SpondonBassed Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I'd say the cat is very much in the room on this one... No Stephen, not now. Come back in a couple of days. That's better. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 This weekend I experimented with glue. I don't believe I have ever written that phrase in my life before I'm trying to simplify the construction but keep the rigidity in the frame. Floplast looks the business, easy to apply, doesn't immediately go off like superglue and is a solvent adhesive. To avoid using screws and embedded nuts, I designed a simple dowel and hole system I can print. With wood, this is relatively easy, with 3d printing, there are limitations. If you print a hole that is vertical, it is likely that the hole will become ellipitical as gravity comes into effect. If you print thinner layers, then the ellipse is less but is still there AND it takes a hell of a lot longer to print. If I don't print this axis vertical, then something else is compromised. In my case, I want the front of the guitar to be printed on the steel bed as that gives the best finish. Ironing looks rubbish in my opiion. YMMV So I design an ellipse that prints a 3mm round hole when printed vertically. In Fusion 360 this is a 3.4mm on the major axis and 3mm on the minor axis. I also print 8mm long M3 dowels which take 4 min to do each. This means that the components should align pretty closely when clamped together with glue. I have a load of decent hand clamps just itching to be used. I've now completed the top of the design. Got space for a three way switch at the top right, changing that from a 30mm hole to a 40mm hole took a load of work with cable routing. Small changes can mean a lot of unpicking in Fusion 360. Sometimes large changes are dead easy. The face closest to you has six holes, two are for dowel alignments, the other four are for the neck module. The neck module is designed to come out and is not glued in. This allows me to change the neck over. The four holes are for four embedded M3 square nuts. These nuts are square and not hexagons as they go in vertically and if they were hexagons, you couldn't get the shape filled in through 3d printing. You can also see the 40mm hole for the three way switch, a hole for the strap button and five M2.5 holes for the pickguard. The back has a cover plate recess. Again three M2.5 holes with embedded nuts. As these are laid horizontally, I can use cheap hexagon ones as M2.5 square nuts seem to be rare. The 5mm chamfer on the edges is printed at 0.15mm using variable layers in PrusaSlicer. This is the top left of the guitar in PrusaSlicer Just under 13 hours of printing with a pause six hours in to put one M3 nut for the strap button. Both these jobs will get started tomorrow as they do require me to intervene and put nuts into certain places. Rob 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 6 hours ago, rwillett said: I have a load of decent hand clamps just itching to be used. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1673030 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) Mine are Irwin hand clamps. They need to fit inside the honycomb so these are ideal. The G clamps in Thingiverse aren't that strong and aren't suitable for clamping honeycomb structures as they need to be long nosed. I did try some years ago when I built a CNC for myself but they weren't a great success. I will also use long wood clamps for clamping across the whole guitar body at the end. Edited December 4, 2023 by rwillett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 'Wooden ring clamps' are good when access is limited https://atoztoolsonline.com/cdn/shop/products/708010-Wood_Ring_Clamp_425x425.jpg Edited December 5, 2023 by Stub Mandrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 They look good, though I had some hand clamps already. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 A quick update is that there is no real update I've printed off two pieces of the updated V2 of the guitar and two more test pieces are being done as I speak Hopefully by tomorrow morning I'll have this lot printed, though the neck module and bridge module are test pieces to check the support needed. This is an area of compromise, I want the top of the neck & bridge modules to be printed face down as that gives a nicer finish, but that means that the horizonal sections in the middle need supports. Support provides support for overhangs as the printed material won't just stay up. The green below is a honeycomb structure that supports the middle of the bridge, neck pickup and neck modules. I'll cut out the green and discard it once printed. This is a far chunk of printing though. Out of seven hours, the support printing is 1hr 55min. Still got this to print The astute will notice that there are no mounting holes in the neck module. That's because something went wrong in the design and I have no idea what Also need to put pickguard screws in. I have been testing Flopast (https://www.floplast.co.uk/product/solvent-cement) and it's great stuff. I cannot separate the parts once glued. I'm going to try and find out what the strength of the bond is. I suspect the bond is stronger than the 3d printed material itself. £9 a bottle, doesn't seem to have a bad smell, though as I have no sense of smell due to something happening 10 years ago (no idea what), thats probably not a good recommendation. Easy to apply, doesn't expand (I'm looking at you Gorilla Glue), doesn't dry immediately. Whats not to like? Once this is done, I'll dry assemble and check fit. Things might be out by 0.5mm or more or less or not at all. Printing can vary depending on time, temperature, filament, sheer bloodymindness of something or the other. The glue is kept well away, but at this point I can measure things for the wiring harness. House of Tone are just waiting for me to finalise things so they can get it built. I did look at the finish and I'm tempted to look at coating this in an epoxy resin finish. https://www.matterhackers.com/store/l/xtc-3d-high-performance-3d-print-coating-24-oz/sk/M3KW1WX0 However thats for another year. Rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, rwillett said: Easy to apply, doesn't expand (I'm looking at you Gorilla Glue) I thought that was just me with Gorilla Glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Owen said: I thought that was just me with Gorilla Glue. I've stopped using the brown stuff as its a nighmare. I used to use it to hold screws in thumb screws for my astrophotography business but have moved to a gel super glue instead. I don;t worry about expansion any more but I do glue myself regularly to the office desk instead. I shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything like adhesives, power tools, solvents, chemicals, glass, flammable objects, gas, petrol, alcohol or guitars. I'll either spill it, break it, inhale it (accidently), adhere myself, drink it, set fire to it or try to play it badly. One day I'll tell you why I'm not allowed near white spirit... Edited December 5, 2023 by rwillett 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamIAm Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 45 minutes ago, rwillett said: One day I'll tell you why I'm not allowed near white spirit... Hic 🤣 S'manth x 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Smanth said: Hic 🤣 S'manth x I shall say no more.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Oh come on, you can't tease us like that! Why aren't you allowed near white spirit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 Many years ago, I loved making Airfix models, 1/72 of airplanes and stuff. Typical boys stuff, and then would paint them up using Humbrol enamels. I suspect many people here did much the same. I woke up one Sunday morning in my bedroom and all I could smell was White Spirit. I looked on the floor and could see a bottle of White Spirit on it's side, the top off and it mostly empty. I smelt the carpet and thought "Bloody hell, knocked it over in the night and it's all spilt on the floor and soaked into the carpet. My mum is going to kill to me". I went out to the bathroom and could still smell the white spirit, "Oh no, its gone everywhere in the house, my mum and dad are going to kill me". I went downstairs and thought it was downstairs as well, I then starting thinking, so I went outside and could still smell it. The penny dropped, I hadn't spilt the white spirit, I'd drunk the whole bottle in the night whilst asleep. There was none on the carpet, but there was an awful lot in my stomach. I wasn't ill, didn't feel that bad, but my breath was awful and took a day or two to get back to normal. Ever since then, I keep stuff like that locked up in a garage and not in the house. I have never touched white spirts since, I moved to meths instead for a classier drink Rob 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Holy poo. You're lucky you didn't get lung damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 31 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said: Holy poo. You're lucky you didn't get lung damage. <cough>I'm absolutely fine<cough><cough>A little bit of late onset asthma and that's it. Most be the pure lifestyle I lead... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 44 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said: Holy poo. You're lucky you didn't get lung damage. ^^^^^^^^^ This! You were lucky not to have poisoned yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 I have never smoked so that might help. Plenty of other vices, but not smoking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard R Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 For which we are thankful, otherwise you might not have been around to be on BC. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 3 hours ago, rwillett said: Many years ago, I loved making Airfix models, 1/72 of airplanes and stuff. Typical boys stuff, and then would paint them up using Humbrol enamels. I suspect many people here did much the same. I woke up one Sunday morning in my bedroom and all I could smell was White Spirit. I looked on the floor and could see a bottle of White Spirit on it's side, the top off and it mostly empty. I smelt the carpet and thought "Bloody hell, knocked it over in the night and it's all spilt on the floor and soaked into the carpet. My mum is going to kill to me". I went out to the bathroom and could still smell the white spirit, "Oh no, its gone everywhere in the house, my mum and dad are going to kill me". I went downstairs and thought it was downstairs as well, I then starting thinking, so I went outside and could still smell it. The penny dropped, I hadn't spilt the white spirit, I'd drunk the whole bottle in the night whilst asleep. There was none on the carpet, but there was an awful lot in my stomach. I wasn't ill, didn't feel that bad, but my breath was awful and took a day or two to get back to normal. Ever since then, I keep stuff like that locked up in a garage and not in the house. I have never touched white spirts since, I moved to meths instead for a classier drink Rob Intense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 05/12/2023 at 17:06, Owen said: I thought that was just me with Gorilla Glue. I discovered that happened when I tried using it to cover a small cab in fake carbon fibre wrap. It did not turn out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 On 05/12/2023 at 17:17, rwillett said: One day I'll tell you why I'm not allowed near white spirit... I'm sure I told you, white spirit with fish and fowl, meths with red meat. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 12 hours ago, tauzero said: I'm sure I told you, white spirit with fish and fowl, meths with red meat. Damm, that was the problem, I should have come to you as a sommalier Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 7, 2023 Author Share Posted December 7, 2023 (edited) This is pretty much the finished article apart from any bug fixes. It has a three section pickguard, but this will be replaced by a custom made one once I know it all fits. The pickups are accurate for the Tesla pickups and sit on a cusom made bed that moves along the axis of the neck, so I can move them closer to the bridge or neck or whatever. Its easy to design pickups that fit to the pickguard or fit to the body now. You can see the mounting holes in the middle below. The neck module has been made and checked that it actually does fit the Yamaha neck. I cannot find a decent neck on eBay so have to use the same one as before. The neck module will fit to the plywood baseplate AND will connect the top and bottom of the guitar through four holes on each side of the neck module. This does allow me to change the neck over at some time, just in case a nice thing 58 Telecaster (or Stratocaster) neck falls into my lap. It'd probably take an hour to change the neck and restring it. If the neck module needs reprinting, thats a lot longer. I did this at 0.2mm and 60% infill, and it took 14 hours just for the neck module. But its very strong now. Cable routing is fairly easy, there are multiple paths to the control area lower left. There are six screws for the lower pickguard to hide it and there is a recess at the bottom for a plate to cover and protect it all. The bridge module allows different bridges to be used. I've put three large holes as the mounting screws for a Telecaster type bridge are more than 19mm long. The two rows of screws allow the bidge adapter to screw in. like so. This has the screw pattern for a cheap £5 ebay hardtail. Here's the above picture in cross section These are the five embedded nut slots in the orange section. If I print this at 60% infill it's pretty strong. I'm currently printing out the bottom left and bottom right parts of the frame. They'll be finished around 21:00. Tomorrow will be a quick dry assembly to check dimensions before I print the final versions of the bridge module and neck pickup module. I may adjust by 0.2mm here or there. I can also use the opportunity to check the cable run lengths for Home of Tone's loom. Over the weekend I'll then print the bridge adapter and the pickguards. I'll do the pickguards in white for the moment as black and red doesn't look that good. My intention now is to use plastic filler on all the seam lines, sand it down using a filler/primer. Get it as smooth as possible, spray with a matt black acrylic and then use an epoxy resin as the final hard coat. I will test this on my old version first. Thanks Rob Edited December 22, 2023 by rwillett 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowB_FTW Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 9 hours ago, rwillett said: This is pretty much the finished article apart from any bug fixes. This has been a really cool thread, to follow you on this journey. Now I'm just waiting for the bass version 😂 … Mark 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwillett Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) The bass guitar will be after the new year. Still need to finish this one off. Had a chat with James from Home of Tone yesterday about the wiring loom and that looks fine. The wiring needs to be custom made with quick release connectors. No idea what it's going to sound like, that's part of the fun to be honest. James is very helpful. I'm looking for a bass neck with tuners. Was hoping for a medium scale as I think neck dive will be an issue. I'll look over the weekend for any maths around centre of gravity and levers. If anybody has a bass neck they want to get rid of, let me know. Edited December 22, 2023 by rwillett 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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