still in somewhat shorter supply because we just can't build enough of them as fast as we really need to and insure that the fit & finish is maintained. 

 

Hope this helps.

[wintoid]

Thanks for the update!  Any idea whether those containers might contain any of the bass DI and DI+?

[agedhorse]

15 hours ago, wintoid said:

Thanks for the update!  Any idea whether those containers might contain any of the bass DI and DI+?

I don’t think so. 
 

Also, I saw that Thomann just updated their EU site to reflect what they have due to arrive.