Analogue pedals ≈ vinyl?

[MichaelDean]

I think there will always be the people who won't want to learn a new interface though, no matter how simple it might be. They're happy twiddling knobs and that's that.

 

Plus the people who want to create their own pedals and sounds - with the exeption of the MOD Dwarf, you can't code your own effect modules for your multi. I've made one or two pedals from a schematic. It can be equal measures fun and frustrating, and relatively inexpensive. And the people who want to buy hand made things.

 

There's also people who convince themselve that because they just use the one patch, they need to sell it, saying they only use "10% of it's potential" (or similar) as if it's wasted on them. I feel that if it does what you need at a price you find acceptable and in a form factor that suits your use, it's a perfectly valid choice. I'll never forget the guitarist I used to play with who turned up with a Helix one day, saying he was tired of patch cables breaking and just wanted something where that wouldn't happen. A few months later, he got rid saying he wasn't using it to it's fullest potential. First practice with the new traditional board and he spent 30-40 minutes of practice trying to get the damn thing to work because of a dodgy patch lead.

 

Maybe there'd be a digital pedal revolution where everyone starts using them? But then give it a few years and there'd be a resurgence of musicians being cool and "discovering" pedals again.

 

What I think I'm trying to get at, is that I don't think that traditional pedals are going anywhere anytime soon.

Edited November 17, 2023 by MichaelDean
spelling

[Greg Edwards69]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

I've found multi-fx to be great at setting presets to get things sounding just how I want them at home,  and can get really creative and do stuff that isn't possible without having a massive amount of individual pedals and complex loop switchers. 

 

My issue tends to be when I'm playing with a band and seemingly simple spur-of-the-moment changes become a bit of a faff. It's fine if things all work out with presets, but feels a bit boxed in. 

 

One other thing is that a drum cymbal stand fell on my pedalboard of Boss Compact pedals the other day, I didn't even bother to check they were alright as I just knew they would be. I'm not sure I'd be that blasé with a multi-fx unit with things like touch screen, none seem quite as bombproof as tough individual pedals.

 

Each to their own I guess. Our needs and the types of gigs we play are probably quite different. Heck, I don't even bring an amp/cab anymore - just straight into the PA with IEMs.  My main preset is versatile enough to cover 90% of what I play, and anything thrown my way. The other 10% has specialist presets for those specific needs. But that's just me, someone else may find it restricting.

 

I have a thick screen protector from "Gear by CEBA" on my Helix LT for this reason. They also make versions to cover the entire top surface of the unit to offer even greater protection.  But regarding Boss stompboxes, I hear you.  If I was in a different band, out on the road and only needed a couple of specific effects, I'd probably use them instead of a digital device. More road worthy and easily replaceable.

 

And hey, if it's good enough for Billy Sheehan to use live in place of his old analogue rack gear...

 

1 hour ago, MichaelDean said:

There's also people who convince themselve that because they just use the one patch, they need to sell it, saying they only use "10% of it's potential" (or similar) as if it's wasted on them. I feel that if it does what you need at a price you find acceptable and in a form factor that suits your use, it's a perfectly valid choice. I'll never forget the guitarist I used to play with who turned up with a Helix one day, saying he was tired of patch cables breaking and just wanted something where that wouldn't happen. A few months later, he got rid saying he wasn't using it to it's fullest potential. First practice with the new traditional board and he spent 30-40 minutes of practice trying to get the damn thing to work because of a dodgy patch lead.

Yeah, I don't get that either. I don't use the full potential of my phone, computer or camera either, but I have them set up just the way I like them to do what I want them to do. The Helix et al is more than just the amp and effect models. It's the complete package of routing options, crossovers, global eq, and discrete control over each output that makes it ideal for me.

 

I do wish it had Bluetooth though!

Edited November 17, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[BigRedX]

I have a separate Preset (patch) on my Helix for every song that both of my bands do often several Snapshots within that Preset. On top of that all the Preset and Snapshot changes are being controlled by the computer that runs our back tracks and it also shows the running status of the backing track via the colour of the Tap Tempo LED. This means that I am probably make more use of the various functions than most on here, but I reckon I'm still only using 10% of what the Helix is capable of, as there are hundreds of amp, cab and effects sims that I simply have no use for.

 

Should I sell it because I'm not using enough of the features? Of course not. Even if I found that I only needed one sound for everything both of by bands did, I'd still be using the Helix because it gives me "my sound" at the push of a button. Besides if I find myself in a different band then I might start exploring the functions I haven't used yet.

[LukeFRC]

57 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I have a separate Preset (patch) on my Helix for every song that both of my bands do often several Snapshots within that Preset. On top of that all the Preset and Snapshot changes are being controlled by the computer that runs our back tracks and it also shows the running status of the backing track via the colour of the Tap Tempo LED. This means that I am probably make more use of the various functions than most on here, but I reckon I'm still only using 10% of what the Helix is capable of, as there are hundreds of amp, cab and effects sims that I simply have no use for.

 

Should I sell it because I'm not using enough of the features? Of course not. Even if I found that I only needed one sound for everything both of by bands did, I'd still be using the Helix because it gives me "my sound" at the push of a button. Besides if I find myself in a different band then I might start exploring the functions I haven't used yet.

Forgive me - but I think the turn of phrase “only using 10% of what it can do” is a turn of phrase rather than statistically accurate analysis.

 

I had a hx stomp, I could replace what I was using for with 3 pedals (one of which was a tuner) - I think my use case is closer to what people mean than yours!  

I possibly should have kept it

[ped]

Seems like the conversation has turned into analogue vs digital multi fx. Sort of proved my point and I’m sure that bad experiences with digital multis puts people off digital entirely, which is a shame. It’s a bit like being put off cereal because you tried dry weetabix

[Al Krow]

10 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

Nice!

 

I keep owning B1-Four's and then foolishly selling them. They're better than many expensive multi-fx or individual pedals for home practice (more portable, drum loops, aux in) and there are a few Band practice sessions where it would have been really useful (especially when I've had to lug about a pedalboard on public transport, and when the drummer is late!), and even if I just add it to my live board for HPF it's cheaper than most HPF pedals, and it'd do as a backup. I'm going to get one again, probably for about the 4th time!

 

Well I reckon I've had four, too! But that's because I got one for a mate and at one point had 3 for own use (one at the heart of a small pedal board, another as a standalone "board" (as per last night's gig) and a third... well not sure why I had that one 😅. They are as cheap as chips if you buy them used, and as you've outlined can be ridiculously useful for money. 

 

But clearly anyone getting 4 has got to B1... 

[SumOne]

16 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I think the turn of phrase “only using 10% of what it can do” is a turn of phrase rather than statistically accurate analysis.

 

I usually see that phrase when someone is selling a multi fx and partly read it as doublespeak for: 'the unit is too complex/inconvenient for me to use 90% of it' .... or '90% of what it does is unnecessary (and more costly than individual pedals) for a bass player'. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

I usually see that phrase when someone is selling a multi fx and partly read it as doublespeak for: 'the unit is too complex/inconvenient for me to use 90% of it' .... or '90% of what it does is unnecessary (and more costly than individual pedals) for a bass player'. 

What is unnecessary to one person however might be extremely useful to another person though, and I am pretty sure it means exactly what it says.

 

As in "does more than you will ever need".

 

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I have a separate Preset (patch) on my Helix for every song that both of my bands do often several Snapshots within that Preset. On top of that all the Preset and Snapshot changes are being controlled by the computer that runs our back tracks and it also shows the running status of the backing track via the colour of the Tap Tempo LED. This means that I am probably make more use of the various functions than most on here, but I reckon I'm still only using 10% of what the Helix is capable of, as there are hundreds of amp, cab and effects sims that I simply have no use for.

 

Should I sell it because I'm not using enough of the features? Of course not. Even if I found that I only needed one sound for everything both of by bands did, I'd still be using the Helix because it gives me "my sound" at the push of a button. Besides if I find myself in a different band then I might start exploring the functions I haven't used yet.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[SumOne]

51 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

What is unnecessary to one person however might be extremely useful to another person though, and I am pretty sure it means exactly what it says.

 

As in "does more than you will ever need".

 

 

 

 

 'might as well keep it as does what you need and much more' is fine until you consider cost, size, sturdiness and complexity . If you only need tuner, and simple eq and drive, then a quad cortex is perhaps not the best choice. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by SumOne

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

 

They also tend to cost more than the alternative if you are only using it for a couple of things, so for some people it makes perfect sense to sell if they are only using 10% of it. It's like selling a bus because you don't need to transport a football team around when a car will do the job you need cheaper. 

 

Unless you're happy to settle for the budget one I've previously mentioned - £45 to £50 used. But tbf I reckon I use perhaps 70% to 80% of what it can do, so maybe that's a best of both worlds sceanrio?

 

Also maybe we're thinking of what these can do in the wrong way? I tend to think of making use of features rather than every variation of that feature? E.g. using it for any type of patch is making use of its simulation capability i.e. you don't have to use every patch going!

 

The features that come to mind are:

• bespoke patch creation 
• being able to chain patches in sequence in any order
• software editing of patches and being able to copy these across as the starting point for variations of a patch 
• tuner
• looper
• global EQ
• DI out
• headphone amp
• drum machine
• scenes / snapshots
• parallel path routing 
• IR modelling

Not all multi-fx's will have all of the above features.

[MrDinsdale]

I was guilty of that “I only use 10%” thing when I sold my GT1k Core, tried to recreate exactly what I could do with their existing pedals without really exploring what other stuff it had to offer.

 

Almost immediately after selling I got a big urge to experiment with more modulation and time based fx. Really enjoying having one integrated in my board again 🙌

[bassman7755]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:53, clauster said:

I'm in the same boat.  I have the Boss GT-1000 Core and am barely scratching the surface.  90% of the time I'm on a patch with comp and preamp only.  The other 10% has some fuzz.  I keep thinking I should sell it to someone who'd make better use of its capabilities and replace with discreet pedals, pedalboard, PSU etc.  But then, it's going to cost a lot more than I'd get for it even if I just replace with the Boss comp, tuner and Pre. 

 

I get the sense of underutilisation of a multi effects but it is irrational because the marginal cost of adding extra effects to a digital unit is tiny so of course they are going to thow in everything they think anyone might concievably want just like most phones and computer come with loads of stuff on them that most people never use. Digital units that do just one effect are actually the illogical choice because they will have generic DSP hardware internally anyway - just running one effect instead of many. I realise the OP was talking about analogue seperates but I see no reason to use analogue audio processing in this day and age (with the possible exception of valve power amps, but even there its getting iffy).

Edited November 18, 2023 by bassman7755