String height v's tone

[Guest MoJo]

I've noticed that many bass players strive for a very low action and I have even emphasised that point when sellenig basses on eBay. I can set a bass up to get a low action but my (quite aggressive) style of playing, especially in songs like Therapy's 'Nowhere' where I play with a pick, reduces a bass with a low action to a series of clangs and buzzes. I find that to get a good clear tone, I have to let a little more relief into the neck and raise the action a little.

As my bass stands, I have approximately 3mm clearance at the 12th fret on the E string and about 2mm on the G. I play with 50-110's and my band tunes down half a step. Some songs are in drop D too, so at times my 'E' string is down to D flat.

Does anyone else find that they have to raise their action a little because of their playing style or am I on my own here?

[Kiwi]

I think you're probably in the majority. There's definitely a fatter sound to be had by raising the action.

[SteveO]

of course it's easier to play faster with low action as it's less physicaly demanding on the left hand, plus there can be intonation problems if your action is too high as the string stretches that little bit extra to touch the fretboard. I tend to have about 3 mm to remove that clackety clack. I spent ages training my hands to play softly with a low action a la Garry willis, but then I thought what's the point, and now set my basses up to suit me rather than the other way around. Sometimes i wish i wasn't so ham-fisted though

[bigthumb]

I hate low actions. When I have to I take my basses to a techie for any work thats needed and he always sets them up. To be fair he dose a wonderful job but he sets it up to how HE likes basses. (Very fast). So on return home I undo all his good work!

[lowdown]

[quote name='bigthumb' post='483549' date='May 9 2009, 08:29 AM']So on return home I undo all his good work![/quote]

Thats why i dont go to techs any more..
High [very]action here. 45-135 gauge strings
Back in the 70's there were not many good techs around,
so my Jazz basses had actions like crossbows, and i just got on with it,
and my fingers proberly got stronger, i know its not the best way to play.
I get a good full sound and no clanking and buzzing.
I took my Sadowsky over to the Martin at the Bass gallery about 6 years ago.
He told me it was the highest action he had seen...
I think that honour must go to Will Lee,



Garry

[Guest MoJo]

Thank goodness it's not just me

[Kongo]

I like the clacking sound. I was brought up on Iron Maiden as a big influence and I always loved this sound Harris had...and so do many bassists now.
But sometimes players will lower action because "Someone told them to" then play 8th notes HARD with a pick, moving the fretting hand hardly any or at any speed and will complain that notes fret out / choke / they keep hitting the pole peices on their pickups causeing clipping to happen.

I like both but my standard action is medium low. Not too low, not too high.
I find that whereas you CAN play fast with ultra low action, really your weakening your hands. You hands will get used to not working hard and will weaken and you will only be able to play that bass your playing.
Having it medium low gives you the ability to play faster without too much friction BUT still keeps your hands strong.

Also, slapping on ultra low action is rubbish to me for 2 reasons:

1) not enough velocity can be made as the string travels resulting in a weaker attack
2) You need to bounce VERY fast.

BTW as posted before here, my finger training bass is a Yamaha RBX170 which has the action set 3/4" of the board.
No way you can play any sheehan on that but it keeps the fingers strong.

But there is no right or wrong answere.
I just think some people are getting obsessive basses and guitars MUST have low action.
Every sale and review I see someone says "This bass can get really low action no problem" but I bet if you fret around the 15th fret it acually frets out.
It's a feel thing I just with people would try different actions instead of thinking low is the only way to go.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Kongo' post='483667' date='May 9 2009, 01:00 PM']BTW as posted before here, my finger training bass is a Yamaha RBX170 which has the action set 3/4" of the board.[/quote]

3/4"!

By all that's holy!

Edited May 9, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Kiwi]

Well FWIW, I prefer low action and I'm extremely fussy with my necks. Mainly because I've tried graphite necks (which are easy to get low action on when they've been dressed properly) and these have generally set the standard. The key to a good dressing is to pretension the neck to the same bow as when it has strings on it. Then its a simple matter to dress the frets flat.

[Kongo]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='483705' date='May 9 2009, 02:03 PM']3/4"!

By all that's holy! [/quote]

Really is for scale warm up play ONLY though LOL!
It feels like...walking on a bouncy castle...you know, how the ground goes down before you actually land and then kicks back up when you lift up?
It's like that but with fingers.

Flamenco players are renowned for having silly high action...I wonder if it's true and how high?

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='483706' date='May 9 2009, 02:05 PM']Well FWIW, I prefer low action and I'm extremely fussy with my necks. Mainly because I've tried graphite necks (which are easy to get low action on when they've been dressed properly) and these have generally set the standard. The key to a good dressing is to pretension the neck to the same bow as when it has strings on it. Then its a simple matter to dress the frets flat.[/quote]

I'm not at all fussed with neck profile (as long as someone has actually bothered to sand it!), but I agree that a good graphite neck can contribute to a very (playable) low action. My Status Streamline is a case in point. I run the Vigier a little higher, but I think that's to fatten up the sound of the single coils.
Otherwise, I'm fortunate enough to have a few basses at my disposal, and set them up to play to their strengths. The Ibanez is set up very low so it does clatter and grind on [i]glissandos[/i], and I'd use it for heavy rock/ metal. The Warwick Infinity sounds better with a higher action, so I've left it alone!
Most of the others fall somewhere in between. Horses for courses, as they say...

[4000]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='483706' date='May 9 2009, 02:05 PM']Well FWIW, I prefer low action and I'm extremely fussy with my necks.[/quote]

+1 here. Played my old Dolphin Pro 2 the other day which now belongs to a friend and is set up for his style (medium-high action, fair bit of relief - he plays very hard) and I could hardly get a note out of it. I like the neck bang straight with an action of around 1/16th at the 12th E, give or take (my old Ric's a bit higher). Martin Petersen reckons I like my action very low, and he should know.

Edited May 9, 2009 by 4000

[maxrossell]

I just raised my action because I was getting a load of clicking from my pups. It never really occurred to me why I'd want a lower action, apart from the fact that your fingers get less tired. But I play really really hard, and there's no way I can get away with that with low action, I just end up with a load of noise.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='483538' date='May 9 2009, 07:52 AM']I think you're probably in the majority. There's definitely a fatter sound to be had by raising the action.[/quote]
+1

[Mottlefeeder]

I play a 5-string, and the top octave of the low B sounds really choked with a low action. I hadn't noticed, because I didn't use to go there, but I now see it as a problem.

[King Tut]

High action for me - around 3 mm at the end of the fingerboard mainly - to stop the clank of the strings on the fingerboard. Can't help but get carried away when playing live!

[Delberthot]

I've always had to have my action really high as well as I do play really hard a lot of the time. I noticed this one night especially when I got the E string trapped under the top section of my single coil P pickup and its not particularly close to the strings.

By accident, I've stumbled on my perfect setup. When I play 'normally' it gives me a lovely warm fat P bass sound but when I dig in, its closer to a Rickenbacker and has plenty of what i would call good rattle off the frets.

No one has ever been able to set up a bass for me which is why I've been doing it myself for the best part of 20 years.

[CHRISDABASS]

As much as i'd like to use a high action every time i setup my basses higher it just doesn't sound right! im actually starting to think that a little fret buzz is part of my sound! i like the grind/growl of it!

[northstreet]

My set up is to get the action as low as possible, which suits my style of play. My sound typically is biased towards the low end, and I don't play too hard, but at points in some songs you do want to dig in, and imo being able to easily get a clank of the frets helps emphasise that.

[AM1]

[quote name='northstreet' post='484669' date='May 10 2009, 10:12 PM']My set up is to get the action as low as possible, which suits my style of play. My sound typically is biased towards the low end, and I don't play too hard, but at points in some songs you do want to dig in, and imo being able to easily get a clank of the frets helps emphasise that.[/quote]

Hell yeah! You can't beat a bit of fret clanking! I've got my action set so low that when I dig in, I get free percussive effect off the fret bang HAHAHAHA!!!

[The Funk]

I used to play with a really high action with real heavy strings. I quite like low actions now though but if I didn't play right up on the bridge, I'd get loads of unintentional clank.

[alexclaber]

My RIM Custom 5 is currently ~2mm 12th fret G, 3.5mm 12th fret B. Strings are custom gauges - 38-58-78-104-134 - and scale length is 36" so tension is nice and high. I believe there is a wider tonal range and wider dynamic range more easily available with a higher action and higher string tension - and fret clank is always accessible through a switch in technique.

Alex

[51m0n]

Dunno what you all talkin' 'bout.

Low action is where its at for me. Not such that it buzzes if I dig in, but I might get some fret noise, which I think is a really good sound. Having said that my digging in is where most people start..

High action just wastes energy, I dont like fighting my basses. I thought my old bass was sorted action wise till I got the Roscoe, but that has without doubt the best action I've ever played, its not just low, its incredibly consistent across the board.

Personally I've been trying to play lightly and evenly for years now, and its pretty much just how I play. I do sometimes catch myself digging in a little more than I would like, but only if I'm not plugged in. I'm not in Gary WIllis' league on this and I dint use a ramp, but it just seems sensible to not waste energy or stress my hands any more than I have to (RSI is a real indicator that you are over doing it).

I certainly dont have a weedy tone as a result though, its all in the fingers!

As for slapping, well as long as the notes dont choke its fine. I've found that the lower the action the less welly you have to give it to get the same tone, and you can more easily bounce back with a low action than a high action, plus muted left hand slaps are easier, and sound more like muted right hand thumps if your action is low, which is a good thing in my book.

Edited May 11, 2009 by 51m0n

[mr_russ]

[quote name='51m0n' post='484835' date='May 11 2009, 09:34 AM']Dunno what you all talkin' 'bout.

Low action is where its at for me. Not such that it buzzes if I dig in, but I might get some fret noise, which I think is a really good sound. Having said that my digging in is where most people start..

High action just wastes energy, I dont like fighting my basses. I thought my old bass was sorted action wise till I got the Roscoe, but that has without doubt the best action I've ever played, its not just low, its incredibly consistent across the board.

Personally I've been trying to play lightly and evenly for years now, and its pretty much just how I play. I do sometimes catch myself digging in a little more than I would like, but only if I'm not plugged in. I'm not in Gary WIllis' league on this and I dint use a ramp, but it just seems sensible to not waste energy or stress my hands any more than I have to (RSI is a real indicator that you are over doing it).

I certainly dont have a weedy tone as a result though, its all in the fingers!

As for slapping, well as long as the notes dont choke its fine. I've found that the lower the action the less welly you have to give it to get the same tone, and you can more easily bounce back with a low action than a high action, plus muted left hand slaps are easier, and sound more like muted right hand thumps if your action is low, which is a good thing in my book.[/quote]


+1
That's exactly how I feel - I find the tone of many basses really opens up when the action is reasonably low.
I don't go for a stupidly low action, but certainly lower than most.

I spend most of my time at a desk typing so have put the effort into reducing the stress on my hands and wrists

Another problem I find with a high action is that the string height isn't often at all consistent - varying quite a bit across the neck.
The exception for me would be with a precision bass, I find myself setting the action higher on a P than most other basses in order to get the sound I like.