Scott Devines new record

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, peteb said:

Surely the idea is that we are all supposed to be musicians here?? 

 

Hmm... Not many opera lovers, that's certain. (Other unloved genres are available ...)

[BreadBin]

5 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Hmm... Not many opera lovers, that's certain. (Other unloved genres are available ...)

I was at the opera on Saturday

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, BreadBin said:

I was at the opera

We used to play at the Opera quite a lot back in the early 90s -the Opera On The Green on Shepherds Bush Green.

[Sweeneythebass]

Had a listen and I quite enjoyed it! Obviously very Fusion, some nice improvisation and then unison parts.Bass tone and feel 👍 Like the drums,  less like the tone of the other instruments but yes it’s fusion. Crazy breakdowns and laid back/funky sections my favourite bits. Do I like it enough to buy it ? No but I can’t remember the last time I purchased music (audio) anyway.

[Rich]

19 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

Agree 100%. I gave it another go but it's very reminiscent of stuff put out in the 70s, 80s and 90s going back to Return to Forever and Mahnavishnu to Tribal Tech and for chase scenes in Starsky & Hutch . But like shred, there's only the tiniest, most niche market for this stuff.  You really would have to play this for love as I'm sure there' s next to no money in it.

It'd go down a storm on the continent, they still love their fusion over there. Mike Stern's latest European tour for example, he had 9 dates in France with 8 in Spain and 5 in Germany coming up. One in the UK.  

[Barking Spiders]

7 minutes ago, Rich said:

It'd go down a storm on the continent, they still love their fusion over there. Mike Stern's latest European tour for example, he had 9 dates in France with 8 in Spain and 5 in Germany coming up. One in the UK.  

But are the venues Le Chien et Canard / El Perro y Pato  / Der Hund und Ente or Stade de France / Camp Nou?

[No lust in Jazz]

16 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

As Frank Zappa said "Does humour (oops, humor) belong in music?". 

Did Zappa say that? - I thought that he was asked, Does humor belong in Music? as a question..

 

While the Scott Devine album ins't for me, I'm pleased to see that he's actually making music. I thought a weakness of the early SBL was Scott often referring to being on a 'session' - when at the time 'Discogs' indicated that he hadn't played that much. 

[SteveXFR]

11 hours ago, peteb said:

 

Surely the idea is that we are all supposed to be musicians here?? 

 

 

Well yes but my point is that very, very few people who aren't musicians will have any interest in it

[Baloney Balderdash]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Hmm... Not many opera lovers, that's certain. (Other unloved genres are available ...)

That's because all it takes to sing opera professionally is to sing in tune and really loud, you don't need to actually have a great voice that is pleasant to listen to.

 

In fact because singing loud is weighted so highly, combined with it being a very stylistic way of singing, making it hard to sound authentic and not forced, often the voice sounds really horrible and is really straining to listen to.

 

There are opera singers who are actually also pleasant to listen to, but they are a minority.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Old Man Riva]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Hmm... Not many opera lovers, that's certain. (Other unloved genres are available ...)

Sorry Dad, just not a fan of talk shows. Especially the US ones… 

[Paolo85]

51 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Well yes but my point is that very, very few people who aren't musicians will have any interest in it

I think you are right. But for what I have seen over time most fusion fans I have encountered are not advanced musicians and no way they can identify chords just by listening. I do like a bit of fusion and I am just slightly above beginner as musician.

Partially that's because that's how it goes with musicians in general (most just play a little bit, a few get into regular gigging, almost none study at advanced levels).

For a quite a few (eg my brother) it worked almost the other way around: they are very much into well played music, so this gives them a push to try and give an instrument a go as well.

The fact is, I doubt many 8 year old listening to fusion, or death metal, or stochastic music for the first time would like them.

For some stuff, you need to go down a rabbit hole and get your ears into it over time. This often involves giving albums you don't like many chances, and revisit them a few times over the years. 

Playing an instrument is certainly one of the things that could bring you down the fusion rabbit hole.

Whether this says something good or bad about the music I am not sure. I guess in isolation it does not say anything, it's just a characteristic of the music.

 

EDIT: btw, that's the same with metal. Most metalheads I have known do (or did) play an instrument

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Paolo85

[Barking Spiders]

31 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Well yes but my point is that very, very few people who aren't musicians will have any interest in it

Ain't that a fact. I've known several people - all blokes at that, no ladies - who've been into prog, jazz fusion, shred guitar, symphonic metal etc and all of them have been fairly advanced players of their instrument...so to speak!😁. No non-musicians I've known even know what these genres are.

[Leonard Smalls]

2 hours ago, MB - Cheshire said:

Did Zappa say that? - I thought that he was asked, Does humor belong in Music? as a question..

No idea!

But I've got a Zappa live dvd from the 80s with Scott Thunes on bass complete with some interviews called that!

[TimR]

I'm not sure that anecdotal evidence is particularly useful as we probably all know a lot more musicians than non musicians.

 

I was introduced to BrandX by a non musician and my cousin is into Fusion, and not musical at all. 

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

That's because all it takes to sing opera professionally is to sing in tune and really loud, you don't need to actually have a great voice that is pleasant to listen to.

 

In fact because singing loud is weighted so highly, combined with it being a very stylistic way of singing, making it hard to sound authentic and not forced, often the voice sounds really horrible and is really straining to listen to.

 

There are opera singers who are actually also pleasant to listen to, but they are a minority.

 

Hmm... Sounds a lot like much 'death metal', then (Cradle of Filth, Lamb of God... The list could be long...).

 

In much opera, there are also orchestral parts, some, even, without the singing (overtures, anyone..?), and chorale parts. I will gladly admit that screeching soprano is not 'easy on the ear', but there is so much more than that, in many (but not all...) opera. Still, as has been pointed out, 'to each his/her own'. 

[Leonard Smalls]

44 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

I will gladly admit that screeching soprano is not 'easy on the ear',

Indeed... As a kid I was dragged to the opera, and the ballet, and concerts of all sorts ranging from Peter Katin playing Beethoven, to Askenhazy playing Rachmaninov and the Vienna Boys Choir doing that annoying angelic thing. I was told that popular music was only for the great unwashed and was somehow far below "proper" music.

As a result, when I was old enough to dare to use my own brain I rejected much of classical, though I rediscovered baroque music, and also discovered more challenging classical that we never went to see or heard at home, such as Varese and Shostakovich (though my ma now likes ol' Dmitri, admitting she should have given him a chance years ago).

However, I still can't be doing with opera - perhaps all that soprano nails-on-a-blackboard stuff turned me off most sorts of accompanied singing (as opposed to singing which is essentially part of the music). 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

In much opera, there are also orchestral parts, some, even, without the singing (overtures, anyone..?),

 

Indeed - Opera without the singing (and in fact death metal without the honey monster singing) are fine, have no problem with that.

[Barking Spiders]

30 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Indeed... As a kid I was dragged to the opera, and the ballet, and concerts of all sorts ranging from Peter Katin playing Beethoven, to Askenhazy playing Rachmaninov and the Vienna Boys Choir doing that annoying angelic thing.  

surely that's tantamount to child abuse? where was Esther Rantzen when you needed her?

 

My olds were big CM fans. Not much of interest in their record collection for me. I quite like a fair few tone poems and suites from the Romantic era but I can't be doing with opera, concertos, symphonies, lieder and solo piano pieces, apart from Eric Satie stuff. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Barking Spiders

[Richard R]

7 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

where was Esther Rantzen when you needed her?

Playing Brunhilda.

Or more likely,  The Nutcracker.

 

[Paolo85]

4 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

That's because all it takes to sing opera professionally is to sing in tune and really loud, you don't need to actually have a great voice that is pleasant to listen to.

 

In fact because singing loud is weighted so highly, combined with it being a very stylistic way of singing, making it hard to sound authentic and not forced, often the voice sounds really horrible and is really straining to listen to.

 

There are opera singers who are actually also pleasant to listen to, but they are a minority.

 

To sing opera professionally you need to have a voice that fits the role according to a canon because at the time music was not recorded and as such compositions required that all singers sound extremely similar. The same way a cello needs to sound like a cello, regardless of who's playing it anywhere in Europe or beyond.

Now, whether those "human instruments" have a nice sound or not surely is a matter of taste.

But beyond preferences over the mere "sound" of the voice, there is also an element of making a good performance as a singer. Opera singers at the highest level are absolutely perfect and expressive while performing technically complex passages. Look on youtube for more amatorial rendition of operas and it will be clear that it is not just something that comes natural once some technique is developed.

No doubt microphones have opened a number of possibilities to appreciate the voice of people that would not otherwise manage to be heard over a piano and two violins. This is a wonderful thing.

But opera is still there and has stood the test of time for longer than anything played through an amp has.

 

[Dad3353]

In the same way as some modern music only makes 'sense' with its visuals, either as videos or with uber-produced live shows, opera has its fuller impact when assisting at a 'live' production, where the costumes, the storyline, the theatrics are all an integral part of what's happening. When listening to a recording, one's 'mind's eye' is visualising the scene, giving the whole experience context and meaning. Having the subject translated helps, of course, so that one may identify the characters and the plot; many are intense, and the spectacle adds to this intensity. I don't listen to extracts from Aida as background music in the car, but re-living the emotions of the full opera make a joyful, though thoughtful, evening, often with eyes closed. When I listen to my favourite 'live' Jefferson Airplane album, from start to finish, I'm 'seeing' and hearing my memories of their 'live' concerts at the Isle of Wight and London's Roundhouse. If there's a personal connection it helps; my late father-in-law was a splendid amateur tenor, and his renderings of opera and operetta extracts at family occasions were memorable, especially when accompanied by other family members at the table. On suitable occasions, the lyrics were often 'adapted', to comic (and scabrous...) effect. Happy daze..! 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dad3353

[andyaber]

Just saw this and was too lazy to read all the posts

 

Listened to some of this whilst cooking tea.  Really enjoyed it.

 

Gergo Borlai, Nate Werth and Scott Kinsey are top musicians.

 

Can I get an actual CD i wonder?

[nekomatic]

6 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I was told that popular music was only for the great unwashed and was somehow far below "proper" music. 

It’s such a shame that these attitudes ever existed, and all the more bizarre because I don’t think they have done for many years along the people who actually play the stuff. All the classical musicians I know are just as likely to enjoy listening to pop, blues, jazz, rock or dance when ‘off duty’ as to Mozart or Szymanowski, and not remotely snobby about what other people choose to like. 

[ossyrocks]

As an aside, what's that orange bass he's playing?

[Rayman]

Wow…. what a great thread. It absolutely didn’t take the direction I thought it would.

 

Much like Scott’s album