Recommend me an onboard preamp for a P bass

[Dazed]

I’ve been thinking of adding a pre amp to one of my p basses. 
I’ve been looking at Tonestyler type things, anything else out there I should consider?

I don’t really want to add any holes to the pickguard and I’m ok with stack knobs. 

There’s quite a bit of space under the pickguard and within the existing routing. 
Not sure if I’d want to go to the trouble of having a battery and the faff of removing the guard to replace it, or adding a separate new cavity for battery box. 

[Lfalex v1.1]

Given your caveats about routing and battery compartments,  might a good off-board pre-amp (in pedal format) be an idea?

 

I've found that the A channel on my Two Notes Le Bass can nicely tailor a passive bass' tone without any distortion if I keep the gain to sensible levels. 

 

There's plenty of choice,  The vintage Markbass pre and the Genzler Re-EQ both caught my eye.  Perhaps the Two Notes Revolt.

 

At least if it's external, you can try some out together and see what you like. 

[PaulThePlug]

Artec QTP... Passive Tone Switch - By Pass and 4 Position Resistor / Capacitor Combinations... £12

https://spartanmusic.co.uk/products/artec-electronics-sound-controller-circuits

Edited November 9, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[Beedster]

East P-Retro is the gold standard, come up for sale on here occasionally 👍

[LeftyJ]

16 hours ago, Dazed said:

I’ve been thinking of adding a pre amp to one of my p basses. 
I’ve been looking at Tonestyler type things, anything else out there I should consider?

 

I don't think the Tonestyler is a preamp, it's "just" a passive varitone control with a different capacitor on each setting of the rotary switch, for a different style of treble cutoff that changes the character of your instrument - and a neutral setting, of course. It replaces your regular tone control. They're awesome, and offer some very useful sounds.

 

If you want an active onboard EQ, the P-Retro seems like the way to go. You maintain your volume and your regular passive tone, they're just combined in one stacked pot. Rather than a regular two- or three-band EQ it adds two filter modes with a variable frequency control: the top knob gives a mid boost when turned in one direction, or a combined bass/treble boost in the other direction. The bottom knob sets the frequency spectrum. Seems very useful and intuitive to use. 

[No lust in Jazz]

What are you looking to achieve with your tone that an onboard preamp would offer?

 

I've embarked on this particular journey with the Tonestyler. The issue (for me) is that these preamps sound great when the bass is played as a solo instrument, (<edit> I realise that this could be your thing), For me at least, they offer little when the P bass is played as part of an ensemble.

 

I've also spend a lot of time on out-board preamps, a whole different topic.

 

Again, I've been there done that, bought the T-shirt and have been disappointed by its fit. I have three P basses (different builders) that are now, as they left the factory.

 

If I had my time again I'd invest it in trying out different strings, I've found that this has a more pronounced effect on sound

 

Just sayin' - good luck.

Edited November 10, 2023 by No lust in Jazz

[Baloney Balderdash]

6 hours ago, No lust in Jazz said:

What are you looking to achieve with your tone that an onboard preamp would offer?

 

I've embarked on this journey particularly with the Tonestyler. The issue (for me) is that these preamps sound great when the bass is played as a solo instrument (I realise that this could be your thing), For me at least, they offer little when played as part of an ensemble. I've also spend a lot of time on out-board preamps a whole different topic.

 

Again, I've been there done that, bought the T-shirt and have been disappointed by it. I've also been down the route of changing pick-ups and after spending copious amounts of time and money I have three P basses that are now, as they left the factory.

 

If I had my time again I'd invest it in trying out different strings for a more dramatic effect

 

Just sayin' - good luck.

Can't speak for the Tonestyler or preamp swap, as I have no personal experience with it, but my personal experience with swapping pickups doesn't match yours.

 

Swapping pickups in my experience potentially can make a quite substantial difference, of course depending on the specific bass and not least the specific pickups in question, and might potentially take a bass from decent to amazing sounding.

 

But of course as we all have different ears/hearing and personal taste/preferences one persons substantial difference might be another persons neglectable difference.

 

However as always have been suggested, I would probably suggest an off board external preamp instead too.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[No lust in Jazz]

1 hour ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Swapping pickups in my experience potentially can make a quite substantial difference, of course depending on the specific bass and not least the specific pickups in question, and might potentially take a bass from decent to amazing sounding.

 

Yes, it can, but for all of the money and time that I've spent on P bass pick-ups, I've found that essentially they're variations on the same theme. My projects lead me to the revelation that (Aguilar, Norstrand, Fender CS, and EMG) all make P bass pickups that have differing flavours. But each 'flavour' is really only apparent when that bass is played solo. When played as part of a band the difference is pretty much undetectable. This is my experience of the Tonestlyer - a core sound that, tweaks on the rotation of the pot. Somewhere in there will be a favourite. However, the nuances of that favourite tone is lost when the bass  is played live with a band.   

 

My Basses are a 90's off the wall Fender P - A  Moolon P and a Fender CS. For all of the positive press of the Moolon, in a blind test you wouldn't know it from the stock Fender. 

 

This is only my input and there are no absolutes

[Baloney Balderdash]

5 hours ago, No lust in Jazz said:

My Basses are a 90's off the wall Fender P - A  Moolon P and a Fender CS. For all of the positive press of the Moolon, in a blind test you wouldn't know it from the stock Fender. 

I am pretty certain I could tell the difference in a blind test, even if I probably wouldn't be able to to tell which is which (but the has more to do the fact that I am not particular familiar with these pickups in specific).

 

Also there is quite a great amount of quite distinct and notable difference between the tone of let's say a 70's vintage voiced Alnico based P pickup and a DiMarzio ceramic based Model P, or even more pronounced, the DiMarzio Split P or new Relentless Middle P pickup, and I am pretty sure I could tell the difference even in he mix of say a power trio, and possibly even a full band (given of course that the tone hadn't been manipulated further beyond recognition, or been given the "...and justice for all" treatment).

 

Try listening to this for example, a comparison between a vintage voiced stock Fender P pickup and the DiMarzio Model P P pickup:

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[ead]

20 hours ago, Beedster said:

East P-Retro is the gold standard, come up for sale on here occasionally 👍

 

This.  Just slots in plus rechargeable battery.

[Dazed]

7 hours ago, LeftyJ said:

 

I don't think the Tonestyler is a preamp, it's "just" a passive varitone control with a different capacitor on each setting of the rotary switch, for a different style of treble cutoff that changes the character of your instrument - and a neutral setting, of course. It replaces your regular tone control. They're awesome, and offer some very useful sounds.

 

If you want an active onboard EQ, the P-Retro seems like the way to go. You maintain your volume and your regular passive tone, they're just combined in one stacked pot. Rather than a regular two- or three-band EQ it adds two filter modes with a variable frequency control: the top knob gives a mid boost when turned in one direction, or a combined bass/treble boost in the other direction. The bottom knob sets the frequency spectrum. Seems very useful and intuitive to use. 

I remember some time ago seeing some videos someone made with a Warwick Starbass fitted with a Tonestyler and that worked really well but like you said I think they were solo bass and not with any track

behind it. The P retro does sound like a great idea, did I read somewhere they stopped making it?

 

I suppose I’m just looking for ‘more’ from the P bass. I like the sound of it as it is now, I should have but didn’t check the tone pot value as it doesn’t have a huge affect on the sound when rotated either way. It certainly doesn’t add or subtract lots of high end like some passive basses I’ve had before so it maybe just that I need to change. 

 

I think I suffer from ( whatever it’s called) the thing of if I’m playing a P bass I want it to occasionally sound more like a twin humbucking active bass and vice versa….. impossible I know and also why I have far too many basses. 

[Dazed]

Why did East stop making the P Retro?

[ead]

2 minutes ago, Dazed said:

Why did East stop making the P Retro?

 

I don't think they have, but I believe they are having some trouble sourcing bits for it.  Quite a lot of their range went out of stock after the lockdown.  It's still on the website.

[Dazed]

I’ve been looking lately for a dual concentric pot with push pull suitable for volume and passive tone. Anyone seen a supplier for these? 

[ead]

Another option might be EMG P pickup.  Active but feels like a passive with a bit more about it.

 

I have a couple in a 'double P bass' that you are welcome to try as it looks like we are not too far apart.

[chris_b]

I'd keep it passive and replace the pickup and wiring loom.

 

I put a Bartolini pickup in my old Fender and there was a 1000% improvement in tone. Buoyed up by this success I added a preamp and the improvement was 10% at most. I discovered the hard way, the pickup was the main contributor to the tone.

[ead]

On 10/11/2023 at 16:12, chris_b said:

I'd keep it passive and replace the pickup and wiring loom.

 

I put a Bartolini pickup in my old Fender and there was a 1000% improvement in tone. Buoyed up by this success I added a preamp and the improvement was 10% at most. I discovered the hard way, the pickup was the main contributor to the tone.

 

To be fair this is a great shout.  I've got a Bareknuckle '58P pickup in my P bass and it really sings (with a good Kiogon loom of course).

Edited November 11, 2023 by ead

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Dazed said:

Why did East stop making the P Retro?

 

Problems sourcing the battery I believe, either became unavailable or uneconomic, I forget which. Part of it might also be that - dare I say - people tend to like passive Precisions, certainly by comparison with P/Js and J/Js, be it cultural or technical, just seems to be the way it is (compare the number of active Jazzes on the market with active Precisions for example). The shame is that the P-Retro was an engineering masterpiece, beautifully designed and engineered, and given most people don't want to have either modify their bass or remove the whole Precision pickguard, John really did his homework. Beautiful piece of kit, sounds beautiful also.

 

I disagree with some of the comments re pickups above, yes they make a difference but whatever that difference, an active circuit will allow you to fine tune it to perfection. I guess it all comes down to what sound is in your head when you're making the choice. I had a passive bass with two Sims/Enfield Quads, PUPs that can do pretty much anything that can be done with various combinations of 8 traditionally oriented coils, and while the range was impressive, adding a J-Retro really gave it life and added some character that, while it wasn't missing, was less obvious and harder to find when run passive. 

 

But all of this comes down to preferences and experience really 👍

 

I've recently picked up a P-Retro from here that I'm hoping to run in one of my Enfield Quad basses simply because I really like the way it works, much more like a Wal preamp than a more traditional B/M/T boost/cut model. Wonder if I can add Wal to the hard-baked Precision/Jazz/Ray settings of the Enfield 🤔 

[jezzaboy]

I recently bought an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup. Passive and comes with all the wiring, all you do is connect the earth with a crimp thing that comes with it. Sounds great in the house but yet to crank it through a loud amp. 

 

I realise that it`s not an active pre but I have owned a couple of active P basses in the past and ended up playing them in passive mode as I though it sounded better.

Edited November 11, 2023 by jezzaboy

[Dan Dare]

7 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

I recently bought an EMG Geezer Butler P pickup. Passive and comes with all the wiring, all you do is connect the earth with a crimp thing that comes with it. Sounds great in the house but yet to crank it through a loud amp. 

 

I realise that it`s not an active pre but I have owned a couple of active P basses in the past and ended up playing them in passive mode as I though it sounded better.

 

Same here. I prefer passive to active P and J basses. I fitted an East J Retro to my J a few years back. Quality of the product was excellent. Clean/noiseless in use, wide eq range and did all that was claimed of it. However, I felt it made the instrument sound a bit generic. That J bass quality was missing. Eventually, I removed and sold it. I'd suggest using an external pre, rather than a permanently fitted one. I also have an active P Bass Special (P/J). It's versatile, but a bit characterless,