slobluesine Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 i'm trying to get better live sound out of this baby... [url="http://www.bespokebasses.co.uk/electric.html"]http://www.bespokebasses.co.uk/electric.html[/url] sound is fine quiet but gets muddy when i turn it up which i can do no problem. need to compete with guitar, drums, the usual it has a Shadow pup into an LM2 at the mo, any suggestions on pedals, alternative pups? maybe a compressor? K&K system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Sounds like you need more midrange - as you turn up the human ear gets better at hearing lows so if you have too much bottom it'll become muddy. What's the speaker situation? Can you get them more earwards? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 got a pair of Aggie 12's Alex, dont use much mid EQ, maybe that's the problem hey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Yep, not a lot of mids plus not a lot of mids equals rather a lack of mids! Maybe try adding some muffling at the bridge so you can turn up the midrange without it getting honky? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 ahahh! so what can i use to muffle the bridge pup? Honky mid sound is not what i want, that's why i turn off the mid eq, want that soft trad DB tone... BUT LOUD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 (edited) Yeah, keep trying but the problem is that you'll hear the proper bass sound close up acoustically or well miked in the recording studio. But you'll never hear it on a live gig when trying to cut through all the other stuff. An amplified bass is an amplified bass - it has its own unique sound. Are you using a preamp between the pickup and LM? Try a Fishman Pro or Platinum Pro and the difference will be significant. It will buffer the impedance mismatch and tame the spurious harmonics. Edited May 8, 2009 by bassace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 anyone know if these are available off the shelf? [attachment=24973:dbpup.jpg] looks like P Bass pup bolted to the end of the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Are you using a preamp between the pickup and LM? Try a Fishman Pro or Platinum Pro and the difference will be significant. It will buffer the impedance mismatch and tame the spurious harmonics. [/quote] no, i dont have a pre amp, anyone out there with a Fishman i could try/buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) I also think a preamp should be your first port of call. I've used a Little Mark 250 with my double bass (with an Upton RSII pickup), and the input impedance is definitely a little low for most piezo pickups. The sound without a preamp wasn't glaringly bad, but not as clear as it could be, with a hint of a nasty high-end peak. Putting a K&K preamp in line cleared things up considerably. I found the EQ on the Markbass to be plenty useable for double bass, so you would probably be fine with a simpler preamp than the Fishman Platinum - anything that has an input impedance of 1M ohms or higher. Edited May 9, 2009 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Fishmans are good but I have never had a sound I like from mine. I use the SansAmp Bass driver DI and get just the right sound for me. My DB has a Shadow SH950 pup and goes through the BDDI into an AI Contra. Lovely warm sound, much more so than I get from the Fishman. Edited May 9, 2009 by BassBus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 bit pricey but sounds just what i'm after..... that Larry Taylor live DB tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozzbass Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I use the Fishman Dual Parametric DI with a Shadow pickup and it's pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 [quote name='BassBus' post='483929' date='May 9 2009, 06:58 PM']Fishmans are good but I have never had a sound I like from mine. I use the SansAmp Bass driver DI and get just the right sound for me. My DB has a Shadow SH950 pup and goes through the BDDI into an AI Contra. Lovely warm sound, much more so than I get from the Fishman.[/quote] BB do you really use a Sansamp with a Double Bass? I've searched all over and found plenty of refs re bass guitars but no instances of DB. Is it really that good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardi100 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 [quote name='bassace' post='484533' date='May 10 2009, 07:55 PM']BB do you really use a Sansamp with a Double Bass? I've searched all over and found plenty of refs re bass guitars but no instances of DB. Is it really that good?[/quote] And if so, would a behringer copy also do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I know I'm not a double bass player (though I have messed around on a few) but for me the really big difference between an acoustic and electric upright is how the balance of harmonics changes through note envelope. As such my focus would be very much on finding a way of dampening those upper harmonics whose sustain is so much shorter than those of the lower harmonics. I would even consider trying gut D & G strings to get this vibe. All a pickup can do is take the sound of the bass and amplify it and all EQ can do is mess the the steady state EQ. You could do it electronically with a low pass envelope filter designed to close in response to the note but that's rather overkill! I'd start at trying to get your electric upright to sound as much like an acoustic upright when not plugged in - find a way to get the thump and midrange and finger noise on the attack but then something to mellow out the sustain and also take a lot of energy out the lower harmonics after the attack (that's what gives uprights that thump, the quick decay of the thumpy harmonics). Once you have that sorted, then consider the amplification chain. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='484533' date='May 10 2009, 07:55 PM']BB do you really use a Sansamp with a Double Bass? I've searched all over and found plenty of refs re bass guitars but no instances of DB. Is it really that good?[/quote] I saw Tom Mason (London Bassist) on a gig and he had a sans amp for his DB, nice bass to start with, into sans amp into markbass combo.... great sound. I have the Fishman Platinum pro which I bought from a basschatter, it's absolutely fantastic. Most of the time I go direct into the PA and given that I keep a bass in the van of my main bread an butter gig it makes for very easy get ins' (think smaller than a bag of sugar) When freelancing I use it in front of a BK electronics power amp into a Schroeder 212L (sometimes with an Alembic pre in between for extra loud) The single best thing about the Fishman for me is that it can be wound right up til feedback occurs and then just switch the phase (it has a switch) to eliminate it so with a bit of tweaking of the eq a great natural sound can be achieved. Edited May 10, 2009 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='484533' date='May 10 2009, 07:55 PM']BB do you really use a Sansamp with a Double Bass? I've searched all over and found plenty of refs re bass guitars but no instances of DB. Is it really that good?[/quote] Hi Bassace Well all I can say is the BDDI is the box I go back to every time when amplifying the DB. It seems to cut the mids naturally. I don't like a lot of mids in my sound from a DB as the natural acoustic sound has less of them anyway. The sound I get seems to fit jazz just fine. If you click the link in my signature for Reverbnation the track 'The New Dresser' has the DB recorded direct through the BDDI I seem to remember. I'll let you make up your own mind. Graham Edited May 10, 2009 by BassBus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 so why do i need another pre amp when LM2 has great EQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='slobluesine' post='486674' date='May 13 2009, 09:58 AM']so why do i need another pre amp when LM2 has great EQ? [/quote] Another preamp with a higher input impedance may allow your piezo pickup to work better without loading it down so much. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='BassBus' post='484628' date='May 10 2009, 09:28 PM']Hi Bassace Well all I can say is the BDDI is the box I go back to every time when amplifying the DB. It seems to cut the mids naturally. I don't like a lot of mids in my sound from a DB as the natural acoustic sound has less of them anyway. The sound I get seems to fit jazz just fine. If you click the link in my signature for Reverbnation the track 'The New Dresser' has the DB recorded direct through the BDDI I seem to remember. I'll let you make up your own mind. Graham[/quote] Graham I've been trying to hear your clip but my pop-up-stopper keeps cutting in and won't disable when told to. I'll keep trying though. The only way I'll really be able to sample the merits of the BDDI will be to get one sometime, although I missed out on one that was recently for sale. As I've mentioned before, I use a Fishman Pro eq to take my mids down when using a 'middy' 10" Wizzy. Other times I can use it nearly flat. It is the cheaper version of the Platinum Pro and, to my ears and with my gear, has a slightly tighter sound. It does not have a DI facility - I get that off my amps - but has a phase reversal switch and does what Alex has just posted, it buffers the high impedance of the pickup. It makes a nice warm sound. So what I'm suggesting is that it probably does very much what the BDDI does although we all have our favourites. I did a gig with the seven-piece last week at a village hall in Sussex. The guy there turns out to be a retired sound engineer from ATV studios. He set up a great PA system. I set my usual backline - Underwood, Proeq, Clarus, Wizzy 10" and 12". I've never really used a clip on ATM 350 mic that I've had in my bag for a while. Anyway, I asked this guy to try it with my bass and to be honest and tell me if it's bo**ox. We tried it and it was amazing - I could hear back from the house speakers during the soundcheck and it sounded great. Our own PA is not really up to taking a bass feed, which is a pity. My advice to any double bass player is to keep a mic handy then if you have a PA opportunity plug it straight into the desk and let the sound man sort it out. No more compromises with DIs. Edited May 13, 2009 by bassace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='bassace' post='486791' date='May 13 2009, 12:01 PM']Our own PA is not really up to taking a bass feed, which is a pity. My advice to any double bass player is to keep a mic handy then if you have a PA opportunity plug it straight into the desk and let the sound man sort it out. No more compromises with DIs.[/quote] Thats very interesting Bassace, I often do PA supported gigs, might think about that. Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='jakesbass' post='486828' date='May 13 2009, 12:27 PM']Thats very interesting Bassace, I often do PA supported gigs, might think about that. Jake[/quote] Jake Hope to see you at Upton, then if we get any downtime together I'll show you my ATM350 and the lightweight ali clip I've made to mount on the bridge. Might have an opportunity to demo it. Edited May 13, 2009 by bassace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Maybe that's the answer, to use a mic. It will probaly reproduce a more natural sound anyway. Having a good sound engineer on hand as well could be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='BassBus' post='487168' date='May 13 2009, 07:17 PM']Maybe that's the answer, to use a mic. It will probaly reproduce a more natural sound anyway. Having a good sound engineer on hand as well could be useful. [/quote] Yes but only with a front of house PA. Using it with backline isn't worth the hassle; you'll get too much fedback to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I was going to ask what you monitor with onstage while using your mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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