Envelope filters

[paul_5]

I started out life with a DOD FX25 - the same one in the Flea video in the 90s.

 

Currently I'm loving a Lovetone Meatball Clone which does everything I could ever want from an envelope filter.

 

In the middle of all that have been a couple of Q-trons, a Q-tron plus, a mini (and probably Micro) Q-tron too, and my main squeeze for a good long while was the a clone of the Chunk Systems Agent 00Funk which is my second favourite.

[Quatschmacher]

On 26/10/2023 at 13:12, ped said:

Can I also recommend that you keep your first one, because it's annoying to realise that you liked that one best all along when you're about 20 filters through the journey!

Wise words. Had exactly that happen with my first octaver (Cog T-16). Not so with my first filter though which was the rather anemic Boss AW-3.

[Quatschmacher]

On 27/10/2023 at 10:17, NoirBass said:

I’ve just rediscovered my big box mini Q tron, it has the slurpy sound I always had in my head. Been using it ever since I plugged it back in!

Wishing I hadn’t sold mine for a song. 

[NoirBass]

While we’re talking filters, one of my all time faves was the T-Wah in the Boss ME-8b! I’ve bought loads of other Boss filters in my time and none are as good as the ME-8b. If they sold that in a compact I’d buy it without hesitation.

 

Also - Has anyone tried the Nano Q-tron against the big box Mini Q-tron. If it was at least close I’d probably settle for that to reclaim half of my pedalboard.

[Quatschmacher]

2 minutes ago, NoirBass said:

While we’re talking filters, one of my all time faves was the T-Wah in the Boss ME-8b! I’ve bought loads of other Boss filters in my time and none are as good as the ME-8b. If they sold that in a compact I’d buy it without hesitation.

 

Also - Has anyone tried the Nano Q-tron against the big box Mini Q-tron. If it was at least close I’d probably settle for that to reclaim half of my pedalboard.

Haven’t tried them side by side but I didn’t think the nano was as good as my memory of the big box one. It had been about 4 years since I’d had the latter though. 
 

EDIT - sorry, you said the mini big box, not the big big box. I had the big one. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Quatschmacher

[stewblack]

On 27/10/2023 at 20:11, GR7G5TER said:

That's the thing with the filers, it's about finding the one that gives you the sound you hear, I don't ever want to sell any of mine (we'll see) bit one gets used more than all the others out together

 

There are two envelope pedals on sale in the classifieds (from the same seller), neither of which I had heard of but have GAS for now! 

Sounds like we have a very similar relationship with these effects 

[Beer of the Bass]

I'm surprised at how many well regarded envelope filters lack a "down" mode where the filter frequency decreases with signal amplitude. For me, that's THE sound I want from one, and I almost never use the "up" mode on my Madbean Naughty Fish (a Mutron workalike).

[ped]

Just now, Beer of the Bass said:

I'm surprised at how many well regarded envelope filters lack a "down" mode where the filter frequency decreases with signal amplitude. For me, that's THE sound I want from one, and I almost never use the "up" mode on my Madbean Naughty Fish (a Mutron workalike).

 

I am sort of the opposite, and mostly use up mode, however I have started experimenting with the down side. My Bassballs is more of a down filter which has a really slow sweep so it can be very expressive (digging in slightly really changes the note). I have found that some down filters don't do much at the front of the note and sweep to quickly for my taste. However, the Mutron III+ has some internal switches to adjust this and I recently spent some time dealing it in so that all I need to do is flip the switch and it's in the right range.

[nilorius]

Just got MXR m82b envelope filter. Had a half hour to play a game with it today already - real beast, screams like a joker, all i was really hoping. Fully satisfied.

[ped]

I've got a Lovetone Meatball on the way! Always wanted to try one. At the same time, I've finally been able to send my Mutron III off to Soundgas (where I got it from) so they can do a true bypass mod for it

[AJ567]

Envelope filters are deeply subjective. They work by "listening" to your playing and then doing something unique with that information.

 

The way a filter responds to your playing input might feel completely right to you, and completely wrong to someone else.

 

YouTube demos are all well and good, but the filter will sound and feel very different when you're the one driving it.

 

With that in mind, it's hard not to recommend the SA Spectrum... as long as you are happy to get stuck in with editing on your computer. There is so much flexibility on offer with its digital wizardry that you will almost certainly be able to get the sound in your head... And many more to boot.

 

Not so with the many great analogue filters out there. They all have their unique character. Which you might love, or you might hate. There's really no way to know until you've had a go.

 

[paulo m]

I've owned plenty of Filters & some of those are listed here' I completely agree with the analogy that they react very differently with different instruments' 

I have settled on an original ( & very desirable as they are no longer in production) 3 Leaf GR2 simply because of its, ease of usage  Great Squelchy envelopes can be dialed in  very quickly & it is an excellent sounding filter' unlike some of the 'way to quacky' laser beam effected boxes available now. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by paulo m

[TheGreek]

On 26/10/2023 at 01:25, Thump said:

Right then, this appears to be the correct thread this time...

 

After having listened to the options listed so far on youtube via some headphones, the EBS is the front runner so far. Will need to speak to the wife as she is the one with paypal.

Thanks for all contributions so far 👍

 

Would be my recommendation. IMO spending more doesn't always get you more.

[SumOne]

5 hours ago, AJ567 said:

Envelope filters are deeply subjective. They work by "listening" to your playing and then doing something unique with that information.

 

The way a filter responds to your playing input might feel completely right to you, and completely wrong to someone else.

 

YouTube demos are all well and good, but the filter will sound and feel very different when you're the one driving it.

 

With that in mind, it's hard not to recommend the SA Spectrum... as long as you are happy to get stuck in with editing on your computer. There is so much flexibility on offer with its digital wizardry that you will almost certainly be able to get the sound in your head... And many more to boot.

 

Not so with the many great analogue filters out there. They all have their unique character. Which you might love, or you might hate. There's really no way to know until you've had a go.

 

 

Perhaps it's just in my head, or not setting things up properly, but I've never found the SA C4/Spectrum to do it for me quite as well as the as the feel (perhaps a tiny delay with digital?) and perhaps randomness of an analogue filter. Recordings of the Spectrum version of the M82 sound prety much indistinguishable form the real thing, but I don't find it to be the same experience to actually play - it doesn't have quite the same feel and response, and not the same 'on-hand' experince of making adjustments. 

 

Then again, I would also recommend the SA Spectrum/C4 as they can do so much. But if there was one very specific filter sound I was after then I'd still go for the specific analogue pedal. (For me it's the M82 for quick/responsive almost precusive stuff and slap/pop, and the 00Funk for the slower/squelchy sounds).  

Edited November 22, 2023 by SumOne

[tobiewharton]

+1 for the EBS although I've not owned the newest iteration. MXR and EHX nano Q highly commended. The EHX is amazing value!

Enjoy the search!

[ped]

Meatball has arrived. Only had a shirt play as it arrived just before practice last night but rather liking it so far. I like having four steps on the range filter and a blend for when using band pass mode. It’s not lost on me how the enclosure is the same as my Valco pedals (which I love). 
 

First impressions are that it does the same mutron quack after some hunting around, and there will be a lot of other sounds here too. Plus it’s true bypass and has an indicator light for the input gain and on/off. 
 

Only tried on batteries so far but will feed it a 12v supply and see what that does. 
 

 

[ped]

Had a bit of a play last night alongside my Mutron III+ (The Musitronics one is away getting a true bypass). 

 

Unfortunately there's an issue with the decay knob. The seller mentioned that it had 'fallen off' when he packaged the pedal, but wasn't too clear about what he meant, so he said he'd send it and let me have a look/try, and refund if I decided. Very kind of him. So when it arrived, I was at work - the knob seemed solid, and seemed to turn, albeit with a bit more resistance than the others. I took it to band practice where I had a brief play but more to check it worked. Last night I had a proper play and found that the knob was spinning but the shaft was locked solid.

 

Even so, it seemed that the decay was stuck at a point which sounded great, rather a slow decay which on my preferred second highest range setting sounded near identical to the Mutron. I really like how the colour adds some wobbly resonance to the sound, kind of like the Wonderlove that I had briefly, but warmer and less peaky, and less 'vowelly' for want of a better term!

 

It's definitely an amazing sounding filter, and I'll replace it with a better condition one at some point, or a clone maybe. I think being able to dial back the decay will lead to some really farty squelchy sounds which I'd be interested to try. IME a fast attack and slightly slower decay in band pass mode with some clean blend is my other favourite envelope sound, akin to the FX25 in terms of growl, but without the massive resonant peak. 

 

Once I get another I promise I'll do a video comparing it, the II and the II+, the Qtron and the Qtron+ but I might need to borrow a looper pedal!

[Beer of the Bass]

12 hours ago, ped said:

It's definitely an amazing sounding filter, and I'll replace it with a better condition one at some point, or a clone maybe. I think being able to dial back the decay will lead to some really farty squelchy sounds which I'd be interested to try. 

 

From memory of replacing a dead rotary switch on my brother's Lovetone flange (back before they went for crazy money), they're not bad to repair - the layout isn't overly cramped, everything is through-hole rather than surface mount and the components usually aren't anything too esoteric. So if you can get a nice discount on the one with the broken pot it would be a quick job to get it sorted.

[ped]

1 hour ago, Beer of the Bass said:

From memory of replacing a dead rotary switch on my brother's Lovetone flange (back before they went for crazy money), they're not bad to repair - the layout isn't overly cramped, everything is through-hole rather than surface mount and the components usually aren't anything too esoteric. So if you can get a nice discount on the one with the broken pot it would be a quick job to get it sorted.

Thanks, I did think about it but the pot is behind the pcb and a bit fiddly otherwise I may have tried myself. Finding somewhere to repair it could have been a pain and it probably wouldn’t be worth the same as an original un-repaired unit (however crazy that might be) so I decided to return it and get another. I’ve had some issues with pedal ‘repairs’ in the past and can’t be bothered with the cost and delay!

[LukeFRC]

It’s a shame it’s going back, if t helps the pcb looks like it’s held on via the switches and pots so repair wouldn’t be too hard (100kA pot of whatever size they are, they look like smaller pots from the solder pad spacing?)

 

I read somewhere that the problem with the meatball is that it was so flexible it was hard to find your ideal settings again, did you find that?

[Alexx]

I have a Keeley Neutrino, the only EF I've used so far. It's pretty tweakable and seems quite sensitive to my playing, but I'm very happy with the sound now I've managed to dial it in. Switchable to pass up or down. Still getting used to it though and working out the best spot in the chain. 

[ped]

On 30/11/2023 at 07:42, LukeFRC said:

It’s a shame it’s going back, if t helps the pcb looks like it’s held on via the switches and pots so repair wouldn’t be too hard (100kA pot of whatever size they are, they look like smaller pots from the solder pad spacing?)

 

I read somewhere that the problem with the meatball is that it was so flexible it was hard to find your ideal settings again, did you find that?

Actually I found it quite easy to use, to be honest. Although I couldn’t play with the decay, I was able to dial in a couple of nice filters quite quickly. It’s not as simple as a mutron that’s for sure but only a few of the switches have useful modes for bass, and I didn't explore the fx loop or pedal inputs. 

[ped]

Take 2. Another one arrived. This one was broken too!! The ‘full’ triggering mode gave a constant oscillation and although 1/2 trigger mode sounded fine, you don’t get the full range. Also the switches sounded really dirty. The range switch in particular was very crackly and sometimes affected the sound until you wiggled it. 
 

I bought this one on Facebook and paid with PayPal (goods) so although the seller is a bit miffed (mostly because he had to post it which seems like it was quite difficult for him) he’s agreed to take it back. I haven’t got the energy to send it for servicing and waiting who knows how long, so I’m giving up on meatballs for now. I have a good sense of how they should sound, and that’s great - but if I’m honest I’m not a fan of the construction (Valco have improved in this design considerably) and I don’t think I could trust one now!!

 

[GR7G5TER]

On 24/10/2023 at 16:40, fretmeister said:

My current favourite is the Source Audio Spectrum.

 

 

 

 

 

It does everything. It sounds great.

 

As much as i love simplicity, I'm starting more and more looking at the digital/midi route to replace the my cumbersome current set up!

 

i know the Spectrum has multiple distortion/fuzz settings, can one use these without the envelope/filter. ie could i create one preset of my favourite envelope filter and another that was just a fuzz for instance? 

 

Follow on question, i know the spectrum can accept an expression pedal, can you se this up to essentially be a wah wah pedal in that way? 

 

I'm seriously thinking about giving this another go as even if i set up 2 presets to replace my Bassballs, MuTron IV and Morley Cliff Burton wah that's some serious board real estate i'm freeing up.

 

footnote* I'm thinking of ultimately getting a TWO notes Opus to take car of all of my pre-amp needs.

[GR7G5TER]

On 02/12/2023 at 15:23, ped said:

Take 2. Another one arrived. This one was broken too!! The ‘full’ triggering mode gave a constant oscillation and although 1/2 trigger mode sounded fine, you don’t get the full range. Also the switches sounded really dirty. The range switch in particular was very crackly and sometimes affected the sound until you wiggled it. 
 

I bought this one on Facebook and paid with PayPal (goods) so although the seller is a bit miffed (mostly because he had to post it which seems like it was quite difficult for him) he’s agreed to take it back. I haven’t got the energy to send it for servicing and waiting who knows how long, so I’m giving up on meatballs for now. I have a good sense of how they should sound, and that’s great - but if I’m honest I’m not a fan of the construction (Valco have improved in this design considerably) and I don’t think I could trust one now!!

 

 

Man that's a real sahame, i would love to try one of these out though.