Analogue pedals ≈ vinyl?

[SumOne]

I hate to admit it, but I think digital multi fx pedals are at the point of making seperate analogue pedals feel similar to vinyl records vs digital. Analogue will always have a cool factor, some will say it sounds/feels better, and collectors like it, but it'll become obsolete technology for working musicians (only a tiny % of DJs still use vinyl, but sales are still strong for the collectors). 

 

All I need is: Tuner/mute, line selector to switch between Basses, Drive, EQ, Compressor (and pedalboard and power brick). So I thought - surely I don't need my multi fx for that, I'll sell it and go back to individual pedals with footswitch for each, no menus, can see everything that's going on, simple, and a bit more 'soul' and potentially better sound to them.

 

.....But even with these minimal needs I think it is costing me more, adding bulk, more potential for error via things like loose cables or dials accidentally moved. And that's before trying to do simple extra things like go from a punky part of a song into a Reggae middle 8 which needs an instant change in EQ and Drive, so pushing two pedals at once - a loop switcher would be useful, and ideally needs a second EQ pedal. It's at this point I'm eying up multi fx again! 

 

What do you reckon? Are Analogue pedals becoming the impractical costly preserve of Internet forum collectors to show off to each other?! 

[clauster]

I'm in the same boat.  I have the Boss GT-1000 Core and am barely scratching the surface.  90% of the time I'm on a patch with comp and preamp only.  The other 10% has some fuzz.  I keep thinking I should sell it to someone who'd make better use of its capabilities and replace with discreet pedals, pedalboard, PSU etc.  But then, it's going to cost a lot more than I'd get for it even if I just replace with the Boss comp, tuner and Pre. 

[MichaelDean]

I think multis have so much room for doing other things as well. We've been recording recently. I didn't like my original tone, so using my GX-100 and the original un-effected bass track, I could sit there and find the best effect for the song, it then acted as a re-amping box to send the signal back out to my amp to fiddle with that. I then recorded the DI out from there to put into a cab sim. Oh, and the intro clean guitar has too much hiss? I can re-amp that into my terror stamp just in the effects loop. Ok, a re-amping box isn't mega money, but it's an extra thing I don't need to spend money on and have in the house because of my multi. 

[jimbobothy]

…. multifx are probably more practical, but I really do prefer separate analogue pedals! I’ve got a reasonable collection to now have a ‘multi fx’ situation where I choose between different types of compressor, drive, eq, modulation etc.

 

Only thing is each time I want to change something it takes a little bit longer than on a multifx ha ha 😆

[LukeFRC]

Big difference is the interface 

 

vinyl - I have to get up and flip the record after 4-5 songs 

Digital - I can simply create playlists of whatever I want and have effortless control

 

digital multi effects- small changes mean menu diving, working out gain staging through a series of digital effects bottom press button press, oh balls I’ll get the laptop out and do it on that 

analogue - turn knob till it sounds right

 

 

not saying digital effects won’t crack it, but the in my limited experience the UIs aren’t quite intuitive enough yet… 

That said it depends on what you’re doing, what I was trying to with my hx stomp was limited enough that indeed individual analogue effects were simpler and nicer.

for electric guitar where the amp/cab is more critical to the sound of the instrument- I think I would have kept it

[bartelby]

I've never heard a digital overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedal I've liked.

 

 

Nor modulation, come to think of it.
 

[BigRedX]

These days any decent multi-effects unit has a means of editing it using a computer. The days of menu diving (apart from the occasional rehearsal room tweak) should be long over.

 

I've said before the convenience of knowing that every time I select a particular patch on my digital multi-effects unit it will sound exactly as I was expecting far outweighs any supposed sonic superiority of individual analogue pedals.

[MrDinsdale]

I love multifx and dedicated pedals (analog or digital).

 

The big brand multifx in particular are all incredible quality and stack up perfectly against their physical pedals with the right settings. If they happen to have the things you need then the convenience is hard to beat.

 

Personally I prefer a hybrid approach, I’m yet to find a preamp I like as much as the Capo or a drive I like as much as the Halberd on a multifx so combining them in fx loops on the gt1000core is the perfect compromise.

[SumOne]

12 hours ago, bartelby said:

I've never heard a digital overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedal I've liked.

 

 

Nor modulation, come to think of it.
 

 

Yeah I've never had a digital drive that sounds quite as good as analogue thing it's emulating, have had some good different sounds from them though. The ones in the new Boss multi fx are good, adding other fx blocks and played through an Amp/Cab I could definitely live with them.

 

I find modulation and delays and EQ to be things digital does really well so would happily ditch alanalogue pedals of them. And some digital compressors like the Atlas compare really well with analogue counterparts. 

 

Digital Envelope Filters still tend to sound bad though - unless it's Source Audio who show that it is possible to do well. 

 

I think the main downside to digital is the interface, I expect (hope) that'll be the next big focus for manufacturers. 

[itu]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

Digital Envelope Filters still tend to sound bad though - unless it's Source Audio who show that it is possible to do well.

But Source Audios are analogue with digital interface, no?

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 13/11/2023 at 10:17, itu said:

But Source Audios are analogue with digital interface, no?

No, they are all digital.

 

Also while digital pedal these days aren't necessarily lesser than analog pedals in any possible way, I don't think analog pedals will ever become obsolete.

 

That said, I have seriously considered selling all my individual pedal, which by far predominantly are analog, and getting the new HoTone Ampero II Stage multi effect, which features a triple-core CPU, independent ESS Sabre AD/DA, and 5" touchscreen (and of course supporting 3rd party IR files (2048 sampling points, that is double of most other, even most so called high end, multi effects and dedicated IR loaders), and parallel signal chain processing) :

 

https://www.hotoneaudio.com/products/multi-effects/Ampero-II-Stage

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[MrDinsdale]

If we're talking analog vs digital then there are plenty of examples out there of amazing sounding digital effects, some almost perfect emulations of their real counterparts. Certainly enough that it would be virtually impossible to tell in a live environment.

 

If were talking multifx vs dedicated pedals then for me its mostly down to to if the all-in-one unit has all the options I want. There is so much variety in the dedicated pedal world that cater for anything you want, particularly useful when you want to go a little off the beaten track of Tube Screamer, Klon and SVT emulations etc. That being said stuff like the GT1000 or Dwarf with all the signal routing options lets you combine and compose the effects in ways which wouldn't really be practical in a real board to create some really interesting fx. If you're happy with the effects there or willing to compromise a little then its a hard sell not to go on the multi route if you're utilising enough fx to justify the cost.

 

PS The MOD Dwarf has some of the best modulation stuff I've heard on a multifx unit, some really out there stuff too thats much more in the quirky boutique realm.

[ahpook]

An aside: One barrier to me using multi-fx/modelling boxes is my eyesight.

 

I have to switch glasses/remove them to read, so adjusting anything via a screen is a pain, either by PC or screens on pedals on the floor. I just juggle glasses all the time !

 

Sitting just using a screen is fine, but mixed stuff is hard.

 

Knobs on traditional pedals are just easier for me.

 

 

[Greg Edwards69]

Two thoughts occur.

 

1. Going digital with the Helix has allowed me to leave the amp at home (actually, I don't own a bass amp and cab anymore - just an FRFR speaker). I can get "that" Ampeg sound, consistently, anywhere I can plug into a PA system. And it's less gear to carry. Sure there are ways of doing this analogue with preamps, eq's and cab sims, but a single digital multi-fx is so much easier and more tweakable.
2. The audience doesn't care. If it sounds good, it is good. Most non-musicians really couldn't care less if you're using a vintage tube amp and hand-wired stompboxes or a digital modeller.

 

That said... I'm considering getting an analogue device, such as Sansamp Bass Fly Rig as a backup. If the Helix craps out in the middle of a gig, I'd rather have something that's "plug and play" and quick to dial in, than another digital device that might need tweaking for the room.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[Ramsay777]

Ian Allison has nearly had me sold on. HX Stomp numerous times but the reality is i'll probably get lost in all the features and lose interest.

 

Not too keen on the idea of having to use an app or PC to get the most of of my effects either, fair play to the folk that do though!

 

 

[itu]

On 13/11/2023 at 11:17, itu said:

But Source Audios are analogue with digital interface, no?

No, but I think Chase Bliss are. I mixed the brands, getting so damn old.

[ped]

On 13/11/2023 at 09:49, MrDinsdale said:

If we're talking analog vs digital then there are plenty of examples out there of amazing sounding digital effects, some almost perfect emulations of their real counterparts.

 

I have massively mixed experiences with digital effects, but comparing the 're-issue' Mutron III+ (digital) with the original really highlighted how little the distinction matters. Despite what people say online, the reissue is capable if getting as near as identical sounds as the original, although it doesn't do the extreme ends of the peak quite so well. In fact I prefer it in many ways, given the extra flexibility from the micro switches inside meaning the 'down' filter is more usable for me.

 

As we all know, it's far too simplistic to say that digital is worse than analogue because there are so many different levels of both; I've had breathtaking digital tech and some which I actively dislike, same goes for analogue. What's definitely true though is that the perception always favours analogue, and the prices/values reflect that - which can be advantageous or not depending on where you sit on the value chain!

 

I'm wondering if people's experience of digital is mostly via multi effects, which are often a compromise at the cheaper end of the scale both in terms of usability and processing power.

[Al Krow]

On 12/11/2023 at 18:58, bartelby said:

I've never heard a digital overdrive/distortion/fuzz pedal I've liked.

Nor modulation, come to think of it.

 

I'm managing to get pretty good dirt with both a Xotic BB and B7K sims on a budget Zoom B1-4. It's not perfect, but "good enough", but then I've still not managed to find an analogue pedal that is a perfect dirt, particularly when dealing with different gigging basses. 

 

Where I think multis still struggle are:

- pitch shift (but then so do analgoue pedals tbf);

- filter and synth sounds (unexpectedly I've found the budget B1-4 seems to stack up pretty well here against more expensive rivals eg Helix Stomp). 

[SumOne]

I suppose there is quite a distinction between Individual Digital pedals and Multi-FX. 

 

Only a minority of purists still use analogue Tuners. And certian things like the Boss CEB-3 have gone from Analogue to Digital while keeping the same interface and very few people can tell/care about the difference. And some things like long delays with a pedal pretty much have to be Digital.

 

One issue for me is when individual Digital pedals add a lot of functionality just because they can, but the interface isn't really improved so it over-complicates for live use e.g. 'long hold' a small button to access a second parameter on a knob, meaning that the user isn't sure where either parameter is set. 

 

And similar for Multi-FX, they feel to me like they could be amazing but the main issue is the interface and foolproof live usability when you want to do any more than just click between presets. For me, I want a really clear footproof way of 'what you see is what you get' in stomp mode, perhaps just for a few basic things (Compressor, EQ, Drive) but I'm yet to find a digital multi-fx that does that as well as just looking down at those few individual pedals. I like the style of the cheap Zoom B3n for making it quite obvious what each footswitch will do when you stomp on it and what the parameters are set to - and being able to quickly turn a dial to make a specific change, give that sort of simple view format a Helix makeover with assignable coloured footswitches and a small TC Plethora type screen for each effect block and it'd be a winner for me in terms of interface:

 

Hopefully improved usability/interface is the next big thing for digital multi-fx as I think they are pretty much there with most of the sounds (they need to catch up with Source Audio's digital filters/octave/synth though and put them into a multi-fx).

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SumOne

[Al Krow]

Played on a small stage at Kingston market with my band last night. 

 

Rig:

(my kit): Yamaha bass --> Zoom B1-4 -->

(venue:) Behringer XAir desk -> Alto TX210s 

 

Zoom B1-4 used as tuner, clean patch (with "Presence" to aid cutting through) and Xotic BB drive. 

 

Super simple / cheap as chips set up but did the job! Had a complete blast playing with the band. 

[MrDinsdale]

51 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I suppose there is quite a distinction between Individual Digital pedals and Multi-FX. 

 

Only a minority of purists still use analogue Tuners. And certian things like the Boss CEB-3 have gone from Analogue to Digital while keeping the same interface and very few people can tell/care about the difference. And some things like long delays with a pedal pretty much have to be Digital.

 

One issue for me is when individual Digital pedals add a lot of functionality just because they can, but the interface isn't really improved so it over-complicates for live use e.g. 'long hold' a small button to access a second parameter on a knob, meaning that the user isn't sure where either parameter is set. 

 

And similar for Multi-FX, they feel to me like they could be amazing but the main issue is the interface and foolproof live usability when you want to do any more than just click between presets. For me, I want a really clear footproof way of 'what you see is what you get' in stomp mode, perhaps just for a few basic things (Compressor, EQ, Drive) but I'm yet to find a digital multi-fx that does that as well as just looking down at those few individual pedals. I like the style of the cheap Zoom B3n for making it quite obvious what each footswitch will do when you stomp on it and what the parameters are set to - and being able to quickly turn a dial to make a specific change, give that sort of simple view format a Helix makeover with assignable cloloured footswitches and a TC Plethora type screen for each effect block and it'd be a winner for me in terms of interface:

 

Hopefully improved usability/interface is the next big thing for digital multi-fx as I think they are pretty much there with most of the sounds (they need to catch up with Source Audio's digital filters/octave/synth though and put them into a multi-fx).

 

 

Interface is a tricky one I think because it’s so subjective. I’ve always hated touch screens, find them inaccurate especially when your all hot and sweaty at a gig but I know a lot of people love them. The QC seems like something I could work with, nice mix of touch navigation, minimal UI but tactile dials for adjustment etc. 

 

Im a big fan of the GT1000 just because it’s so quick to wiz around the menus, even if it’s not the prettiest interface. 

[BigRedX]

Anything digital should also have user programmable memories, MIDI with proper DIN sockets and not some propriety connector/interface that requires yet another device to convert it to proper MIDI, and program mapping so I don't have to reorder my patches to match my other MIDI devices. Anything less isn't worth the effort no matter how great it might sound.

[SumOne]

37 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Played on a small stage at Kingston market with my band last night. 

 

Rig:

(my kit): Yamaha bass --> Zoom B1-4 -->

(venue:) Behringer XAir desk -> Alto TX210s 

 

Zoom B1-4 used as tuner, clean patch (with "Presence" to aid cutting through) and Xotic BB drive. 

 

Super simple / cheap as chips set up but did the job! Had a complete blast playing with the band. 

 

Nice!

 

I keep owning B1-Four's and then foolishly selling them. They're better than many expensive multi-fx or individual pedals for home practice (more portable, drum loops, aux in) and there are a few Band practice sessions where it would have been really useful (especially when I've had to lug about a pedalboard on public transport, and when the drummer is late!), and even if I just add it to my live board for HPF it's cheaper than most HPF pedals, and it'd do as a backup. I'm going to get one again, probably for about the 4th time!

[Greg Edwards69]

Interface interaction is certainly a valid point. However, since switching from pedals to the Helix, I find I don't need to tweak individual effects so much as I used to. It's taken time, but it's all pretty much dialled in and consistent from venue to venue. If I do need different settings for the same effect, that's where snapshots come into their own - again, already dialled in and ready to go.

[SumOne]

3 hours ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

Interface interaction is certainly a valid point. However, since switching from pedals to the Helix, I find I don't need to tweak individual effects so much as I used to. It's taken time, but it's all pretty much dialled in and consistent from venue to venue. If I do need different settings for the same effect, that's where snapshots come into their own - again, already dialled in and ready to go.

 

I've found multi-fx to be great at setting presets to get things sounding just how I want them at home,  and can get really creative and do stuff that isn't possible without having a massive amount of individual pedals and complex loop switchers. 

 

My issue tends to be when I'm playing with a band and seemingly simple spur-of-the-moment changes become a bit of a faff. It's fine if things all work out with presets, but feels a bit boxed in. 

 

One other thing is that a drum cymbal stand fell on my pedalboard of Boss Compact pedals the other day, I didn't even bother to check they were alright as I just knew they would be. I'm not sure I'd be that blasé with a multi-fx unit with things like touch screen, none seem quite as bombproof as tough individual pedals.

 

....but I am contradicting myself here! I do feel that Analogue individual pedals vs Digital multi-fx is already pretty much something akin to DJs using Vinyl vs Digital. I reckon a few interface improvements will seal the deal and Analogue pedals will be the preserve of collectors and enthusiasts.  

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by SumOne