A 3d printed six string....

[Richard R]

20 minutes ago, rwillett said:

 

I think a cheap Ender 3 Pro V2 should be on your Xmas list or if you can sneak one in, a Prusa MKS4

 

Get thee behind me @rwillett!!

 

[rwillett]

4 minutes ago, Richard R said:

 

Get thee behind me @rwillett!!

 

There's some really cheap deals out there at the moment running up to Xmas, it'd be a crime not to take advantage of them and you have already said how having one would play to your strengths (I paraphrase somewhat).

 

I've got loads of spare filament that I'm happy to share with you to cut the costs down.

 

I'll pull some links out for you to share with the CFO

 

Rob

[rwillett]

After printing a few test pieces out, I have realised that I need to rethink the mounting holes as access is tight due to honeycombs and trying to keep the asthetic right.

 

So the last two days, whilst in various boring video meetings, I've redone most (but not all) of the screw mounting holes. I have deliberately gone over the top for the number for mounting holes as it's a lot easier to take things out and test if the screw mount was needed, than discovering that the guitar was weak. It doesn't look any different but I feel a lot more comfortable that I can access the mounting holes and change things later. The downside to this is that to print most of the pieces I have to be there to insert nuts in at the right time. This weekend is busy, so it'll be next week before anything starts printing what I hope will be the first prototype.

 

I'm also looking at fixing the guitar neck I brought. Its a Yamaha RGX-121DM, its thin, but two of the the heal mounting holes are a bit rough. I posted a request for help in another thread and people came through with some great ideas, the main one being to use M5 threaded inserts. I ordered some and then discovered they had a flange so they are going back and flangeless inserts are now on order

 

I looked at the neck and wondered how I was going to drill the 10mm holes down into the neck when the front of it is curved, so keeping it steady may be an issue (it will be an issue, lets be honest). I don't have a drill press or a vice, but I do have a 3d printer, so in the best tool making traditions, I'm making a guitar neck holder that will hold the guitar firmly, but without damaging it, and allow me to make a vertical 10mm holes in exactly the right place.

 

I'll screw the back of the neck to the top plate using the two good holes. The bottom has a slight curve to match the neck radius, it'll have a few layers of felt to proect it. The six holes on each side will be tightened finger tight to hold it all in. I can then use the drill guides, that's the vertical tubes, to make sure I have a vertical stroke on the hand drill. I don't want to use an electric drill and I don't want it to move.

 

Printing this now then off to take the dog for a long walk to clear head.

 

 

 

[SpondonBassed]

23 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I have to be there to insert nuts in at the right time.

 

Always wise.

[rwillett]

4 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I have to be there to insert nuts in at the right time.

Always wise.

 

Whilst this is a very accurate statement, when taken slightly out of context, it sounds very odd.

 

Well done that man for having an even smuttier mind than me

 

Rob

[rwillett]

A bit more progress. Have managed to work out how to drill the neck inserts in so I don't destroy the neck and accidently set off WWIII. One the side effects of that, is that I now have the right size for the neck heal module AND the bolt hole positions.

 

So am running this test print off at 60% infill as this module needs to be as stiff as possible (cue @SpondonBassed and all Viz readers). This is not the complete component but I've cut it down just to check everything fits. To my mind the heel pocket is probably the most important bit of the guitar after the fredboard, though this is based purely on my guess @Andyjr1515 might well correct me here.

 

 

Also have cut the backbone out of 15mm plywood. Despite my best efforts, whilst I managed to get a nice clean cut, one end of the ply is 86.6mm wide and the other is 88.3mm wide. So I can draw a straight line but I can't get a consistent width. I need someone with a table saw to make accurate cuts. In the interim, I'll use the plywoord as the load is along the length of the ply from the string tension, rather than the width. The plywood backbone would slot into a rebate on the back of each module and then I would anchor the plywood to each module with four screws per module. Not sure if this is a big problem or not. Will need to ponder it.

 

You can see how it fits here, the neck pickup module went bang a few versions ago and I haven't fixed it This is without the backbone

 

 

and this is with the plywood backbone.

 

Rob

Edited November 4, 2023 by rwillett

[SpondonBassed]

10 minutes ago, rwillett said:

this module needs to be as stiff as possible (cue @SpondonBassed and all Viz readers).

 

I'm not touching that unless it's moist as well as stiff.

 

In all seriousness though, I am watching with interest.  I had a brief involvement with CNC router table manufacture.  I couldn't quite get my head around the 3d software that it ran before I moved on from there.  It left me with a fascination for it having glimpsed the potential though.

 

I like the idea of 3d printed homes. 

[rwillett]

6 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

 

In all seriousness though, I am watching with interest.  I had a brief involvement with CNC router table manufacture.  I couldn't quite get my head around the 3d software that it ran before I moved on from there.  It left me with a fascination for it having glimpsed the potential though.

 

I like the idea of 3d printed homes. 

I built a CNC machine using a 3d printer. I enjoyed the 3d printing more than using the CNC machine. I did start writing my own software to drive it, as the CNC design software was a pain. I did give up though. I donated it and all the kit to the local school around a year ago. 

 

 

[SpondonBassed]

19 minutes ago, rwillett said:

the CNC design software was a pain.

 

I certainly didn't find it intuitive even with the help of the designer of the hardware.

 

I missed out on your earlier post where you were offering to print items for members.  I'd have submitted this link to a model of the pickup bezel on my B2A.  The corner broke off off one of mine by the screw head, just where I put my thumb, making it uncomfortable after a while.  This particular one has an added thumb rest which I didn't really want so I left it.

[rwillett]

I'll print it for you and bang it in the post.  It's no big deal. 

 

What exactly do you want to print though?

 

[SpondonBassed]

23 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I'll print it for you and bang it in the post.  It's no big deal. 

 

What exactly do you want to print though?

 

It's very kind of you to offer.  I'll PM you the address.

 

The standard bezel is a flat plate whereas the one modelled has a raised portion at one end that I don't want.  I haven't found a model that hasn't been modded somehow.  I would only want the flat plate like the original below.  I don't know how difficult it would be to remove the thumb rest and leave two countersunk holes at the corners and the two plain screw holes between.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by SpondonBassed

[rwillett]

If you can find a model, that's the easiest. 

 

It's trivial design if I have all the dimensions and I mean every dimension down to the inside radii. Need hole size, height, internal size, external size, screw hole position etc etc etc 

 

It's easier with a model. Send me a link if you can

[SpondonBassed]

It's easier with a model. Send me a link if you can

 

I did.   Here is the URL again -

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3472541

[rwillett]

And after a lot of work, I almost have a model that works. Its taken longer to work out the mass of fixing holes to connect it up than the original design. There are far, far too many bolt holes here, but the only way to know is to put too many in and then take them out and see how many are actually needed.

 

This is 10mm down from the surface where a lot of bolt holes are, but there's just as many 10mm up from the other side.  If I had a printer that was three times bigger, I could almost print this as one piece, but I don't so I can't.

 

The advantage of this approach is that it's modular. Its relatively trivial to put a different neck on this as only one piece needs to change. Want three humbuckers, not that difficult as thats a relatively simple wiring and pickgiard change. Not convinced the control panel is big enough, BUT thats just another module. You could change the two end pieces and make it a Gibson SG like shape.

 

Anyway, still need to check things now and thats another day or so as I have to check every hole to see if its consistent throughout.

 

[Owen]

I am glad there people who can do this kind of stuff. 

[rwillett]

After a few iossues with the printers, a themistor was playing up, I managed to get a bit more done.

 

At the moment, I'm printing to test the concept and fit. The printed parts are draft quality and will change for the better if it all works. Shouldn't make any difference to the sound but nicer to look at.

 

This is the back of the guitar with 8 x 22mm countersunk screws attaching the bridge and neck pickup to the 15mm ply. I made a drill guide to ensure the screws all fit as the holes only go part way.

 

You can also see the neck module and the guitar neck.

 

 

This is the front of the guitar with the bridge and neck pickup in place

 

 

This is the front with the neck in the neck module and slotted on. I haven't drilled the 5mm holes in the plywood yet as I wanted to check everything. The end of the plywood needs shaping but not bothered about that.

 

 

Next steps are:

 

1. Drill holes for the neck.

2. Print the bottom control panel bits so I can have something to hold the Telecaster control panels.

3. Print a small and simple pickguard to hold the neck pickup.

4. Solder (or wrap) the wires to see if it even works.

5. Work out how to se the intonation and such.

6. ....

7. Profit!

[rwillett]

So

 

Been in a number of boring MS Teams meetings and have used the time productively to go through a cross sectional analysis of the guitar mm by mm.

 

The aim of this check is to ensure that where I have a bolt that links things together, there is the entrance hole, a clear pathway through the object, an exit hole, a hole for an embedded nut, there are no 'thin wall's and it's all the right level of material. This is really painful as you have to force yourself to think about every single way that things connect. Some areas require access holes to get to the bolt and these need to be checked. e.g. the thickness of the neck clamp module is longer than my longest bolt, so I have to make an access port, basically a hole around 8mm in diameter that the allen key can get into the tighten the bolt inside. You can see it below with the purple rings. This means I can't attach the neck until I attach the top right strap bit, I need to print it first and it's 5 and a bit hours.

 

 

Also I've just realised my neck doesn't have a nut so thats on order as well. The work list never ends

Rob

[Richard R]

This is fabulous.  Complicated,  but fabulous!

[BigRedX]

Out of interest. Is 3D technology capable of printing a neck and/or frets yet?

 

If not what is holding it back? Structural integrity of the material, accuracy or size?

[rwillett]

It's not ready for print a neck. 

 

1. We can't print a neck in one piece. Printers aren't big enough. 

2. Structurally the material isn't strong enough. 

3. No idea how it would resonate. 

4.  The material doesn't bend reliably to allow the neck to be tuned.

 

Apart from that, no issues. 

[Stub Mandrel]

24 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Out of interest. Is 3D technology capable of printing a neck and/or frets yet?

 

If not what is holding it back? Structural integrity of the material, accuracy or size?

 

I do a lot of 3D printing (FFD and resin). It's not the ideal material. But... it's possible. I think frets wouldn't be hard wearing enough. A large machine would be needed, and it's likely a truss rod would be required. Resin printing might be the best way.

 

I like the ingenuity shown in this design. Very different from how I would have done it, but that doesn't mean my approach would be better! Think I would have gone for a more radical shape. Also I often use machine screws direct into the print - which works OK if they are not repeatedly removed, strength is enough that the print destroys itself before the screws pull out. The biggest issue is that most FFD prints will creep under constant tension/compression, being thermoplastics.

 

 

[rwillett]

@Stub Mandrel

 

Never tried the tough resins, all the resins I've used have been quite brittle, but I'm no expert in resin printing. I'm not aware of any printer that could handle the size of a neck, never mind all the stresses and wear and tear.

 

The shape I chose here was something to hold stuff together. At the end of the day, I suspect ths shape makes no difference in this model. This is a prototype to test the theory as I was intrigued. It's simple enough (relatively speaking) to chane all the outside bits for a Flying V or an SG or anything really. The core of the project is the neck, the neck holder module, the neck pickup module, the bridge module and the plywood backbone. Everything else is just noise.

 

I have done screws into the print, I have a little business doing astrophotography bits, but I found that embedding nuts is far stronger as you can put a lot more load as its pulling against a significant area, and as you say, if you repeatedly screw and unscrew, your lose the integrity of the screw mount.

 

I have no idea about the material creep once under tension. My intention is to tune it up, and then leave it for a few days and see how much it needs retuning.

 

Now printed the top right element and attached it to the neck clamp module. The 4 x M3 bolts are very tight and seem to work. No idea if Loctite is neededyet, that may be an option for later.

 

I'm holding off on attaching the neck itself until I've sorted the nut out. No idea what to do with a nut, so time to learn.
Rob

[Richard R]

There must be enough astrophotographers now to warrant a separate forum, or at least a dedicated thread. 

And I thought basses could become an expensive hobby.😁

[rwillett]

33 minutes ago, Richard R said:

There must be enough astrophotographers now to warrant a separate forum, or at least a dedicated thread. 

And I thought basses could become an expensive hobby.😁

 

Nah, we're in the lower football leagues compared to the astrophotographers. In the US, there are people with $100,000 setups. The latest harmonic mounts (that's a thing), large 8" refractors or 30" reflectors. The cost of the refractors goes up approximately as the cube of the increase in the radius. High end dedicated cooled cameras, computer driven everything. The one thing that the AP people don't prize particularly is vintage stuff. An original 62 bass is highly sought after, a 62 telescope not so much. Some vintage telescopes are sought after, but not to the degree and to the premium that people can charge here for an old bass.

 

And the mounts can cost a lot more than the scopes. A hell of a lot more....

 

Anyway, back on topic. Just looked at printing the lower left,

 

Even at 30% draft quality, nine hours

 

I may look at splitting this down into an inside and outside .... Decisions, decisions, decisions....

 

Thanks

Rob

[rwillett]

And because life suddenly throws you curve balls, both my Prusa printers are now broken.

 

1. The cables to the heater element on one have frayed away and because I have to be able to heat the hot end up to remove the heater element as it has filament on it, I need a whole new head. This involves quite a lot of work dismantling the head and redoing all the cabling.

 

2. The second Prusa is now giving me "Thermal Anomoly" errors. So suspect I may have shortened somethings out changing nozzles. Suspect that will need new cables if not a whole new extruder as well.

 

A new extruder is on order and two spare heater elements and two spare themistors are on order and should be here in the next day or so, but until that time, this project is going nowhere

 

The joys of 3d printing, sometimes you just want to cry.

Rob