PA leads…..minefield

[martthebass]

Looking for advice on best place for a pair of speakon to female XLR leads. Connecting a 800w rms, 2.4kw peak active sub to a pair of passive tops.

Need 10m lengths, but finding prices all over the place and most made up ones seem to be short lengths. TIA

[jezzaboy]

@martthebass Try Award Session. They will make you any cable quickly, great quality at a decent price. I have been using their cables for years and have never had one fail yet. 

 

Kiss of death I know 

Edited November 9, 2023 by jezzaboy

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You'd best make sure of that hookup. Speakons are used for high level, XLR are used for line and low level. If you're connecting a high level output from a speaker to the line level input of a powered sub the result would be magic smoke. If you're sending the low frequency output of a sub amp to tops they wouldn't care for that either. Making your own isn't much more difficult than changing a set of strings using all Neutrik solder-less connectors. 

[tauzero]

46 minutes ago, martthebass said:

Looking for advice on best place for a pair of speakon to female XLR leads. Connecting a 800w rms, 2.4kw peak active sub to a pair of passive tops.

Need 10m lengths, but finding prices all over the place and most made up ones seem to be short lengths. TIA

 

I suspect you'll need XLR-XLR leads and a pair of active tops.

[martthebass]

Connecting this using its active crossover to a pair of HK pro 12 passive tops

 

https://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj016Cy-beCAxXmBgYAHRbGAnUYABALGgJ3cw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9Negsvm3ggMV5gYGAB0WxgJ1EAQYAiABEgIHYPD_BwE&sig=AOD64_31uw0TifItQFOHnPS-5MnPEOeR8g&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiL9Zmy-beCAxXlW0EAHT3LDUgQwg8oAHoECAUQEw&adurl=

 

 

[obbm]

The output of crossover in your subs is Line Level and your tops are passive so between the two you are going to need a power amplifier or change the tops to active ones. 

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

Connecting this using its active crossover to a pair of HK pro 12 passive tops

 

https://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj016Cy-beCAxXmBgYAHRbGAnUYABALGgJ3cw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9Negsvm3ggMV5gYGAB0WxgJ1EAQYAiABEgIHYPD_BwE&sig=AOD64_31uw0TifItQFOHnPS-5MnPEOeR8g&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiL9Zmy-beCAxXlW0EAHT3LDUgQwg8oAHoECAUQEw&adurl=

 

 

 

From the Behringer website: "and the built-in stereo crossover makes this subwoofer ideally suited for use with any of our active 2-way loudspeakers".

[martthebass]

11 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

From the Behringer website: "and the built-in stereo crossover makes this subwoofer ideally suited for use with any of our active 2-way loudspeakers".

Yep, having to consider ‘options’.

Short term may run line outputs to sub and power the tops from the Dynacord power section. Not ideal as I want to use the xover. Was aiming not to destroy the HK Pro12 tops with the drummer’s electronic kit……

[sandy_r]

6 hours ago, martthebass said:

Yep, having to consider ‘options’.

Short term may run line outputs to sub and power the tops from the Dynacord power section. Not ideal as I want to use the xover. Was aiming not to destroy the HK Pro12 tops with the drummer’s electronic kit……

 

If you want to use this as a Xover, and you only have passive tops then your only option is to add amplification between the DR18SUB  and the tops (a 'flat' 2-channel Class D would do, since the Behringer is providing the filtering - check out the Pulse Audio range, from Pulse.../Farnell/CPC)

 

As others have pointed out, the DR18SUB is Line In, Line Out signal levels, not speaker drive levels - no Speakons involved - at either end

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by sandy_r

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, tauzero said:

active

Keyword.

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, martthebass said:

Yep, having to consider ‘options’.

Short term may run line outputs to sub and power the tops from the Dynacord power section. Not ideal as I want to use the xover. Was aiming not to destroy the HK Pro12 tops with the drummer’s electronic kit……

Pretty sure you're good....

Edited November 10, 2023 by Downunderwonder

[Downunderwonder]

Post some Dyna links. Pretty darn sure, from the last time I was sleuthing  for someone, the main mix send to the sub can come back as a main mix insert all crossed over for you to speaker out to your passive tops. You just need some XLR cables.

[martthebass]

30 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Post some Dyna links. Pretty darn sure, from the last time I was sleuthing  for someone, the main mix send to the sub can come back as a main mix insert all crossed over for you to speaker out to your passive tops. You just need some XLR cables.

 

This one D.

https://products.dynacord.com/na/en/powermate-600-3/

[Downunderwonder]

Your master XLR outs go to your subs and you need some XLR to TRS leads to come back to the power amp inputs with the highpass from the subs. Balancing the tops to subs might mean turning them down at the sub amps. A little Heath Robinson but should work well enough.

[Downunderwonder]

Your speakon outs of mixer go to your tops btw. Not sure it that was made clear already, just to be sure.

 

Reading back, only one sub so I guess you are stuck with a mono mix.

[Chienmortbb]

11 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

XLR are used for line and low level.

XLRs were used by a number of manufacturers for speakers, to overcome the current and mechanical limitations of 1/4 jacks.

 

 

[martthebass]

1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

Your speakon outs of mixer go to your tops btw. Not sure it that was made clear already, just to be sure.

 

Reading back, only one sub so I guess you are stuck with a mono mix.

Cheers, not worried about a mono mix, we only put vox and drums trough the PA.

What’s a XLR to TRS lead, I haven’t come across those?

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, martthebass said:

Cheers, not worried about a mono mix, we only put vox and drums trough the PA.

What’s a XLR to TRS lead, I haven’t come across those?

 

You'll also see it described as stereo jack to XLR. Tip-ring-sleeve jack, with (I think) tip to +, ring to -, sleeve to common/ground. Allows you to use balanced cables with jack connectors.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

XLRs were used by a number of manufacturers for speakers, to overcome the current and mechanical limitations of 1/4 jacks.

 

 

That was many decades ago. It was so long ago that XLR had not yet become the standard for microphones and interconnects. Once that happened they stopped using them on amps and speakers, lest people plug connect low level and high level devices in error. That concern didn't stop us from using 1/4" connectors for both signal and speakers on our amps, but until Speakon came along there wasn't much choice.

[Chienmortbb]

It was about 30 years ago Bill. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Anyone still doing that 30 years ago was not adhering to established protocols. Not that the electric instrument industry has ever given that much mind. 🤥

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Anyone still doing that 30 years ago was not adhering to established protocols. Not that the electric instrument industry has ever given that much mind. 🤥

I agree but XLRs are rated at 10 amps whereas many jacks are rated much lower and XLRs are locking.

[Downunderwonder]

In NZ the speaker XLR stayed in use quite awhile. Loads of old domestic gear still using them. Having female plugs both ends of the leads at least reduces the chances of making a wrong connection.

[TimR]

On 10/11/2023 at 13:13, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That concern didn't stop us from using 1/4" connectors for both signal and speakers on our amps

 

I had this very conversation just before Christmas.  Trying to explain to someone that you use an "instrument cable" and not a "speaker lead" between a mixer and a powered speaker. He said he'd been doing that for years, and yes "You must always use speaker leads for speakers".

 

Might go someway to explain why we have so many issues with our powered monitor speakers. 

[warwickhunt]

On 10/11/2023 at 17:02, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Anyone still doing that 30 years ago was not adhering to established protocols. Not that the electric instrument industry has ever given that much mind. 🤥

 

If memory serves me (often doesn't) Trace Elliot used XLR on their cabs for quite a few years.