Envelope filters

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, ped said:

 

 

I might be sad enough to write up my thoughts on each

Do!

the guys who run basschat would appreciate the quality insight and content (and us too)

[ped]

2 hours ago, tobiewharton said:

Enjoying this thread...

Ped - have you tried the EBS? I'm currently using the new morph and have had the older version in the past. I find both very pleasing!

 

I have only tried one briefly, I think when I was buying a bass from someone. I wasn't able to really get a feel for it as I wasn't familiar with the bass or amp I was playing through. I have heard nothing but good things so I should definitely try one. I had the Multidrive years ago which I liked. Didn't they have some system where the pedal was powered through a stereo cable?

[ped]

OK well you're lucky I have nothing more important to do today:

 

Had and sold:
Mini Qtron

One of my first pedals. I didn't really know how to use it at the time so would like to try one again. I liked the design and seem to remember getting a good sound from it with my Mexi Jazz bass. However one thing which I didn't like was that when the peak of the filter is reached it gave a slight whistling sound which was hard to remove. I felt it responded a bit unevenly so that bass frequencies would slam the filter open whereas treble wouldn't produce enough umph. Probably partly due to my technique and not knowing this at the time.

 

FX25 (sparkle)

I really liked the FX25. Like everyone else, I head it on the Flea video. In complete contrast to the Qtron, when the filter was slammed open, the sound made a lovely squelchy growl. Sounded best on a Stingray. Used it live quite a lot but had to have a limiter afterwards to take the massive resonant spoke in the bass end as the filter closed. A bit difficult to control because of that.

 

MXR M87

Had a couple of these because I really wanted to like it. I believe it's a band pass with a useful blend control, so it worked well for accentuating slap on a jazz bass but didn't find it thick enough overall. I do like the band pass sound but I really didn't like the sound of the 'Q' control which added a rather odd sounding vowel like character to the response. It seemed quite dependent on the chosen bass and suited modern actives better, I think.

 

3Leaf Wonderlove

Nice bubbly underwater sound, but I recall having trouble using it in a mix. I didn't use the expression input or the loop much. I think I found the range switch a bit limiting, with neither feeling like the sweet spot. Maybe it was a bit peaky sounding, kinda thin, I can't really remember but I think my biggest issue was that it needed a power supply, and at the time I was pretty much using pedals with batteries (sans pedalboard)

 

3Leaf Proton V4

Didn't like this one at all, to be honest. Found it to be quite sterile and cold, somehow felt a bit uninspired by it. I think technically it was good, but maybe I was expecting more, or it was over hyped. May feel differently if I tried one again. Maybe I had a bad week or didn't like the colour (actually I think it looked nice) but again it needed a PSU

 

Meridian Funk-u-lator

Loved the vibe of this pedal, and the synth/octave side especially sounded awesome. I lost a bit of faith in it because I had to send it off for a repair, which the designer did for me personally (and I think free of charge) which was brilliant, but still. I found the envelope sound hard to get right when used on it's own. I didn't think the controls (range, attack, wha) acted as I would expect, so it was hard to dial up a fat filter sound - a bit like the MXR I think it excelled at some band pass filter on top of a dry signal as opposed to an all encompassing filtered sound.

 

Mr Black Fwonkbeta

Very thick sounding, but hard to get the treble and bass behaving well with the basses I had at the time. I think the 'Fwonk' control was a bit like the Q control on the MXR, it added a vowel like sound which I didn't like personally, and other than that the controls were limited. Shallow maybe but I wasn't a fan of the graphics or the slightly cringe marketing. I liked the LED jewell.

Aguilar Filter Twin

Quite liked this one. Fan of the construction and feel, even the colour. Quite unique sounding, a bit like the bassballs having two filters overlapping, but in comparison to the Bassballs I missed having the throaty distortion added to that. Probably would have kept this but must have sold it to buy something else. Would like to try again. I think it would have been more useful to me if it was a single envelope with more control.

Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer

Very complicated and full of useful sounds. Slightly outdated and obsolete but in the way that I like - I'm always fond of really unique and left of field products which serve a nice within a niche. The squeezer was great and I had fun programming in sounds, menu frustrations aside. I found it a bit noisy though (may have been my use case) and probably didn't dig into the sounds enough because at the time I wasn't using a great deal of fuzz.

Maxon AF9

I loved everything about this one; the size, the sound (pretty much exactly like a mutron). However I found there wasn't enough range in the sensitivity control; some basses had to have that almost maxed out which was a problem particularly with the down filter. I love the little mini switches (mine was the two know non-slider version). Hard to track down - I should have probably kept it and maybe checked if the sensitivity could be adjusted.

 

Lovetone Meatball

This feels like a little bit of everything rolled into one, except from having two filters active at once. I'm divided on the construction - I like the size and format, but I have Valco made pedals with the same enclosure which have been improved slightly over the Lovetone (locking latch, rubber feet). The controls are quite sensitive/easy to turn so unless I get some locking knobs it may make more sense to keep this as a studio piece rather than for use live, but as I get to know it I'll be able to dial in things fairly quickly. It has the best bits of the resonance from the 3leaf, the warmth of the Mutron and the useful blend control, true bypass and status LED. It's in the sold category because I bought and sold two - the first one had a broken decay knob, which the seller realised when he was packing it. I gave it a go on the understanding that I could send it back if it wasn't easy to fix, and after a couple of emails and a struggle to find anyone who could look at it this side of my death I sent it back. Bloke was cool about it though and it was great to try. Second one had a constant warbling/oscillating so I sent that back too, bloke was a bit miffed and said it didn't do it at his house, so it remains a mystery. But it definitely didn't work at mine.

 

Solid Gold FX Supa Funk

Wasn't a fan of this, I returned it quite quickly. Just didn't work for me, and not what I was expecting. It was much more in the bassballs camp but with a drier sounding fuzz which didn't compare favourably at the time. I think I might give it another chance now though. I think dual filters are very different effects to their single filter brethren and I maybe didn't acknowledge this at the time, so I was trying to get something completely different from it.

 

Mutron III

Had to be tried. Didn't like the very leaky bypass and the fact that the gain control for the filter increased the level of the effect. Thankfully with most of my instruments the gain was right at unity. Odd power requirements meant it took up two slots on my supply, but happily batteries seemed to last quite a long time. I love having an off switch which means you can leave it pugged in without any battery drain. Don't know why that's not more common. The sound was great - very wet and liquid, without ever sounding harsh. Pushed to extremes it remained musical and usable, though I didn't use it like that often.

 

Qtron (big box)

Had a dodgy footswitch but sounded great. Didn't feel particularly sturdy but I'm sure it was. In an A/B comparison with the Mutron it lost out by a narrow margin, but gained points for having a very good (true?) bypass and stays LED. Slightly awkward power requirement (24v I think)

Qtron+

As above, but with the useful addition of an fx loop. Especially liked the graphics on this one but still lacking the construction - mind you, next to a Mutron, even a solid block of steel feels a bit weedy). Sounded actually quite different to the standard Qtron - with added response speed control. The mix setting never worked as well as I hoped it would in my head. 

 

FX25 (light green V1)

Same as the FX25 higher up, but in a rarer colour. It sounded slightly different to the sparkly one, I think better but as is often the case I may be just assuming that because it was more money. I bought and sold several FX25s and was determined to keep this one, but in the end the need to have a limiter after the pedal meant it didn't fit in my setup and a bit too expensive to have sitting pretty on a shelf. I still maintain that the sound of an FX 25 being pushed wide open has a unique sound which nothing else does.

 

Xotic Robotalk 2

Rather like two FX25s in a smaller housing, with different settings for each and without the resonant spike. Really liked this one, and now I'm not 100% sure why I sold it. Perhaps it didn't have quite the smoothness of my other filters at the time (Mutron). Looking back I used to be really sad and analyse these things late into the night, niggling over the smallest things. I need to grow up. Actually, no. You do.

 

Currently have:
Bassballs Green Russian (V1)

One of my first pedals along with the Mini Qtron. Well not this exact one but a USA version. At the time I found it crazy sounding and didn't keep it for long. Since then I've come to appreciate them a lot, finding with this model in particular that a low sensitivity and palm muting can give a really fat synth sound, a bit like every effects pedal you own turned on at once run through a phaser. Quite an epiphany using it in a band mix where it just... works. This green one I bought simply because of it rarity, but I genuinely do think it sounds the best and I just love that massive ruskie footswitch that goes 'kerchunk'. Adjusting the sweep of the filters using the internal trim pots helps you perfect the response to your instrument (something Mooer have added as external controls on their Sweeper)

Bassballs Black Russian (V1)

Obtained a black paint version of the above in the rare tall case. Sounds slightly more 'robotic' than the green one, otherwise the same applies. A keeper for sure, and nice to have a standalone one off my pedalboard if I want to use it on its own, or use it for home defence.

 

Bassballs USA

Used to be a bit fan of this one - sounds even more robotic than the black one above. Certain basses suit it better than others, I keep it around as a reference and because they're quite cheap. 

Mutron III+

Was fully expecting to hate this, having read everyone slagging them off on Talkbass, partly due to the apparent bad blood between the inventor of the original pedal and the designer of the new one who was an employee. Personally not affected by that as I don't own shares so I just wanted to see how bad it was. Despite many threads about it, actual comparisons between the original III and the new III+, by two people owning them both at the same time were almost impossible to find, and several people had seemingly made their mind up despite not having tried both, at least not at the same time. So I made it my mission to do so, and you know what - for the sound I settled on with original my Mutron III, I was able to match it perfectly on the III+. Not every bass worked well with the III+ but my main instrument sounded even slightly better with the III+. I also prefer the power requirements (18-25v) and the true bypass. The internal dip switches allow the response of the up and down to be adjusted somewhat and I don't know what to say, it just suits my bass and playing perfectly. Even flipping the switch means the down filter is dialled in without having to adjust the pedal. I think this pedal exemplifies how viscous internet rumour and anti digital bias can cloud judgement. 

 

Crowther Prunes & Custard

I categorise this as an envelope filter but it's kind of different, in the same way as a Bassballs is. It's sort of its own thing, but it has an envelope sensitivity which is great fun. Best when used in a subtle way, but it can get quite nasty. I dropped this as a live pedal as I felt it got lost in the mix more than the Bassballs.

 

Lovetone Meatball

Third time lucky? So far I have matched the sound of the Mutron III+ and have plenty to explore either side, up and down around that. Very happy so far and debating whether it'll replace the III+ on my pedalboard, but even though I'm used to big pedals even I am wondering if that's wise.

 

So there you go. I hope you're more impressed than my boss who thinks I've been absolutely smashing my TPS reports today

[itu]

@ped did so good work, I'll add my 2 cents.

 

EHX - Qtron+

Something I did not like at all. Not technically, not soundwise, just wasn't for me. A big one.

 

Subdecay - Proteus

I have this, and it works... pretty well. Simple and functional, but its behaviour depends on the bass.

 

IE - Xerograph DeLuxe

This is it! Very complicated, too. The width of the settings is wiiiide. Turn a bit and the sound changes drastically. I love this one, although it requires quite a lot of time to master. No use in month, and I have to get back to the basics. But I just love this unit.

 

OnKart Gromt - Funky Fellow

Very good sounding unit. Lots of options, powerful, but well behaving. The tiny display tells, what's going on. Amazingly useful feature. Bought one, when these came out.

 

Audiospektri - PGV

This is a peculiar effect. It is a vocoder, and quite some more. I accept that I need time with this one. But it seems it has powers I have not been able to release, yet.

 

DOD - FX25

Bought a used one few days ago. Want to hear this, when it arrives.

[ped]

On 10/06/2024 at 18:49, itu said:

@ped did so good work, I'll add my 2 cents.

 

EHX - Qtron+

Something I did not like at all. Not technically, not soundwise, just wasn't for me. A big one.

 

Subdecay - Proteus

I have this, and it works... pretty well. Simple and functional, but its behaviour depends on the bass.

 

IE - Xerograph DeLuxe

This is it! Very complicated, too. The width of the settings is wiiiide. Turn a bit and the sound changes drastically. I love this one, although it requires quite a lot of time to master. No use in month, and I have to get back to the basics. But I just love this unit.

 

OnKart Gromt - Funky Fellow

Very good sounding unit. Lots of options, powerful, but well behaving. The tiny display tells, what's going on. Amazingly useful feature. Bought one, when these came out.

 

Audiospektri - PGV

This is a peculiar effect. It is a vocoder, and quite some more. I accept that I need time with this one. But it seems it has powers I have not been able to release, yet.

 

DOD - FX25

Bought a used one few days ago. Want to hear this, when it arrives.

 

Cool list, coincidentally I saw a OnKart one on eBay recently. Always been interested in those. I also want to try an Xenograph... when does the FX25 arrive

[ped]

I've spent a lot of time with the Meatball over the last few days and I'm really getting to know it.

 

It's great being able to control the attack and decay. You can get bubbly sounds or more swelling sounds by adjusting how close together they are. I have found that a tiny bit of attack (up to 9:00) with a decay at about 2:00 gives a really deep filter sound where dynamics control the filter in a really 3D way. I think compared to the Mutron the band is wider and means you can use it more dynamically.

 

The other observation is how differently it behaves with battery, 9V or 12V supply. Using a fresh 9V battery it sounded great but there was some distortion at higher colour settings. I wasn't sure if that was due to the peak overloading my interface or preamp but this is almost gone on a 9v supply. Switching to a supply cleans up the already minimal noise that the pedal introduces, just a slight hum in bypass (this could be a peculiarity of my setup/location). Otherwise the frequency response seemed to shift to bring everything up slightly. Changing to 12V from my Cioks, it's absolutely silent, so much so that I couldn't detect any difference when it's on or off. This was especially pleasing to me because I like a super quiet noise floor, something which the TC Spectracomp has helped with a lot. In contrast the Haz Mutron has a fairly noisy floor when engaged, but it's never that noticeable as it's quite smooth sounding, but it's there. In bypass, the pedal seems to leave the signal untouched - it certainly doesn't buffer it (the pedals after have an impedance control which still works) but I'm not sure if it's true bypass or not (I guess it must be, but the input signal light still works in bypass, so?)

 

I'm getting to know the controls well so that I can quite quickly adjust the pedal to suit what I want, so that the decay fits in perfectly with the groove. I particularly like playing with a muted groove and letting occasional notes pop out. You can't help but make a face when that happens. I haven't explored down mode much yet, but I did put an octave and fuzz through it quickly yesterday and made a really doom sounding synth.

 

So yeah it's fantastic. Although it can get wild, or not respond at all if you set things wrong, it is never harsh or brittle sounding.

 

I'll do a video this weekend, hopefully.

[Quatschmacher]

So add this to the list. This is what replaced my MuTron Microtron. I think I posted a comparison clip earlier in this thread, but here it is again :

First clip is MuTron then Artifakt. Second clip is all Artifakt.

 

 

Edited June 27 by Quatschmacher

[ped]

10 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

So add this to the list. This is what replaced my MuTron Microtron. I think I posted a comparison clip earlier in this thread, but here it is again :

 

First clip is MuTron then Artifakt. Second clip is all Artifakt.

 

 

 

Sounds almost identical - I presume you can adjust filter parameters using the knobs?

[Boodang]

10 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

So add this to the list. This is what replaced my MuTron Microtron. I think I posted a comparison clip earlier in this thread, but here it is again :

 

First clip is MuTron then Artifakt. Second clip is all Artifakt.

 

 

The second clip sounds like a robot duck trapped down a deep well!

[Quatschmacher]

11 minutes ago, ped said:

 

Sounds almost identical - I presume you can adjust filter parameters using the knobs?

Absolutely. This patch I’ve set up with knobs for cutoff, resonance, envelope speed, envelope depth, envelope sensitivity, dry/wet mix, envelope self mod (filter FM) and the toggle switch selects between the three envelope responses of compressed, linear and expanded.

 

However, you can go further than that and assign a soft control to any knob which would allow you to adjust three different parameters and have their ranges limited to anything you desire and mapped to any particular portion of the knob’s travel. I was thinking of modifying the patches to add filter FM on one side of the knob and distortion on the other. 

Edited June 28 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

6 minutes ago, Boodang said:

The second clip sounds like a robot duck trapped down a deep well!

Yep, it’s capable of all manner of crazy SFX stuff too. I called one patch “Laxative Raygun” as it sounds like a star wars blaster followed by someone shítting their pants loudly and wetly. 

Edited June 28 by Quatschmacher

[Quatschmacher]

9 minutes ago, Boodang said:

The second clip sounds like a robot duck trapped down a deep well!

I might have to borrow that for the patch description when the Neuro edit function is working properly.

[Quatschmacher]

@ped, I just tried to send you a message about an admin task but it says you can’t receive messages. 

[Bagman]

The Crowther Prunes and Custard is a pedal that works with other pedals

 

some (in particular Filters) go to pot when used with something else 

[Rodders]

Anyone tried the Emma Electronic Discumbobulator? 

Watched a short video from Bass the World and I see you can order it from Thomann.

[nilorius]

1 hour ago, Rodders said:

Anyone tried the Emma Electronic Discumbobulator? 

Watched a short video from Bass the World and I see you can order it from Thomann.

Nope, i only tried and buyed MXR.

[mike f]

Anyone just given up on dynamic filters and just gone for a foot operated wah?

Probably the wrong place to ask.

Do I just need convincing/ more money/a slap?

Edited July 3 by mike f

[Doddy]

On 01/07/2024 at 14:46, Rodders said:

Anyone tried the Emma Electronic Discumbobulator? 

Watched a short video from Bass the World and I see you can order it from Thomann.

I've been using the Emma DiscumBOBulator as my main filter for years. It sounds great, it reacts quickly, and it plays nicely with an octaver in front.

I started using the version 2 a couple of years ago too. It's got more headroom than the first version, so it is a bit better with active basses, and it's also got a seperate 10db boost switch.

 

I love Emma pedals.

[Bagman]

12 hours ago, mike f said:

Anyone just given up on dynamic filters and just gone for a foot operated wah?

Probably the wrong place to ask.

Do I just need convincing/ more money/a slap?

I sort of went the other way but I’m thinking of a second board that has a cradle Wah first up. ( maybe a Mission Engineer) 

 

Filters are specific things…try,try,try. 
Also while I have spent time and $ I don’t actually use my envelope filters very much 😂😂😂. It’s just when I need it then it must sound like x or y. 

[charlietuna]

On 09/06/2024 at 01:00, HoorayForAnonyms said:

  I've always wanted to try the Meatball regardless of how massive and impractical the enclosure is! Haha! Thanks for the write-up Ped. Even at a bargain price, I don't think I'll ever stretch to owning one so we can live vicariously through you. 

 

Has anyone ever come across the FTELECTRONICA clone of the Meatball. I wonder how close it gets?

 

I also don't mean to steal your new pedal day, Ped! Congrats on the find! 

 

 

https://www.ftelettronica.com/product/envelope-follower-triggered-filter/

 

Late reply as I hadn’t seen @Quatschmacher’s tag. I haven’t had the Meatball in a long while but I do have the FT clone and am satisfied with it. One thing about the FT that I like better are the line etchings around the knobs that make recalling settings easier than on the Meatball.
 

One thing to watch on some of the clones are the knob orders. There are some the switch a couple knobs so that the envelope and filter knobs are intermingled. It is helpful to look at the Meatball as the left side controlling the envelope and the right side filtering the frequencies. The pedal is basically split into two halves. Approaching it with this mindset really helped me. 
 

Things I’m not excited about with the FT are its size and that it duplicates the Meatball’s poor expression implementation. Perhaps there are pedals that work flawlessly but in order for expression to work with the Intensity knob you have to insert the plug and then pull it out one click for proper functionality. I think some clones may have better implementation. Also, I don’t believe there is real expression frequency sweeping like other filters. I think this may be due to the Range knob’s frequency windows but I can’t say for sure; I’m not a circuit guy.

 

All that said, for an analog filter it is very responsive and can get really fat and filthy if paired with octaves and fuzzes. The effects loop works great for this. One trick to set or use pedals while they are in the loop is to just switch the direction from Up to Down without touching the other knobs. There may be some effect going on based on the other knobs but you shouldn’t have to manipulate them too much to utilize them without unplugging them from the loop.

 

Hope this helps someone down the road.

[mike f]

I met Vlad Naslas in the 90s and played through one of, if not the, first Meatballs.

Nice chap. Nice pedal. 

[dannybuoy]

On 01/07/2024 at 14:46, Rodders said:

Anyone tried the Emma Electronic Discumbobulator? 

Watched a short video from Bass the World and I see you can order it from Thomann.

Yeah it’s a keeper for me. I’ve ended up keeping 2 filters overall - I prefer using the Emma for Geezer Butler wah type sounds going into a dirty Sansamp, and the Fwonkbeta straight into the amp for old school funk.

[itu]

By the way, before I start an active search, is there a big difference between DOD's FX25 and FX25B? Few component level changes or something crucial between those two?

[itu]

...and I answer to myself with the words of our own @TKenrick: B equals blend knob. Thank you Tom.

 

https://freebasstranscriptions.com/dod-fx25-envelope-filter/

[ped]

5 minutes ago, itu said:

...and I answer to myself with the words of our own @TKenrick: B equals blend knob. Thank you Tom.

 

https://freebasstranscriptions.com/dod-fx25-envelope-filter/

The 25b sounds quite different I think plus there’s quite a volume drop. Even the various versions of the 25 sound a bit different. Mainly the issue is a big resonant spike in the bass range as the filter closes so the best thing to do is run it before an HPF