Do you find your playing limited by your tastes?

[Barking Spiders]

Viz my own playing there are some techniques I've never bothered learning - e.g tapping -  as they're mostly used in genres that don't interest me. So in that respect I'd say my playing is limited due to my taste.

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Gasman said:

Interesting that some of the most regular and opinionated posters on Basschat don’t actually seem to see themselves as jobbing bass players but as composers, drummers, and maybe other types of musician. Would they perhaps benefit from a composers forum (TippetChat?), or a percussion forum (TympaniTalk?). Just wonderin’!

 

Indeed we would; would that it would come about. Meanwhile... 

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

Viz my own playing there are some techniques I've never bothered learning - e.g tapping -  as they're mostly used in genres that don't interest me. So in that respect I'd say my playing is limited due to my taste.

as an impressive looking technique tapping is great, but then I think I could spend hours working on it or 5 minutes programming something into a sequencer that will sound exactly the same.

[Gasman]

True for just about every musical sound I guess... brings us back neatly to Madonna's show - 95% prepacked.

[shoulderpet]

On 24/10/2023 at 10:24, tegs07 said:

I find my playing limited by my ineptitude and lack of discipline!

Me too 

[SteveXFR]

On 24/10/2023 at 10:21, Barking Spiders said:

I'm only a hobbyist so it's never been my aim to become proficient across a wide range of genres. I've really only stuck to the styles of playing in genres I enjoy listening to i.e funk, Stax, disco, 80s post punk, Dub and House. I've learned to play, not by practising scales etc, but by learning basslines from songs. Put me in a band playing metal, rock, country, jazz, opera and I'm lost. 

 

If you can play funk, post punk and dub then you've got everything you need to play metal. Just hit the strings harder, crank up the gain and look angry

[chris_b]

I do not consider myself a hobby player. When I'm asked to play a song, liking it or not is irrelevant. Playing it so the band leader can't tell the difference between me and the original is the main objective, closely followed by getting that second phone call.

 

I play lots of music that I wouldn't listen to for fun, but I can still enjoy the process of playing it in a band. Making the music is the fun part.

[Baloney Balderdash]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

I do not consider myself a hobby player. When I'm asked to play a song, liking it or not is irrelevant. Playing it so the band leader can't tell the difference between me and the original is the main objective, closely followed by getting that second phone call.

 

I play lots of music that I wouldn't listen to for fun, but I can still enjoy the process of playing it in a band. Making the music is the fun part.

I am sure the main objective would be entirely different if you played in an original band, and certainly if you were composing your own music, professionally or not. 

 

And frankly I fail to see the point of covers that seeks to copy the original 1:1, why would I ever want listen to something like that when the original exists.

 

To me the whole point of doing covers is to add your own flavor and perspective to them, your own artistic vission.

 

Some of the very best covers are so because they bring something entirely new and original to the original songs.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Dad3353]

21 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

...And frankly I fail to see the point of covers that seeks to copy the original 1:1...

 

In the same way that some people go to discothèques, to dance to pre-recorded music, or a DJ's mix or 'mash-up', and some folk like the 'live' aspect of singing, or watching others sing, karaoke, there are many that want to see and hear a 'live' band play music that they know and like, often with dancing and other social interactions involved. There are some that will enjoy a musician's version or interpretation; most won't have that as their main source of enjoyment, and having something close to what they have in their head already is what's required. The whole point of 'covers' is to give the audience the impression that they're seeing and hearing the original version, or close enough for them to recognise it and enjoy it. Bringing something 'original' to the party can work, of course, but it's not the 'main event'. Being close '1:1' is next to impossible for most pub/club bands, but add one's own 'flavour' is a secondary part of the affair, for most bands and for most pub/club audiences. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

11 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

In the same way that some people go to discothèques, to dance to pre-recorded music, or a DJ's mix or 'mash-up', and some folk like the 'live' aspect of singing, or watching others sing, karaoke, there are many that want to see and hear a 'live' band play music that they know and like, often with dancing and other social interactions involved. There are some that will enjoy a musician's version or interpretation; most won't have that as their main source of enjoyment, and having something close to what they have in their head already is what's required. The whole point of 'covers' is to give the audience the impression that they're seeing and hearing the original version, or close enough for them to recognise it and enjoy it. Bringing something 'original' to the party can work, of course, but it's not the 'main event'. Being close '1:1' is next to impossible for most pub/club bands, but add one's own 'flavour' is a secondary part of the affair, for most bands and for most pub/club audiences. 

I am not sure that recipe would have given quite the same success to Johny Cash's "American Recordings" series of albums. 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[12stringbassist]

I find that after playing since the mid-70's, I'm definitely stuck in some sort of rut.
It's a comfortable enough rut and I mainly play along with music that i like at home.
I occasionally find something on Youtube (like Scott's bass lessons) and will have a go at that to make sure I can play it.

With my band, we haven't messed with our set list in a short while, so I'd like to do that, because it's becoming a bit like groundhog day.

Edited October 27, 2023 by 12stringbassist

[chris_b]

51 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I am sure the main objective would be entirely different if you played in an original band, and certainly if you were composing your own music, professionally or not. 

 

And frankly I fail to see the point of covers that seeks to copy the original 1:1, why would I ever want listen to something like that when the original exists.

 

To me the whole point of doing covers is to add your own flavor and perspective to them, your own artistic vission.

 

Some of the very best covers are so because they bring something entirely new and original to the original songs.

 

 

Every band plays differently and it doesn't matter to me if I'm playing someone else's lines or my own.

 

I'll approach originals, covers and interpretations with the same care and attention.

[Dad3353]

45 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

I am not sure that recipe would have given quite the same success to Johny Cash's "American Recordings" series of albums. 

 

Sorry, too cryptic for me. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

 

9 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Sorry, too cryptic for me. 

 

Original:

 

Johny Cash's cover of it, from his "American IV: The Man Comes Around" album:

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Dad3353]

44 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Original:

 

Johny Cash's cover of it, from his "American IV: The Man Comes Around" album:

 

 

Ah, thank you; that makes a little more sense. I was not intending to imply that personal versions are a Bad Thing; there are many proofs of that, so no debate there. There is also, however, value in playing a 'cover' of any music in the original style (a 'cover' of the Johnny Cash version, for instance could be consider 'original' by many..?). I spent a career drumming in variety bands, here in France. Not once was there any question of 'composing' or creating anything 'original' to these bands. I transcribed the drum parts (pre-internet; very few drum scores existed for popular music...), so as to be able to play 'Hotel California', with it's signature beat, fills and breaks, just as did the other musicians. Chicago's 'If You Leave Me Now' has to be respected, if all the band are playing as close as they could to the version on the radio. Other numbers, more in the 'musette' style, gave plenty of opportunity for self expression, in the same way as stuff from the Real Book allows wide interpretation, but when I played 'my' version of 'Satisfaction', I was quickly brought up short by the band leader. 'Play it like the record', he said. OK, why not. At our next rehearsal, I played it like the record. Have you really listened to what Mr Watts, in his wisdom, played on that track..? Give it a whirl, just for fun. It's like the Duracell rabbit, going 'One, One, One, One' with all members playing on that beat. It is truly dreadful. I played it, once, at the rehearsal; the band leader asked me to play my version after that. OK, it worked on the disk, for The Stones, in its day, but our singer was not Mr Jagger, nor the guitars 'Keef'. Yes, there's a place for making things one's own, but also a place for learning how the original musician composed his work, and playing that. I prefer, for the most part, to see and hear a Schubert symphony as composed by Schubert.

[Doctor J]

Your average punter down the Rat & Ferret is not there for Johnny Cash and his emotional renditions, however. They're there to have some beer, dance and sing along to songs they know and like. I'm sure the chaps in covers bands would agree that much of what they play is steered by the audiences they play to and, as such, sticking somewhat closely to the original, keeping the punters happy, thereby keeping the landlords happy and, by doing so, getting paid is the name of the game, rather than turning Good Times into an emotionally wrought ballad and sending everyone home in tears - however artistically meritorious that may be.

 

There's a time and a place for artistic interpretations, down the pub on a Saturday night is not it, however.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Doctor J

[cetera]

9 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Some of the very best covers are so because they bring something entirely new and original to the original songs.

 

As do many of the worst....

[Baloney Balderdash]

6 minutes ago, cetera said:

 

As do many of the worst....

 

Your point being?

 

My point was that doing covers aiming for it to be a 1:1 of the original brings absolutely nothing new to the table, certainly nothing remotely artistic, original or creative, and the original will with guarantee in by far most cases be vast superior, and always, well, actual original.

 

20 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

Your average punter down the Rat & Ferret is not there for Johnny Cash and his emotional renditions, however. They're there to have some beer, dance and sing along to songs they know and like. I'm sure the chaps in covers bands would agree that much of what they play is steered by the audiences they play to and, as such, sticking somewhat closely to the original, keeping the punters happy, thereby keeping the landlords happy and, by doing so, getting paid is the name of the game, rather than turning Good Times into an emotionally wrought ballad and sending everyone home in tears - however artistically meritorious that may be.

 

There's a time and a place for artistic interpretations, down the pub on a Saturday night is not it, however.

To me music is, and should be, art.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[cetera]

1 minute ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well point being that doing covers aiming for it to be a 1:1 of the original brings absolutely nothing new to the table, and the original will with guarantee in by far most cases be vast superior, and always, well, actual original.

 

And in pubs, clubs etc the punters and landlords don't want anything new brought to the table. If anything, the more familiar the better. You may not like it, but success in those surroundings is brought about by playing what the audience want.

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, cetera said:

And in pubs, clubs etc the punters and landlords don't want anything new brought to the table. If anything, the more familiar the better. You may not like it, but success in those surroundings is brought about by playing what the audience want.

That's just tragic and sad. 

 

Why then play music at all?

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Doctor J]

To satisfy demand

[Dad3353]

10 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

That's just tragic and sad. 

 

Why then play music at all?

 

 

Music is one thing, The Music Business is quite another ...

 

 

Disclaimer : I play music for free, and play what I like to play. By pure coincidence, some people like what I play enough to listen to it, and even applaud on occasion. My compositions (mostly available in the monthly BC Composition Challenge...) are freely available for the World to hear. Art..? Nah, not me, chum. I'm not a fan of Art, in any form, really. Doing stuff for its own sake is enough for me; no need for fancy labels. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Dad3353

[Baloney Balderdash]

6 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

To satisfy demand

So would providing guns to people who want to commit suicide be.

[cetera]

14 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

That's just tragic and sad. 

 

Why then play music at all?

 

Lets ask a Symphony Orchestra....

 

Because it's enjoyable..... because there's satisfaction to be had in learning a well written piece.... because it's fantastic getting a positive audience reaction etc etc etc

[Dad3353]

3 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

So would providing guns to people who want to commit suicide be.

 

Yes, that's called The Army. There's a lot of it about.